Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Building a Bolt Action

[CBlack]

Most rifles can be turned into a tack driver, some will just cost more than others. IMHO your best bang for your buck will be the Rem 700 or savage 111 rifle and have it blue printed by a gunsmith. Your looking at 1500 -2000 for the rifle. Optics will be where most of your is spent. However I did see an article of an individual who built a Savage based rifle for 1000.

Yeah, but it isn't as fun!

 

[HHhuntitall]

Ok, I'll have to retract that I'm a dealer for the Jewell triggers... . They'll sell to anyone, but they give you a discount based on your order. If you order $1000 (IIRC), you get an 8% discount, and I think 12% at $1500. I usually keep at least a dozen in stock at all times for Remington and Winchester, with and without safeties. Timney will sell to anyone as well, but I'm not sure on their pricing if they give quantity discounts..... I don't sell near as many of them as I do the Jewell's. If I go to the Oklahoma regionals or Nationals, I usually sell at least 3-4 at practice on Friday. I can do a little better than Brownell's, usually, just with the volume discount. And I love to help out a fellow shooter that's not an A-hole.



AI stocks are WAYYY overpriced, IMO. I haven't used one in a long time. They look, handle, and hold up nice, but they're dang heavy, and for competition, you have wieght limits in certain classes... . Also, the dealers I've dealt with are usually A-holes... . again, that's why I'm a McMillan dealer... . McMillan recently went through reorganization and refinancing, both of which didn't help their already overloaded office staff... ... I've had good dealings with them, and they're pretty nice most days, but they are so overworked, they sometimes flub something up... . I had a stock that didn't even get ordered ealier this year... . Cost me a customer... . But it's never their fault... .



I've used both in rifle builds... Some guys I used to work with swore by the AI stocks... They carried them at work and used the heck out of them, and never had a problem..... Pretty handy when piling in a truck to fold the stock over and stash it for more room. They didn't really shoot much, but carried them every day. Can't say as they were that good of shots to begin with... . My AR-10 . 308 would outshoot them anyday, and it was only so-so accurate..... Good to 7-800yds, I guess... . It could have been them, too.



Another stock company you might look at is Manners stocks... . Tom Manners makes a good stock, too!! A bit high, IMO, but I don't sell a lot of them, so they don't give me a discount... . I met him years ago and got one of his stocks for a . 50 I wanted to build... . I think that's where he started. Recently, I got some stocks for an F-class rifle I built, and sold one to two other people, and my Dad. They're a bit heavier than a McMillan... sometimes, that's a problem... . But they make folders, too. http://mannersstocks.com/ Just a suggestion. Choate builds nice composite stocks, too. Tough as a boot, fairly priced, but not quite at nice as the AI stocks... . The owners are super nice. I usually set up a table pretty close to their booth at Tulsa every Spring, and when it's slow, we talk about their operations... . Usually one of the engineers is there, as well as the owner... . http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/category/RFS



:informationoverload:

 

[CBlack]

I'll be in touch when I get a trigger!

Thanks for the link to Manner's stocks. I like the look of them.

I'm at a dilemma at the moment I need some help/advice with...

I'm right handed but shoot left handed due to my eyesight. Surgeon only has right handed actions. I was wanting a stock with a thumbhole for this first build.

I guess I can cancel the Surgeon and go with a Stiller. Or I can get a standard M40 style. Thoughts?

 

[HHhuntitall]

I'm not sure what you're asking here... . Are you going to cancel the Surgeon and order a left bolt Stiller? Then you want an M40 stock instead of a thumbhole stock? The M40A1 stock used by the Marine Corps is readily available from McMillan for most any action configuration... . They have most blueprints uploaded into their CAD system for milling.....



I'll tell you you're going to have a hard time finding someone to make you a Left Hand thumbhole stock... . Manners has a handhole stock that is ambi-dextrous if you order it without the adjustable cheeckpiece... . McMillan used to offer custom made stocks... . I don't think they'll do that now. I'd think Manners would work with you a little more.....

 

[CBlack]

I'm not sure what you're asking here... . Are you going to cancel the Surgeon and order a left bolt Stiller? Then you want an M40 stock instead of a thumbhole stock? The M40A1 stock used by the Marine Corps is readily available from McMillan for most any action configuration... . They have most blueprints uploaded into their CAD system for milling.....

I'll tell you you're going to have a hard time finding someone to make you a Left Hand thumbhole stock... . Manners has a handhole stock that is ambi-dextrous if you order it without the adjustable cheeckpiece... . McMillan used to offer custom made stocks... . I don't think they'll do that now. I'd think Manners would work with you a little more.....

No, that was my question... I could just settle for the M40 style and still use the Surgeon. Or I could use a left bolt Stiller and get the stock I want, just have to dig for it.

I was going through Manner's stock builder last night and it showed only left or right hand. I guess I need to call them.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I'd suggest several phone calls..... You might call Surgeon and just see if he will make you a left bolt... . I've shot ambi for years, but on fast, running, shots, I shoot left shouldered, if I can. I'm not necessarily left eye dominant, but that's the eye I like to shoot optics off of... . I also like to use a Right bolt... . I can pull my head up to track game, holding the rifle on my shoulder, while chambering another round with my right hand, keeping the rifle in firing position at all times without losing sight of my game, and keeping the rifle in swing and on track for another shot..... Usually works out good for me... . Not so good with most autoloaders... . uch: Gotta keep yer' sunglasses on when shooting out the passenger window.....

 

[HHhuntitall]

Found these wood stocks... . WOW, what a good price!! I'm not much on wood, but if you did like it... they said they'd make it left handed, thumbhole, too... ...

http://www.rifle-stocks.com/Thumbhole Target 2 BenchRest Version.htm

 

[GHarman]

HH,
Did ya see the tactical thumbhole stock from your link! VERY NICE!
GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

... and the price on that electric blue monte-carlo thumbhole... ... :foam-at-the-mouth:

 

[GHarman]

HHhuntitall,
Any idea how they would handle in changing weather conditions?
I LOVE wood, but for serious consistency in rifle precision and accuracy?
What do ya think?
The price is sure RIGHT!
GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

Greg, the laminated wood should hold up okay..... It might be a concern over a period of several days and changing temps and conditions... . Bedding would have to be extensive, IMO... Fill 'er up with Devcon, at least 1/4" around the front lug and enough to prevent flexing around the action... . Can it be much worse than aluminum? How much does grade cast aluminum contract and expand in temp extremes? Granted, it's not subject to hydrolysis... . but good, aged Walnut or hardwood, laminated and coated with a good sealer should be ok... . I see the benchrest guys use them regularly, and we both know how accurate those things are..... Ballard uses a purple laminated stock on his . 284 when he shot the new F-class record... . http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek088.html



Pretty sure I don't want one for hunting in Alaska, but for competition, I'm not sure it's that bad... ... :not-convinced:

 

[GHarman]

HHhuntitall,
Aluminum co-efficient of expansion is about . 002" per inch per 100*F.
It is not hygroscopic like wood.
However, The thickness of the laminates and the depth of penetration of the epoxy joining material would certainly limit the laminates ability to absorb moisture.
I have a laminated stock blank made of Cherry, that has laminates that are only about 1/32" thick. I've had it for years and have never found another like it or a source!
The action area is roughed out for a short Remington 700 and is wide enough for a Heavy varmint barrel.
I would think that the epoxy would penetrate through those thin layers and basically seal the wood.
Devcon bedding would be a requirement. I have done bedding with Devcon Titanium and found that it works very well, without to much added weight.
Ya gotta be careful with the release compound. Devcon Titanium is not forgiving!
GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

HHhuntitall,

Aluminum co-efficient of expansion is about . 002" per inch per 100*F.

It is not hygroscopic like wood.

However, The thickness of the laminates and the depth of penetration of the epoxy joining material would certainly limit the laminates ability to absorb moisture.

I have a laminated stock blank made of Cherry, that has laminates that are only about 1/32" thick. I've had it for years and have never found another like it or a source!

The action area is roughed out for a short Remington 700 and is wide enough for a Heavy varmint barrel.

I would think that the epoxy would penetrate through those thin layers and basically seal the wood.

Cherry? I've seen it used for pocket knife scales, and I have a huge, old, family heirloom china cabinet that all my dad's racing trophies are in, which is made, supposedly, entirely out of cherry, from an orchard on the family farm in Tennessee... . No idea if that's true, but it's held up well over a century... . :-laf The glass is getting wavy from age..... NO IDEA where you would find a large enough piece of it to do a rifle stock, but laminate I can see... . And as you were thinking, I've thought, if it was laminated properly, it should seal both sides of the wood, even absorbing a certain amount of it... . That's an experiment I've wanted to do, but just don't have time... . I've seen first-hand how the cheap balsa wood (or whatever Remington uses now) stocks move relentlessly from low to high humidity from summer to winter... . Every one has to be re-zeroed every 6 months at a minimum, and they're always off at least 1/2 MOA... . I'm sure I'm not telling you anything... .

Devcon bedding would be a requirement. I have done bedding with Devcon Titanium and found that it works very well, without to much added weight.

Ya gotta be careful with the release compound. Devcon Titanium is not forgiving!

GregH

I use Acraglass where it may be temporary, but Devcon is a must have tool... . It's not funny what lack of planning can do... . I once managed to get some up through the front bolt hole on a Remington I built... . I had to pull the barrel to get to and chip it out with a small carbide... . Talk about make you feel stupid!! I also don't recommend working on them when you've been drinking... . I glued a Vuclan V50SS into the stock a few years ago... . Still in there, as far as I know... . Even with well over 1,000rnds through it while I owned it, and it never came loose. I backed the bolts off, and they even fell out a few times while I was shooting !!! Never had so much as a bit of flex to it..... It was bedded completely under the action and down under the barrel nut and barrel about 8 inches... . Never has a benchrest rifle ever been glued in like that!!!! I really didn't realize what I had done until the next day when I went to put things up... . The Brownell's release agent was nowhere to be found... . I thought,"That's strange, where'd I put that?" Then I realized I had 6 brand new cans of it. Still taped up in the box where UPS had dropped it off... ... . "Surely I DIDN'T!!!" Went to unscrew it, but it was already too late... . There's two 5/16" bolts that hold it in on the bottom... . Nope. Didn't budge... . Heard the stock start to stress crack, and I quit pulling... . Yep, I did. Consider that "LESSON LEARNED, Chapter 9, Volume IV, page 1,985"

 

[GHarman]

HHhuntitall,

I herd tell; "the onliest folks that dont make mistakes, dont do anything"!

Keep at it Brother!!

GregH

 

[JLeake]

I have not made a gun stock out of black cherry, but have made many other furniture items and bowls out of cherry. It does shrink / swell a bit, but it is minimal. Richard Hoadley's "Understanding Wood" published by Taunton Press has a great table in it on the properties of wood. Hoadley has a big table in the book that provides that information for most common species. If you want some specific data on a species I have the book at home and will be happy to look the data up.

In general the laminated wood in gun stocks is very stable. Not as stable as plywood where the grain is at 90 degrees to the layers above and below it, but the very thin lamination's tend to minimize that. All materials move, some to a greater extent than others some with temperature, or other factors like relative humidity. Wood moves more than steel, aluminum moves more than steel, etc and each has their own set of other properties. Choosing a stock material is an exercise in trading off the different characteristics. If you are like my wife, appearance is most important, so a solid blank is her preference. Go look at the F Class stock that Chesboro built, very unusual, but certainly looks effective (http://www.chesebrorifles.com/Steve-Jennings-Stock-A-1.htm).

 

[GHarman]

JLeake,

That Chesboro stock is really a minimalist approach.

I like Fiberglass, properly bedded of course. A solid wood stock is outstanding for appearance but is useless for a serious hunting stock.

Not being new to this materials search without going into details, I understand the pros and cons. Yes it is a compromise, but one that has been successfully

implemented in modern tactical, competition and hunting rifles.

I dont like the "plywood stocks" so much as the idea of the wood being stabilized to some degree by glue joints.

The thinner laminations may be impregnated by the joining epoxy to a greater degree than the thicker section designs

However, with birch being the prime material, I just dont get to excited unless the price is significantly low!

There have been some interesting wood gunstock offerings over the years that have piqued my interest.

One was resawn walnut slabs, glued together in 3 or 4 thicknesses.

Another is African Obeeche. Beautiful but very pricey.

See; http://scopeusout.com/custom-rifle-stocks/obeche-colors/

I have some dream projects in mind for the future that hopefully will employ some top grade wood.

A single shot falling block Shuetzen rifle with two piece, stock and forend. Just a range queen with no other useage other than punching holes in paper.

Was thinking about Turkish Walnut for this project. Gotta save my pennies:-laf!

Heres a link to some really exotic wood:-laf

http://www.turkishwalnut.net/gunstocks.html

Anyway, I have thought this over from many different avenues, and understand the limitations of materials.

I am sure HHhuntitall is very familiar with these materials, also. CBlack may have to do some studying?

Not being familiar with his level of expertise in firearms.

GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

That Chesboro is minimal, to say the least... . Not sure I'd be up for that one... . I think it's a neat concept, but a bit rough on recoil, especially on a larger caliber... . One of the beauties of fiberglass and foam filler... . Another drawback to a wood stocked rifle... . I can imagine what that steel booger would do on a 105* day laying out on the ground?!?!?! WOW! Don't even want to think of it... .



I don't know, guess I'm getting old... . I like the looks of that electric blue stock... . I'm seriously contemplating it... . Varmint forearm thumbhole stock..... Ugh... . Anybody want to buy a H&S stock for Remington 700/721? Only slightly abused... .

 

[CBlack]

Anyone have any experience with Stiller actions?

Thinking of canceling the Surgeon and going with a Stiller. A few hundred cheaper and I get a lefty.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Good actions. Their tolerances come and go with the wear in their tooling, it seems..... The repeaters don't get the tight tolerances the single shots do, it appears to me. I've barreld 3-4, IIRC. I see a few of them floating around the shoots when I can actually make it. I've talked to Jerry several times, and he seems like a nice guy. Never had any of my own, though. The front of the reciever is flat, and the threads are square. That says a lot!!

 

[BIGNASTY]

HHhuntitall,
Any idea how they would handle in changing weather conditions?
I LOVE wood, but for serious consistency in rifle precision and accuracy?
What do ya think?
The price is sure RIGHT!
GregH

THEY DONT!!!! anyone that shows up with a show piece rifle and 4K worth of hunting clothes NEW WITH TAGS STILL ON are asked to sign a waver for their Rifles. They are inspected and any defect is noted and photo-ed. They bring some FINE looking rifles and buy a wal-mart scabbard and pi** and moan about a scratch. The wood is VERY NICE LOOKING The later in the season hunts are especially hard on the wood they are taken out in cold wet weather and then into a warm tent after 7 days of the heat no heat lots of WOOD stocks split if not at camp or back at the barn, when they get them home and a month later we get a call HEY YOU F'ed UP MY RIFLE. There are lots of stocks in my Gun safe with all the action/barrels removed and in some kind of man made material stock, if a working rifle is what it must be! then IMO the choice is clear. If poking holes in paper is your fun then by all means have a pretty wood stock not much changes from the car to the bench.

https://www.hsprecision.com/shop2/stocks.html

BIG