Introducing the 2014 Ram ProMaster Commercial Van

[mwilson]

Truthfully, looks and utility aren't necessarily a required combination. Most commercial buyers don't pay much attention to looks. It's like who cares what a schoolbus looks like or a commercial white van.

I don't think it's any uglier than the Sprinter. They claim they put the lights up high to reduce repairs cost from light accidents.



Remember the dustbuster? Now in the consumer world, looks does matter.



#ad

Those were known up here as "Suppositories" or in some cases an "Anal Probe"... ... ... .



Mike.

 

[HBarlow]

Truthfully, looks and utility aren't necessarily a required combination. Most commercial buyers don't pay much attention to looks. It's like who cares what a schoolbus looks like or a commercial white van. ..... snip .....

An excellent point.

That is basically what I was thinking when I bought my 3500 cab and chassis. It's ugly in the eyes of most buyers but it offers several very desirable advantages over the pickup. The Aisin six speed automatic (which Dodge-Fiat must think is stronger than the MOPAR six speed because the Aisin will replace the MOPAR unit in the new '13s), a 52 gallon fuel tank, stiffer suspension that doesn't require air bags, etc. , and I've found the flat bed is much more practical than the standard pickup bed.

Nope, it's not pretty but it works.

 

[HBarlow]

I got it, I got it... . !!!

The new Dodge / Fiat van platform is a wonderful base vehicle for Pakistani "Jingle Van" conversions... ... . they will sell like hotcakes over there...
Can you see the potential????


View attachment 84192


View attachment 84193

Wow, that's a beauty, Mike. Can your dealership order those Pakistani vans for us on a TDR group buy?

 

[rscurtis]

Harvey, I believe that the Aisin can replace the 68RFE, but it will not be used in all platforms. The 3500's with the 850 ft/lb engine will have the Aisin, all others will still use the 68.

 

[HBarlow]

Ooops. I thought it was all of them.

I just scanned over the news report (I don't plan to buy one) and thought the Aisin would replace all of them. I was wrong about use of Aisin in all new Rams but was not wrong about the Aisin being the superior transmission for the most demanding applications.

 

[Yo Hoot]

More info.

The diesel engine is not the same one going into the Cherokee. That one is the VM Motori. This one a a four banger made by Fiat. The trans that comes with the diesel is an autoshift... It's a computer controlled manual.
The van has loads of great features. Check out the video...

http://link.brightcove.com/services...v0CYvSVFaJAwrn9QDKzDrJZMY&bctid=2160129337001

 

[HBarlow]

I like it. I predict it won't be long until an RV manufacturer puts a camper body on the Ram/Fiat platform. I hope the engine and drivetrain prove reliable. The transmission sounds like the one in 2006 and later VWs and Audis. It's called a DSG; a manual six speed with a computer controlled manual clutch and shifter.

 

[Yo Hoot]

I like it. I predict it won't be long until an RV manufacturer puts a camper body on the Ram/Fiat platform. I hope the engine and drivetrain prove reliable. The transmission sounds like the one in 2006 and later VWs and Audis. It's called a DSG; a manual six speed with a computer controlled manual clutch and shifter.

Not so sure it's a DSG Harvey. A DSG (Dual Clutch) has both gears engaged at the same time and applies one gear while the other is staged. The guy in the video says the one in the van has distinct shift hesitation and shifts like a manual. DSG's do not shift like a manual.
Not to say the guy in the video is wrong though.

 

[NIsaacs]

I just don't see the utility in a front wheel drive low powered full size van... tow rating is like 5000 lbs. Payload can't be that great.

I have a problem with the front wheel drive too, and the tires and wheels (5 bolt) look small even on the cab/chassis. They claim a 5k payload on the one ton but... ..... It does seem to have a long wheel base tho so maybe the front will get some traction. I have a hunch the front tires will just melt the tread off, pulling all the time with less than optimal weight transfer/traction.



Nick

 

[mwilson]

Not so sure it's a DSG Harvey. A DSG (Dual Clutch) has both gears engaged at the same time and applies one gear while the other is staged. The guy in the video says the one in the van has distinct shift hesitation and shifts like a manual. DSG's do not shift like a manual.

Not to say the guy in the video is wrong though.

Fuller RoadRanger has taken a couple of stabs at this with dismal results so far. They will get it figured out at some point and of course are dealing with much higher GVW's.



The issues have been a lurching like no other upon takeoff and as far as trying to gently bump a loading dock..... forget about it 'cause it ain't gonna' happen. It is all or nothing.



We had a trailer get shoved through a wall as a result of a driver winding up an Auto-Shift equipped tractor in Reverse in an attempt to couple to his semi-trailer. When the transmission finally took ahold he did indeed hit the pin, then it kept going and shoved the trailer about 6 feet with the brakes still locked. Trouble was that the wall was only 4 feet away...



Mike.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Fuller RoadRanger has taken a couple of stabs at this with dismal results so far. They will get it figured out at some point and of course are dealing with much higher GVW's.

The issues have been a lurching like no other upon takeoff and as far as trying to gently bump a loading dock..... forget about it 'cause it ain't gonna' happen. It is all or nothing.

We had a trailer get shoved through a wall as a result of a driver winding up an Auto-Shift equipped tractor in Reverse in an attempt to couple to his semi-trailer. When the transmission finally took ahold he did indeed hit the pin, then it kept going and shoved the trailer about 6 feet with the brakes still locked. Trouble was that the wall was only 4 feet away...

Mike.

Maybe add a torque converter that locks after 5 mph

 

[jgillott]

Fuller RoadRanger has taken a couple of stabs at this with dismal results so far. They will get it figured out at some point and of course are dealing with much higher GVW's.

The issues have been a lurching like no other upon takeoff and as far as trying to gently bump a loading dock..... forget about it 'cause it ain't gonna' happen. It is all or nothing.

We had a trailer get shoved through a wall as a result of a driver winding up an Auto-Shift equipped tractor in Reverse in an attempt to couple to his semi-trailer. When the transmission finally took ahold he did indeed hit the pin, then it kept going and shoved the trailer about 6 feet with the brakes still locked. Trouble was that the wall was only 4 feet away...

Mike.

One driver I know from here hit the back of another unit in the lot last year with one. He swears that he just touched the throttle and it took off. I didn't half believe him until reading your post.

 

[HBarlow]

Not so sure it's a DSG Harvey. A DSG (Dual Clutch) has both gears engaged at the same time and applies one gear while the other is staged. The guy in the video says the one in the van has distinct shift hesitation and shifts like a manual. DSG's do not shift like a manual.
Not to say the guy in the video is wrong though.

I think we're talking about different equipment. The DSG I am referring to is Volkwagen/Audi's name for their Direct Shift Gear transmission which is actually a manual six speed with gears including a dual mass flywheel manual clutch. Both are actuated by a mini-computer. All shifts are crisp, quick, and definitely not using a torque converter.

Afterthough: I don't know any more about the new Ram/Fiat than the guy in the video told us and he may have been a marketing or pr guy with only a vague understanding rather than an engineer.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Sorry Harvey... you are wrong again. #ad

The twin-clutch transmission, also known as the Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG) or dual-clutch transmission, is an automated transmission that can change gears faster than any other geared transmission. Twin-clutch transmissions deliver more power and better control than a traditional automatic transmission and faster performance than a manual transmission. Originally marketed by Volkswagen as the DSG and Audi as the S-Tronic, twin-clutch transmissions are now being offered by several automakers, including Nissan, Mitsubishi, BMW and Porsche.

The twin-clutch transmission is essentially two separate transmissions with a pair of clutches between them. One transmission provides odd-numbered speeds (ie first, third and fifth gear), the other provides even-numbered speeds (second, fourth and sixth). When the car starts out, the "odd" gearbox is in first gear and the "even" gearbox is in second gear. The clutch engages the odd gearbox and the car starts out in first gear. When it's time to change gears, the transmission simply uses the clutches to switch from the odd gearbox to the even gearbox, for a near-instant change to second gear. The odd gearbox immediately pre-selects third gear. At the next change the transmission swaps gearboxes again, engaging third gear, and the even gearbox pre-selects fourth gear. The twin-clutch transmission's computerized controller calculates the next likely gearchange based on speed and driver behavoior and has the "idle" gearbox pre-select that gear.

http://cars.about.com/od/thingsyouneedtoknow/a/ag_howDSGworks.htm

 

[HBarlow]

Not so sure it's a DSG Harvey. A DSG (Dual Clutch) has both gears engaged at the same time and applies one gear while the other is staged. The guy in the video says the one in the van has distinct shift hesitation and shifts like a manual. DSG's do not shift like a manual.
Not to say the guy in the video is wrong though.

No I wasn't.

I was responding to your quoted comments. VW never refers to the DSG as "dual clutch" in literature or on owner websites which made me think you were talking about some other product in some other vehicle. The quoted comment about "distinct shift hesitation" is not a characteristic of the VW/Audi DSG. It shifts instantly and very crisply.

 

[Yo Hoot]

No I wasn't.

I was responding to your quoted comments. VW never refers to the DSG as "dual clutch" in literature or on owner websites which made me think you were talking about some other product in some other vehicle. The quoted comment about "distinct shift hesitation" is not a characteristic of the VW/Audi DSG. It shifts instantly and very crisply.

The VW/Audi DSG shifts instantly and crisply because it doesn't technically shift when changing ratios. While one clutch is engaged in first gear and driving, second gear is already engaged but the second clutch that drives it is staged to apply when first is done. All that has to occur is apply the second clutch while disengaging the first. It continues like this back and forth up the range.

You said

The transmission sounds like the one in 2006 and later VWs and Audis. It's called a DSG; a manual six speed with a computer controlled manual clutch and shifter.

I said it (ProMaster Van trans) wasn't a DSG based on the guy in the videos', description.

Also your description

DSG; a manual six speed with a computer controlled manual clutch and shifter.

leads me to believe you don't know what a DSG is. That statement says you think it's simply an autoshift trans.

 

[HBarlow]

I suppose you can continue playing word games if you wish but the VW DSG six speed automatic IS IN FACT a manual transmission with actual teethed gearsets and a dual mass flywheel and clutch assembly. That is the way it is described in VW literature and cutaway drawings also. I could not find a cut away drawing that can be copied and pasted here.

 

[n7gxz]

Is this what you were looking for Harvey?

Kevin

 

[mwilson]

Is this what you were looking for Harvey?



View attachment 84246



Kevin

I was just looking at one like it, was showing the flow of power for first gear.



Pretty cool.



Mike.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Notice clutch 1 and clutch 2? It's basically two transmissions with one having the even gears and the other having the odd gears.

Harvey you keep saying dual mass clutch and flywheel assy. Whether it has a dual mass clutch or not has nothing to do with the main design of how this transmission works. The main design features is what I said in the first line of this post. It is two clutches and two transmissions all on one package. It alternates between the two as it shifts through the gears. It drives first gear with one clutch and during that time second gear of the "second" trans is already engaged but the "second" clutch has not yet applied.

The benefit being that the next gear is already physically engaged before it gets applied. It becomes a clutch dance.

Yes the DSG is a computer controlled, manual trans but it is not the same as what was described is in the ProMaster Van. If in fact the ProMaster has a basic auto shift manual... then that is very different than a DSG.

An autoshift manual is a manual transmission with a computer and actuators doing the same shifting as you would do if it was just a manual. A DSG does that too but it's main design feature is that it always has the next gear engaged using two clutches and two transmissions.

Sorry for dragging this out but I got the impression, Harvey, that you weren't understanding the differences.