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Oil Analysis at 130K
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NIsaacs
TDR MEMBER
Ken, I am going to throw rocks at this practice, not you, so don't take it personal
But why would you compromise your $15,000 engine for a few dollars worth of oil? You say the oil tests good at 12,000 miles. For me, now would be the time to change it, before it is bad and damage to the engine has started. What will the oil be like for the next 12,000 miles? Is the oil tested at 200 degrees? At 130,000 miles, what have you proven? Most people don't keep a vehicle long enough or drive one enough to prove a milestone, like a million miles. Junky ole gassers can go for 250,000 miles now days with proper maintenance. At the rate you are going, it will take another 30 plus years to get a million miles. Will you save enough with exteded drain intervals and by selling oil to rebuild your engine, at say, 400,000 miles?
Nick
But why would you compromise your $15,000 engine for a few dollars worth of oil? You say the oil tests good at 12,000 miles. For me, now would be the time to change it, before it is bad and damage to the engine has started. What will the oil be like for the next 12,000 miles? Is the oil tested at 200 degrees? At 130,000 miles, what have you proven? Most people don't keep a vehicle long enough or drive one enough to prove a milestone, like a million miles. Junky ole gassers can go for 250,000 miles now days with proper maintenance. At the rate you are going, it will take another 30 plus years to get a million miles. Will you save enough with exteded drain intervals and by selling oil to rebuild your engine, at say, 400,000 miles?Nick
Nick,
There's this thing called synthetic oil... . you use it instead of petroleum based oil. Its cheaper on a mileage basis, it commonly lasts many duty cycles. Superior in every way shape and form hands down. The point of the engine oil analysis is to tell you both the condition of the fluid and also identify wear patterns in the engine. Oil analysis is used by large fleets on engines that take many gallons of fluids and has been for many years. The oil analysis form said "suitable for continued use". Did you read the lab report? It shows the progression from oil spent at 5000 miles and fuel contaminated and viscosity shot to oil still suitable after 12,000 miles. The oil in question is Amsoil DEO and is rated to 50,000 miles or more. But since I have already saved the cost of an oil and filter change at least twice and will save another two oil change costs before I change to 15W-40, I think my little experiment is worth the "trouble". BTW, take a minute and figure out how much you save by changing your oil every 7500 miles vs 50,000 miles. The cost savings are enormous, and no you are not endangering your engine by using synthetic oils. Also, thanks for chiming in with your thoughts... ...
There's this thing called synthetic oil... . you use it instead of petroleum based oil. Its cheaper on a mileage basis, it commonly lasts many duty cycles. Superior in every way shape and form hands down. The point of the engine oil analysis is to tell you both the condition of the fluid and also identify wear patterns in the engine. Oil analysis is used by large fleets on engines that take many gallons of fluids and has been for many years. The oil analysis form said "suitable for continued use". Did you read the lab report? It shows the progression from oil spent at 5000 miles and fuel contaminated and viscosity shot to oil still suitable after 12,000 miles. The oil in question is Amsoil DEO and is rated to 50,000 miles or more. But since I have already saved the cost of an oil and filter change at least twice and will save another two oil change costs before I change to 15W-40, I think my little experiment is worth the "trouble". BTW, take a minute and figure out how much you save by changing your oil every 7500 miles vs 50,000 miles. The cost savings are enormous, and no you are not endangering your engine by using synthetic oils. Also, thanks for chiming in with your thoughts... ...
NIsaacs
TDR MEMBER
Ken,
Thanks for your response and yes I have heard about synthetic oil. I did not read the report because I don't understand all the gibberish. If they tested the oil at 200 degrees would they find anything different? 50,000 mile oil is crazy and my guess is it was tested under a controlled environment, something you or I can't do. Will a filter go that far or even 24,000 miles without failure?
Amsoil availability around here is order only, so shipping would need to be added but it apears to be about 3-1 in cost.
Amsoil, 3 gal @ $40 is $120, plus filter @ $14, plus 1 analysis kit @ $20 is a total of $154 for 24,000 miles.
Delo, 9 gal @ $13 is $117, plus 3 filters @ $42 is a total of $159 for 24,000 miles.
I fully expect my three trucks to out live me (20 more years) using cheap john oil. I do not recall any thread where oil was suspected in any Cummins failure so I can't see what the advantage is.
Some people like synthetic butter (margarine) I like the real deal:-laf
Nick
Thanks for your response and yes I have heard about synthetic oil. I did not read the report because I don't understand all the gibberish. If they tested the oil at 200 degrees would they find anything different? 50,000 mile oil is crazy and my guess is it was tested under a controlled environment, something you or I can't do. Will a filter go that far or even 24,000 miles without failure?
Amsoil availability around here is order only, so shipping would need to be added but it apears to be about 3-1 in cost.
Amsoil, 3 gal @ $40 is $120, plus filter @ $14, plus 1 analysis kit @ $20 is a total of $154 for 24,000 miles.
Delo, 9 gal @ $13 is $117, plus 3 filters @ $42 is a total of $159 for 24,000 miles.
I fully expect my three trucks to out live me (20 more years) using cheap john oil. I do not recall any thread where oil was suspected in any Cummins failure so I can't see what the advantage is.
Some people like synthetic butter (margarine) I like the real deal:-laf
Nick
BDaugherty
TDR MEMBER
To each their own.
I personally use bulk 15W40 in my truck and pay more attention to using a quality oil filter. Everyone has their own oil opinions and each has its own merit. But honestly, how many engines do you really see fail due to poor quality oil? I see them fail because of oil contamination or lack of oil, but I really can't remember the last time I saw one that just locked down because it couldn't handle the gas station brand oil and Super Tech oil filter. Last question, how many people really keep their truck long enough for the engine to be actually worn out? I know there are some high milers here, but really... out of the total ownership of these trucks, what small percentage manages to keep the body and chassis together long enough to wear out an engine?
I'm not trying to start a war, rather end one. I bought my truck on the cheap with 250k of quickie lube maintained miles, dropped $2400 on a new set of injectors so it would start below 60 degrees and it's been normal maintenance ever since... not counting the wheel bearing, ball joint, axle ujoints, rear driveshaft ujoints, heater treater, and a few other odds and ends.
Last point: Extra high performance oil is better, no doubt about it... especially when used with extra high performance engines. I personally used Amsoil in half a dozen vehicles over a span of 8 years or so, but I kept selling them way before I saw the returns in my investment. I do understand the cost per mile and environmental benefits of extended service intervals, but you have to admit that it's not for the common owner. Even with the right parts in place, it still takes strict adherence to the program to make it work.
I personally use bulk 15W40 in my truck and pay more attention to using a quality oil filter. Everyone has their own oil opinions and each has its own merit. But honestly, how many engines do you really see fail due to poor quality oil? I see them fail because of oil contamination or lack of oil, but I really can't remember the last time I saw one that just locked down because it couldn't handle the gas station brand oil and Super Tech oil filter. Last question, how many people really keep their truck long enough for the engine to be actually worn out? I know there are some high milers here, but really... out of the total ownership of these trucks, what small percentage manages to keep the body and chassis together long enough to wear out an engine?
I'm not trying to start a war, rather end one. I bought my truck on the cheap with 250k of quickie lube maintained miles, dropped $2400 on a new set of injectors so it would start below 60 degrees and it's been normal maintenance ever since... not counting the wheel bearing, ball joint, axle ujoints, rear driveshaft ujoints, heater treater, and a few other odds and ends.
Last point: Extra high performance oil is better, no doubt about it... especially when used with extra high performance engines. I personally used Amsoil in half a dozen vehicles over a span of 8 years or so, but I kept selling them way before I saw the returns in my investment. I do understand the cost per mile and environmental benefits of extended service intervals, but you have to admit that it's not for the common owner. Even with the right parts in place, it still takes strict adherence to the program to make it work.
Doing an oil analysis as a baseline to verify an individual owners vehicle and lube brand usage is OK - I've done it myself on a 20K extended run - but have in regular practice, used a 12K/12 month change interval, whichever comes first. Too bad the OP's oil analysis didn't include particle count or an "insolubles" category - that pretty well defines the contamination of the oil in regards to solids buildup and oil filter efficiency.
In contrast, here's my own rigs oil analysis, using plain old NON-synthetic Chevron CI-4Plus 15/40 - I've also included the particle count for that same oil sampling - I have greatest respect for synthetic lubes, but have NEVER see an oil sample better than mine below, using dino-based lube, and my Frantz sub-micron oil filter. Pay special attention to the Iron content in my analysis, and the one in the report at the top of this thread, a good measure of the cylinder wear taking place:
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SO, do you have to use a high-priced synthetic to get low wear in extended usage?
YOU BE THE JUDGE!
.
In contrast, here's my own rigs oil analysis, using plain old NON-synthetic Chevron CI-4Plus 15/40 - I've also included the particle count for that same oil sampling - I have greatest respect for synthetic lubes, but have NEVER see an oil sample better than mine below, using dino-based lube, and my Frantz sub-micron oil filter. Pay special attention to the Iron content in my analysis, and the one in the report at the top of this thread, a good measure of the cylinder wear taking place:
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SO, do you have to use a high-priced synthetic to get low wear in extended usage?
YOU BE THE JUDGE!
.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks Bdaugherty and Nick for the good info. Here's a snippet from a TDR member wishing to remain anonymous: " I go 50,000 miles between changes on my 07 C&C using Amsoil 15/40 diesel & marine. I change the full flow filter every 6000 miles and the bi-pass filter every 25k. On my previous two trucks I changed the oil every 100k. They went 416k on my 95 and 346k on my 03. I farmed for 25 yrs and used Amsoil and I have never had a oil related failure. On my truck I sample every 12000 miles". If you wish to contact him for more info please PM me.
Nick... Amsoil is probably cheaper to have drop shipped to your house, since the alternative is to go get it and how far is that at $ per mile and $ per hour for your time. You also might consider time saved in between changes as a plus since you are making money (driving, farming, etc. ) and not under the truck or paying someone else to change your oil. BTW correction to your math... Current retail cost of DEO plus EAO80 filter is $162 delivered to your house. Preferred customer price is $133. 40. Cost of Rotella and a filter at Oreillys Auto was $63. 56 you have to drive to get it. You have to change oil 6 times ($382 plus labor & time) or change oil once in 50K ($133. 40 plus another 18. 85 for changing the filter at 25K miles). The return on investment (savings) is immediate and financially satisfying.
Plus the oil is MADE IN AMERICA which is even more satisfying!
Y'all have a great St. Patrick's Day
Nick... Amsoil is probably cheaper to have drop shipped to your house, since the alternative is to go get it and how far is that at $ per mile and $ per hour for your time. You also might consider time saved in between changes as a plus since you are making money (driving, farming, etc. ) and not under the truck or paying someone else to change your oil. BTW correction to your math... Current retail cost of DEO plus EAO80 filter is $162 delivered to your house. Preferred customer price is $133. 40. Cost of Rotella and a filter at Oreillys Auto was $63. 56 you have to drive to get it. You have to change oil 6 times ($382 plus labor & time) or change oil once in 50K ($133. 40 plus another 18. 85 for changing the filter at 25K miles). The return on investment (savings) is immediate and financially satisfying.
Plus the oil is MADE IN AMERICA which is even more satisfying!
Y'all have a great St. Patrick's Day
YUP - and YOURS was only a 12K sampling, mine 20K - and yours showed TWICE (44 ppm) the Iron, compared to mine!
And I don't see any listing for "Insolubles" in your test report?
BUT, the current mileage issue is that the truck sees little usage since we moved here to eastern Oregon in '05, further complicated by the fact we now also have a motorhome that sidelines the truck even more, since we don't do as much 5er towing as before.
Sadly, the truck now only has about 75K miles on it, pretty low annual average, and not practical for further oil analysis runs, but on the plus side, I still have a couple years more of the good old Chevron DELO 400 CI-4 Plus oil on hand for oil changes...
Always fun and interesting to compare oil test results!
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But at how many miles on the oil?
15k at last analysis. About to be 22k when I send this next one in.
Although I believe my copper to be high due to where the sample was taken.
At the rate I'm going, it will be another 10 years before I get another 10K on my truck...
Here's an eye-opener for value of oil analysis, this on NEW, unused oil from 3 different test labs:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1581270#Post1581270
Read the other posts in the same thread, for reactions...
AND, for those thinking new, "fresh from the jug" is always pure in terms of wear metals, check out THIS sample - and then compare it to MY wear metals after 20K miles - this sample was new DELO 400 CI4-Plus lube just after they brought out the "Plus" version, which is what I'm still using in my truck:
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Sorta sheds new light on my 20K miles USED oil...
For another eye-opener, where percentages of insolubles in new vs used oil in my samples are concerned, here's a NEW, UNUSED DELO 400 15/40 oil particle count:
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And here again is mine at 20K miles - look at the numbers of finer particles in t he new oil, and in mine after 20K miles, using the Frantz sub-micron oil filter:
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Looks like the oil refiners need better filtration of their stuff before putting it out in the stores!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1581270#Post1581270
Read the other posts in the same thread, for reactions...
AND, for those thinking new, "fresh from the jug" is always pure in terms of wear metals, check out THIS sample - and then compare it to MY wear metals after 20K miles - this sample was new DELO 400 CI4-Plus lube just after they brought out the "Plus" version, which is what I'm still using in my truck:
-
Sorta sheds new light on my 20K miles USED oil...
For another eye-opener, where percentages of insolubles in new vs used oil in my samples are concerned, here's a NEW, UNUSED DELO 400 15/40 oil particle count:
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And here again is mine at 20K miles - look at the numbers of finer particles in t he new oil, and in mine after 20K miles, using the Frantz sub-micron oil filter:
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Looks like the oil refiners need better filtration of their stuff before putting it out in the stores!
Last edited by a moderator:
It is my understanding that non-deleted trucks need to continue filter changes at the factory specified intervals because of the soot infection. No idea on the oil.
The short recommended oil change intervals are due to expected fuel dilution. Not sure how a fancy oil can rid itself of fuel
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