News flash , 708 Sag steering gear mystery solved

[NJTman]

I have built 3 of them now and they are on the road. It is a 100% success ! The steering is tighter than they were new!

Hello Mr. Mysterman... .

This is my first post in this forum, but I thought I'd use it to thank you for your "indirect" help.

With the encouragement of other forum members at DTR, I went the route of the reverse rotation in my 92 w250 CTD. All I can say is that it was the best investment that I, or anyone else could ever do. I created a thread explaining the process, and it's linked here. .

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/steering-gear-retrofit-my-92-t301769.html

Without YOU... and your knowledge that was passed onto myself through others... . I wouldn't have such a great performing steering system on my ride... . and really mean that from the bottom of my oil pan.....

You're the best man ! and I don't even know you... .

 

[ENafziger]

Hello Mr. Mysterman... .

This is my first post in this forum, but I thought I'd use it to thank you for your "indirect" help.

With the encouragement of other forum members at DTR, I went the route of the reverse rotation in my 92 w250 CTD. All I can say is that it was the best investment that I, or anyone else could ever do. I created a thread explaining the process, and it's linked here. .

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...2-t301769.html

Without YOU... and your knowledge that was passed onto myself through others... . I wouldn't have such a great performing steering system on my ride... . and really mean that from the bottom of my oil pan.....

You're the best man ! and I don't even know you... .

^^^ Good to have you here NJTman! Come hang around this crazy bunch!

--Eric

 

[mysteryman]

There are several different input shafts that will work. They will all interchange . The only differance is the spline and the internal torsion bar diameter. (you can't see that) The diameter of the torsion bar determines the amount effort that has to be put on the wheel to turn the wheels. . My recommendation would be to use the input shaft that matches the joint that you are going to use . In the 70's we used the rag joint on the steering gear. The pot joint is on the column. The rag joint does not rust or fill up with sand. If you have a slip shaft you could actually use 2 rag joints and eliminate the pot joints and or universal joints all together. I will go take some pictures of my truck and post them later ... ///MM

MM:



I believe the input shafts on the Reverse Rotation boxes utilized from 1972 to 1977 were splined differently than those on our 1989 to 1993 trucks? If so, what do you use for a steering shaft (to connect the steering column to the steering gearbox)?



Thanks,



Jim

 

[NJTman]

^^^ Good to have you here NJTman! Come hang around this crazy bunch!



--Eric

Thanks Eric.



Hope you are well. Hopefully I can learn something new here... . from all of you cwazy wabbits... . , that is... . :-laf

 

[mysteryman]

Hi NJT, Thx for the complement. there is even more to come. What you need next is my adjustable drag link to be able to center your steering gear/wheel. This is VARY important !!! I will go out and take a few pictures of one of mine. Thx and glad I could help... ///MM

Hello Mr. Mysterman... .



This is my first post in this forum, but I thought I'd use it to thank you for your "indirect" help.



With the encouragement of other forum members at DTR, I went the route of the reverse rotation in my 92 w250 CTD. All I can say is that it was the best investment that I, or anyone else could ever do. I created a thread explaining the process, and it's linked here. .



http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/steering-gear-retrofit-my-92-t301769.html



Without YOU... and your knowledge that was passed onto myself through others... . I wouldn't have such a great performing steering system on my ride... . and really mean that from the bottom of my oil pan.....



You're the best man ! and I don't even know you... .

 

[NJTman]

Centering the steering wheel was pretty easy, or so I thought, by removing the steering wheel, repositioning it on the shaft, and bolting her down... .


Or am I missing something ?


BTW, Doesn't summit or one of the other companies sell and adjustable drag link ? I simply used one out of a early 70's w200 (new, of course). .

 

[DVolk]

I just renemberd that i have the 85 box sitting , Is the same as the 90s 4x4 boxes , how for you to put your kit in it ?

 

[mysteryman]

Steering gear conversion 4x4

I looked at your link/pictures. Vary good. Thanks for posting. I noticed a few things that I feel I should mention. Taking the power steering pump off is much easier to do if removed it WITH the vacuum pump. It must have taken a month of sundays to get the nuts off with the bent wrench.
Anytime you rebuild the p/s pump you should also rebuild the vacuum pump as well . Why ??? There is an oil seal in the vac pump that seals on the input shaft of the p/s pump. That seal always leaks !
As for buying rebuilt pumps... . This is a waste of money! the vac pump only has 1 O ring and 1 seal. It is extremely simple to rebuild. The p/s pump is also quite simple. It is outlined in most every factory manual for the past 25 years. . I sell both the vac and p/s rebuild kits for 22. 00. It normally takes me an hour or less to rebuild both AND have them back on the truck. . The oil sending unit is too close to the pump. You need to remove it before you remove the p/s pump ! To permanently solve this clearance problem . Reinstall the oil sending unit with a 45 degree fitting to get it away from the pump.
The oil sending unit is 1/8th pipe thread. Get a 45 degree BRASS fitting from the hardware or auto parts store near you.
The hoses in the 70's used 45 degree sae flare fittings. the later trucks used the O ring type hose.
The change was made to save money. The 45 degree sae flare fittings were far superior to the O ring style. If you have a choice use the 70's housing with the sae flare fittings ! The only difference in the p/s pump was the fitting that screwed into the back of the pump where the pressure hose connected. .
So get one of those out of a 70's pump and you can use the stock 1970's hoses. No bending required . Just put them on . The next order is the drag link. In order to center the wheel and gear box you need to be able to adjust the length of the drag link. Dodge never made an adjustable one. We just made them to the length that we needed for a given production run. There are way too many variables to ever expect an aftermarket solid drag link to be the correct length to center the steering gear when doing a conversion.
To solve this problem I saw the drag link in half and thread the ends and put a sleeve in. I make these on the lathe. But is no piece of cake to hold them steady while I'm turning them. I had to make some special jigs to hold them. They are also hard on tooling. I have to use carbide inserts and they are tore up by the time I am done with one. I guess I should also mention that I have plenty of new rubber boots for the drag link ends that I sell also. Next we need to talk about steering shafts and pot joints.
I will post that tomorrow. i am worn out from typing now. I am also posting a few other pictures of the split rims and FACTORY winch as well... ///MM

Hello Mr. Mysterman... .

This is my first post in this forum, but I thought I'd use it to thank you for your "indirect" help.

With the encouragement of other forum members at DTR, I went the route of the reverse rotation in my 92 w250 CTD. All I can say is that it was the best investment that I, or anyone else could ever do. I created a thread explaining the process, and it's linked here. .

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/steering-gear-retrofit-my-92-t301769.html

Without YOU... and your knowledge that was passed onto myself through others... . I wouldn't have such a great performing steering system on my ride... . and really mean that from the bottom of my oil pan.....

You're the best man ! and I don't even know you... .

 

[HHhuntitall]

OH, WOW, that winch pic brings back some memories..... I haven't seen that in almost 10 years!!! I've got one on my Dad's '74 Powerwagon he gave to me a looong time ago. Maybe I need to repower that thing and rebuild it... . 4bt anyone?!? The divorced t-case makes it simple to do whatever you want with it!! The old 318 wore out a long time ago... . Farm hand finally ran it out of oil, and it jumped time..... valves bumped the pistons, and that was that. Used to have to pour two quarts of oil in it in the morning, and after lunch, if you ran it a lot, you had to pour two more in it!!! I pulled a hundred windmills and repacked the leathers with that thing!!! I used to break the motor mounts once a year or so, and finally welded some chain around the driver side in case it broke so I could make it back out to the highway... . I pulled the rear bumper off a time or two, tied to a tree or dozer, and I once righted an overturned cattlepot after a tornado. What a truck!!! Imagine that with a Cummins in front of it!!!!



MM, do you think the PTO, driveshaft, and winch would hold up with a 6BT in front of it? The frame would probably need some help, too.....

 

[mysteryman]

Yes it will work with a cummins. BUT it is an 8000 lb winch. One must engage brain first before using the winch.
The really cool thing about putting the pto on the t/case is that you get 5 forward speeds and one reverse.
(t/case in neutral and pick a gear in the main trans to drive it) If you need an engine (gas) I have a dozen E58 360's and a few 400/440's in the attic I want rid of ! I also designed a torque rod that stops the motor mounts from breaking. I can post a pic of it if anyone is interested. If anyone has one of those winches that is broken. I can make most of the parts to repair it . . Don't scrap the winch!

OH, WOW, that winch pic brings back some memories..... I haven't seen that in almost 10 years!!! I've got one on my Dad's '74 Powerwagon he gave to me a looong time ago. Maybe I need to repower that thing and rebuild it... . 4bt anyone?!? The divorced t-case makes it simple to do whatever you want with it!! The old 318 wore out a long time ago... . Farm hand finally ran it out of oil, and it jumped time..... valves bumped the pistons, and that was that. Used to have to pour two quarts of oil in it in the morning, and after lunch, if you ran it a lot, you had to pour two more in it!!! I pulled a hundred windmills and repacked the leathers with that thing!!! I used to break the motor mounts once a year or so, and finally welded some chain around the driver side in case it broke so I could make it back out to the highway... . I pulled the rear bumper off a time or two, tied to a tree or dozer, and I once righted an overturned cattlepot after a tornado. What a truck!!! Imagine that with a Cummins in front of it!!!!

MM, do you think the PTO, driveshaft, and winch would hold up with a 6BT in front of it? The frame would probably need some help, too.....

 

[DVolk]

Mysteryman , was your post refering to me my power steering pump isnt leaking , how much is that adjustible drag link your speaking of ? and can you get parts for it at the parts house ?

 

[HHhuntitall]

Yes it will work with a cummins. BUT it is an 8000 lb winch. One must engage brain first before using the winch.

Sadly, a trait I'm not known for..... makes for some very entertaining stories, though... . and a few scars. Normally, it was used for light duty, but when it was really needed, it always worked. I'm sure we overloaded it many times, but it kept rolling. We converted it to power steering when I was a kid. My forearms would hurt from trying to steer that thing while Dad poured feed out the back for cows... .

The really cool thing about putting the pto on the t/case is that you get 5 forward speeds and one reverse.

(t/case in neutral and pick a gear in the main trans to drive it) If you need an engine (gas) I have a dozen E58 360's and a few 400/440's in the attic I want rid of ! I also designed a torque rod that stops the motor mounts from breaking. I can post a pic of it if anyone is interested. If anyone has one of those winches that is broken. I can make most of the parts to repair it . . Don't scrap the winch!

An RB motor is an option..... I've had a desire for years to turbo a 440 or 413. I've got forged pistons for both that I think would take the punishment, and some J1 casting heads I've ported out nicely... . I've also got a Scat 3/8"+ crank... . I had the same spec crank in a . 060 440 and with junk heads I could make my '71 Dart run upper 9. 90's weighing in at 3,000lbs... . It was a bear when it shifted to high gear... . And Edelbrock makes some really HUGE aluminum heads with ports like barn doors... :drool:



I'm getting off topic, which is par for me, but that pic of the winch is gonna flash in my small brain cavity like a drive in movie for the next few days...

 

[Ncostello]

mysteryman... when you say "I sell... " this or that part or kit... what is the name of your business or how do I find out more about what you sell? You may have alot of things I'd be interested in but am unaware of.



Also on that nice boot... I think some Oetiker stainless crimp clamps would be PERFECT for that application. Those are the OEM type band clamps that you pinch the ear on to tighten them up. Available in many diameters. They are much narrower than the typical worm gear clamps that tend to eat into rubber anyhow. They also maintain constant tension around the diameter and look factory. My 96 full size Bronco used them for the boot on the drive shaft slip splines. Just a thought.

 

[mysteryman]

Yes there are a lot of things that the members here are unaware of that I do or have done. I am really not in business any longer. I still do engineering consulting and expert witnessing for civil litigation. But I am mainly retired. I still make parts and for find solutions for problems that the bigger fleets on a case by case basis. I do project like this steering gear for the benefit of myself and my FRIENDS. When I say that "I will sell " that means that I am willing to include members here or anyone else that wants to be included in the project. I am an old man and I move at my own pace. I am NOT in the retail business and have no desire to be. If you are interested in what other things I have or been up to. Watch the board for my posts and or call me on the phone. I do Not like typing long emails. I a prefer the phone and I do return calls if a message is left. I am not in the best of health. I post the long tech posts here on TDR to leave a record of reference material behind for after I am gone. If you pull up my past posts you can read about some of the projects that I have done in the past. I often include past fleet clients in the projects to make them possible. It is VARY expensive to make parts in small quantities !!! The last project I did was redesigning the leaking rear main seal. I had to make 1000 of them. The majority were sold to fleet owners before I made them. The last 100 I offered to friends and the members here. I only have a few left. When they are gone that is it. I kept enough to last me for the rest of my life. The fleet sales were what made the project possible. The steering gears is what I am doing now. If I knew anyone that was doing them as well as I do them . I would just buy them. No one's work out there impressed me vary much. So I tooled up and did it myself. I hired a young man to help me in the machine shop. Things are moving along well... I have 12 of them on the road now and a waiting list for 22 more. I am hoping the kid will soon be able to do them without my supervision. I can only be on my feet a couple hours a day for health reasons.



As for the band clamps. The screw type that come with the boot are double wrap clamps for soft rubber. They do not cut into the rubber. . They are over kill for the job but making product changes after a part is released is difficult and expensive... All that is actually needed are zip ties. When the remaining inventory at Chrysler is gone there will be

no more made. current price is 55 or 60. 00. I most likely will remake them when they run out. I checked my inventory the other day. I found that I already have enough to last me the rest of my life. So it will depend on demand weather I will make anymore or not. The brake booster project is picking up speed also . I have a waiting list for them as well.

If you have any immediate needs wants concerns or questions give me a call . . . //MM. Three Zero one - 219-739nine

mysteryman... when you say "I sell... " this or that part or kit... what is the name of your business or how do I find out more about what you sell? You may have alot of things I'd be interested in but am unaware of.



Also on that nice boot... I think some Oetiker stainless crimp clamps would be PERFECT for that application. Those are the OEM type band clamps that you pinch the ear on to tighten them up. Available in many diameters. They are much narrower than the typical worm gear clamps that tend to eat into rubber anyhow. They also maintain constant tension around the diameter and look factory. My 96 full size Bronco used them for the boot on the drive shaft slip splines. Just a thought.

 

[NJTman]

... . I am not in the best of health. I post the long tech posts here on TDR to leave a record of reference material behind for after I am gone. ... . I can only be on my feet a couple hours a day for health reasons.



... ...

If you have any immediate needs wants concerns or questions give me a call . . .

All I can say is



That just made my day ... ... crappy.....











I sincerely wish you the best Mr. MM.

 

[mysteryman]

I may not be in the best of health BUT I am not dead yet ! So don't write me off just yet. I plan on being around for a while longer. I am not terminal by any means but i do have to pay attention to what I do and not over do it .



I have completed the first half of the steering gear video. and are half done with the second half. Stay tuned

for further updates... ///MM

All I can say is



That just made my day ... ... crappy.....











I sincerely wish you the best Mr. MM.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I may not be in the best of health BUT I am not dead yet ! So don't write me off just yet. I plan on being around for a while longer. I am not terminal by any means but i do have to pay attention to what I do and not over do it .



I have completed the first half of the steering gear video. and are half done with the second half. Stay tuned

for further updates... ///MM

Tuned in and waiting.....



God bless,

 

[NJTman]

I may not be in the best of health BUT I am not dead yet ! So don't write me off just yet. I plan on being around for a while longer. I am not terminal by any means but i do have to pay attention to what I do and not over do it .

. . ///MM

Well, I'm very glad for that. I too, at the age of 45 have to watch what I do as well, as the body doesn't recover as it used to... ...

Again, I hope the best for you... .

 

[DVolk]

It isn't fun being a middle aged guy thats for shure !!!! just had my b-day yesterday

 

[Brian D]

mysteryman , I know this is an older post , I have a old Saginaw 708 from 1972 I'd like to get rebuilt. and I'm wondering if you would be interested in doing the rebuild ? Thanks