'15 Nissan Titan pickup will get new Cummins diesel engine

[UpstateNYoilburner]

Aug 20 (Reuters) - The redesigned 2015 Nissan Titan pickup will get a new Cummins V8 turbo-diesel engine, setting up a head-to-head match next year with Chrysler's recently announced Ram 1500 EcoDiesel.

What what what????

 

[UpstateNYoilburner]

The diesel truck skirmish is ironic on several counts.

Chrysler at one time was negotiating to build a version of its full-size Ram pickup for Nissan to replace the Japanese automaker's slow-selling Titan pickup. That deal fell through during Chrysler's 2009 bankruptcy and subsequent acquisition by Italy's Fiat SpA.

Earlier this year, Fred Diaz, who led Chrysler's Ram Truck brand, jumped ship for Nissan North America, where he now heads U. S. sales and marketing for the Nissan brand.

The 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel was announced earlier this summer and is slated to go on sale late this year or early next.

Described by Chrysler as the industry's first light-duty V6 diesel pickup, the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel features a 3. 0-liter V6 turbocharged diesel from Italy's VM Motori, a longtime supplier to Chrysler and an affiliate of the U. S. automaker's corporate parent Fiat SpA.

Cummins, a long-time U. S. supplier of diesel engines to carmakers around the world, continues to make diesel engines for Chrysler's heavy-duty Ram pickups. It has been a Chrysler diesel engine supplier since 1988.

Nissan declined to confirm when its next-generation Titan will go into production, but industry suppliers familiar with the company's plans said they expect the new truck to arrive next year as a 2015 model

The current Titan went into production in late 2003 in Canton, Mississippi. Annual sales in recent years have been just over 20,000. In comparison, the segment leader, Ford's full-size F Series, sold 645,000 last year.

But neither Ford nor General Motors currently offers a diesel engine option in light-duty pickups.

Nissan has said the addition of more body styles and engine options on the next-generation Titan should help boost the truck's appeal.

The automaker said prototypes of the new Titan, which was designed in California and will continue to be built in Mississippi, are undergoing engineering tests on public roads with the Cummins diesel.

The new engine is a turbocharged 5. 0-liter V8 rated at more than 300 horsepower, with torque of around 550 pounds-feet, the company said. A version of the engine also will be marketed by Cummins to other commercial truck makers.

The new engine will be built near Cummins headquarters in Columbus, Indiana, in a factory that dates to the 1920s.

Cummins first announced plans for the V8 diesel in 2006, but delayed development during the industry-wide downturn in 2008-2009.

 

[TDRadmin]

It has been 24 hours since this press release hit the streets, and I guess we are surprised that there hasn't been more discussion about this new engine on the website.



We've made a few assumptions.



First, you are well informed and have known about a Cummins V8 since it was a concept back in the early 2000's. Although that was not the same V8 that will be used by Nissan, we have all followed the V8 engine through the recession days of Daimler Chrysler. As noted above, it is ironic that the Ram 1500 3L Eco Diesel was (initially) developed for General Motors/Cadillac, and now this Nissan 5. 0L diesel was developed for Chrysler/Ram (initially). Turn about is fair play . . . .



Second, with the explosion of social media, digital entertainment (parading as news), and the ability of everyone with a digital toy to parade as an expert on every subject, you might wonder what's really to say anyway.



The thing is, much of the editorializing by those with keyboards has been done by people who never have, nor ever will, own a diesel pickup. Enough said.



We are, however, interested in your thoughts and insights as informed diesel owners.



We'd even like to publish these insights in the magazine for those other TDR Members who are not as digitally savvy or experienced as you. So post your best thoughts - the good, the bad, and the ugly - here.



Thanks, in advance.



Robert Patton

Editor, TDR

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The concept is interesting. I have several questions/comments:



What is the intended "market segment," mileage, towing, etc? Will the power and mileage of the Cummins be a better or worse match than the smaller Fiat engine, for 1/2 ton pickups?

How quickly will Nissan come up to speed with the learning curve to get the drivetrain and the rest of their truck to handle the Cummins power? It took Dodge/Ram a while to balance strength, design, weight, and cost.

With the engine being a new design, might there be a learning curve there, too? We all remember things like the KDP with the B series Cummins.

Why did the Cummins/Ram (Dodge?) partnership not continue? Did Fiat force the use of their diesel for 1/2 ton Rams? Is the Fiat a well-proven design that will match or beat the Cummins offering?

 

[AH64ID]

I am a little surprised at the size and power of the engine.

In a 1/2 ton the biggest benefit, IMHO, of a diesel engine is economy. I personally think a slightly smaller I-6, with a higher revving engine would do a better job than a 5. 0 V8 making 500 ft/lbs. Why not a 4L I-6 making 300/400? 300hp at 4000 rpms is 393 ft/lbs, and much easier to support drivetrain wise, and will still scoot and get good economy.

The drivetrain will have to be much larger, which increases parasitic loss and decreases power.

 

[JR]

I can't remember when there was such a large gap in engine size for two comparably sized trucks at app. 120 Cubic inches. Take the diesels in the HD pick up line, for example. They are all very close together at 6. 7 And 6. 6 Liters. Even when the 7. 3 Was being manufactured that was only a difference of around 85 cubic inches compared to the 5. 9 Cummins, which seemed like quite a stretch at the time. Same goes with all the gas powered rigs, they have always been very close in size and power rating. A 300+ cubic inch diesel in a light half ton with the inital ratings comparable to the 3/4 & 1 ton trucks of only a few years ago just seems out of place. It will be interesting to see advertised horsepower and economy ratings from Nissan/Cummins in the near future.

 

[John Holmes]

I'm glad Cummins has a source for an engine they developed for Chrysler just before bankruptcy and then had to let the whole thing just sit. It would be the only thing that would get me into a Nissan showroom.

 

[DAN V]

I'm glad Cummins has a source for an engine they developed for Chrysler just before bankruptcy and then had to let the whole thing just sit. It would be the only thing that would get me into a Nissan showroom.

I agree with you John. The Cummins is the only thing that will draw me to the Nissan showroom.

 

[MGire]

What's the difference between a 3. 0 liter VM Motori and a 1997 Cummins 5. 9 liter 12 valve... about 15 MPG in favor of the 3. 0 VM. Horse power and torque are pretty much a wash. Just sayin.

 

[DonFitzwater]

"What's the difference between a 3. 0 liter VM Motori and a 1997 Cummins 5. 9 liter 12 valve?"

The Cummins was dead nuts reliable! Jury is still out on the VM Motori as far as the United States is concerned. The engine in my old Liberty was cool until the weather got cold and it wouldn't run due to egr. . I will wait for durability reports on the VM before I start making comparisons to the best diesel truck engine the world has known... ... ... ... ...


I must also add that Nissan has made a very smart move by going with Cummins! I would never purchase a Nissan otherwise (not that I think they are bad vehicles, just don't care for them). This will make a good seller for them just based on the Cummins name recognition only.

 

[NIsaacs]

This new 5. 0 Cummins is a serious power plant and will require a serious pickup. The current 1/2 ton pickups are too light. I see a 5/8 ton in Nissan's future With this kind of power, the 1/2 ton's will need to upgrade like the Ram 3500 has, I would call Ram's new dually a 5/4 ton



Nick

 

[CBlack]

The concept is interesting. I have several questions/comments:

What is the intended "market segment," mileage, towing, etc? Will the power and mileage of the Cummins be a better or worse match than the smaller Fiat engine, for 1/2 ton pickups?
How quickly will Nissan come up to speed with the learning curve to get the drivetrain and the rest of their truck to handle the Cummins power? It took Dodge/Ram a while to balance strength, design, weight, and cost.
With the engine being a new design, might there be a learning curve there, too? We all remember things like the KDP with the B series Cummins.
Why did the Cummins/Ram (Dodge?) partnership not continue? Did Fiat force the use of their diesel for 1/2 ton Rams? Is the Fiat a well-proven design that will match or beat the Cummins offering?

I think the market segment is for the guys/gals who don't want the stiff suspension or higher capacities of the HD trucks. I know a lot of people who have 1/2 ton trucks and get 15-17mpg empty on the highway. They throw their small boat, jet skis etc behind it and it drops to below 10. A few cases it's better but not a lot. With a diesel that will increase. Not to mention overall fuel economy. Apparently the fuel economy on all these gassers just flat out sucks.

The power is far away better than the VW engine. Mileage... yet to be seen. Handle the Cummins power... we don't know what the torque curve will be yet. Who knows it might be gentle enough that even the 47/48/68 can live behind it in stock form.

I'm sure there will be a learning curve. Especially for a completely new engine.

I believe that the Cummins/Ram partnership ended because once Fiat took over they opted for another Italian company to provide the 1/2 ton engine. I think they would have been better off sticking with Cummins.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I hope the Italian diesel works out better than Daimler's G56 when they had Chrysler by the throat.

 

[TFucili]

As I stated in a different thread, I am disappointed that both companies went with a V configuration. A victory of perception over reality, IMHO. As for the engine size difference, only time will tell how each strikes a balance between MPG and tow/haul competence. I am having a serious case of truck withdrawal since I sold my 05 CTD, but my needs have changed. I have been thinking about a half-ton gasser, but am now going to wait at least long enough for the VM to get through sea trials. If it gets seriously good real-world MPG and tows at least as good as a Hemi it may be a winner. The Cummins in the Nissan may turn out to be a beast, but if the MPG is not significantly better than the 6. 7 I-6, then why bother? Who will strike the best balance?!

 

[100 Proof]

I think the vast majority of TDR members bought our trucks because of the Cummins powerplant. I know I did. If the Cummins was in the Ford or Chevy, that's what I'd be driving now. In that spirit, I hope the TDR community embraces the next entrant into the Cummins turbo diesel pickup family and includes a new section (Nissan 1st Gen?) in the magazine and web site.

100 Proof

 

[Bill Stockard]

I have a feeling the VM engine in the Ram 1500 is an omen of things to come... a Fiat Industrial 6. 7L 6-cylinder Tector series diesel engine in Ram 2500/3500 trucks? This engine meets the European Tier VI emission regulations that become effective January 1, 2014 with "SCR Only" technology. "SCR Only" means no Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and no forced regeneration of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) along with "unprecedented fuel economy".

http://www.fiatindustrial.com/en-US...iatDocuments/20110519_EuroVI_FPT_Iveco_EN.pdf



The "powers" at Fiat may be "chaffing" at the millions they send every year to Cummins when the manufacturing profits could be going to one of their own companies.



Look at what happened with CaseIH shortly after Fiat purchased the majority interest in the company from Tenneco. Cummins was dropped as the high horsepower tractor/combine engine supplier and they now use Fiat Industrial/Fiat Powertrain Technology (FPT) diesel engines. Fuel economy went up and they easily met the US Tier IV emission regulations.



As far as a V8 Cummins, I have no problem with it; however, I have no use for or an interest in a 1/2 ton pickup and the present Nissan product would be at the very bottom of my list.



What if Ford in their redesign of the 2015 Ford Super Duty pickups, decides to go with a Cummins and Ram goes to a FPT engine? Might we see who buys Ram because it's a Chrysler product and who buys Cummins with less concern about what's wrapped around it? Hmmm...



Bill

 

[Yo Hoot]

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013...-cummins-v8-for-next-generation-titan-pickup/

 

[Yo Hoot]

I have a feeling the VM engine in the Ram 1500 is an omen of things to come... a Fiat Industrial 6. 7L 6-cylinder Tector series diesel engine in Ram 2500/3500 trucks? This engine meets the European Tier VI emission regulations that become effective January 1, 2014 with "SCR Only" technology. "SCR Only" means no Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and no forced regeneration of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) along with "unprecedented fuel economy".
http://www.fiatindustrial.com/en-US...iatDocuments/20110519_EuroVI_FPT_Iveco_EN.pdf

The "powers" at Fiat may be "chaffing" at the millions they send every year to Cummins when the manufacturing profits could be going to one of their own companies.

Look at what happened with CaseIH shortly after Fiat purchased the majority interest in the company from Tenneco. Cummins was dropped as the high horsepower tractor/combine engine supplier and they now use Fiat Industrial/Fiat Powertrain Technology (FPT) diesel engines. Fuel economy went up and they easily met the US Tier IV emission regulations.

As far as a V8 Cummins, I have no problem with it; however, I have no use for or an interest in a 1/2 ton pickup and the present Nissan product would be at the very bottom of my list.

What if Ford in their redesign of the 2015 Ford Super Duty pickups, decides to go with a Cummins and Ram goes to a FPT engine? Might we see who buys Ram because it's a Chrysler product and who buys Cummins with less concern about what's wrapped around it? Hmmm...

Bill

Ford would do well with a Cummins option for sure.

 

[Wayne M.]

Does anyone remember the last cummins V8?

 

[Jim W]

What I worry about is the new content in a design of the Cummins V8. How much does the V8 have as new components? Anything over 10% would be a red flag to me because the reliability numbers will be out the door. When I was at Caterpillar we always tried to keep the new content of a redesigned product under 10% to keep the reliability numbers in a reasonable level for the customers. By this I mean that some of the product will fail below a certain level of hours and most components would past those hours and not just warranty hours. Even when a new product was introduced the new content of that product was considered and we tried to keep that under 30% level by using components from similar models.
Another point I would labor to make is that the hiring of Fred Diaz did not bring this about. In dealing with large corporations this type of new product introduction started to take place several years ago. The model had to go under a concept design and maybe prototype testing with the results present to the product review board if they agree than the preproduction design work is started, which is going on now. With several key target meetings that will take place that will either kill a product allow it to go into fruition. Look what Chrysler/Ram did in the past with the ½ ton diesel project and what Ford has done.
Jim W.