Secondary 12vdc fan for hot running engine on 2013 Mega cab ......

[Bug Out]

I haven't had the greatest of luck with minor issues on the new RAMS. My 2012 Max tow 3500 dually was a oil/fuel pig..The 2013 2500 was great on oil and MPG, but had the DELL tech support shifting pattern(flare shift) in it.

The latest and greatest RAM of mine, 2013 Mega 4x4 dually that I bought with 27K on the clock in March 2015 has a apparent "running too hot " syndrome when towing. The previous owner, whom I have spoke with several times had the same issues while towing and put it in the shop 2-3x.

I got a peak at the dealer screen yesterday and saw the clutch fan changed at 21K, fuses, upper/lower radiator hoses, and it was in 2-3x. Shortly after, the original owner got rid of it..Gee, I wonder why..

Along comes dumb arse me, and I want back into a dually as the single wheel 2500 pulls great, but the tail (trailer) wags the dog in the wind more then I care for.

Thinking, "what could possibly be wrong with a 2013 with 27K on the clock", well now I know.

Its currently in Bill Luke Chrysler in Phoenix. Of course, they drove it around empty, probably dogging it etc for 20 minutes and it did not run hot...It runs great empty..

I explained as clearly as a human being can, " I have owned 2 previous RAMS and this one, the clutch fan is not engaging like it should.." I explained its the same load trailer, etc and this truck runs at 210+ on average and the transmission temps climb to 200+- a few degree's. My other two when the engine got to 210+- the clutch fan would kick on like a turbo prop and cool the engine back to 195-200 in a hurry. The trannys would stay around 190-195MAX.. They would cool down further while under way, but this transmission does not.

(Of course the service advisor looks at me like I'm from Mars, and the tech who happened to be in his office at the time looked at me like I was from Pluto)

The clutch fan comes on enough to hear it cycle, motor cools to 205ish then cuts off. This goes on the whole while.Once every 10 cycles, the clutch fan kicks on full bore like the other trucks, and it cools to below 200, but resumes it pitiful poor cycles again.

I am praying to the RAM Gods that a Tech at Bill Luke may figure it out. I would get rid of it, but I don't have the $$ to.

Some my options are: I'm stuck with miss hot pants here until I can offload it 2 years down the road. On goes a Mag hytec transmission pan to pull heat from it, and then a secondary 12VDC fan in front of the radiator to try and cool it off, if Bill Luke techs don't figure it out..

What type brand cooling fan would be best for this thing until I can offload it a couple years down the road?


Thanks for any help in advance.

 

[gsbrockman]

Trailer size & weight???? Your numbers don't seem to far off IMO......

 

[Bug Out]

same trailer my 2012 and 2013 towed with no issues. Heat would stay at 200ish, transmission 190-195. 16900gw toy hauler. Compared to my first two RAMS ,it running average engine 15+- hotter, transmission 10+ sometimes more. If I knew how, I'd show you a pic of engine temp 224 and transmission 204 and oil 239degree's.

 

[gsbrockman]

I wonder if the coolant was properly re-filled / vacuumed when the hoses were replaced??? I wonder if the dealer installed the correct (OAT) coolant as opposed to the incorrect coolant (HOAT) ???

Read this thread http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2...-failure-94-914-miles-my-2014-ram-3500-a.html particularly posts #7, #14, and #16.

 

[slingshot383]

210* is normal operating temperature. You could benefit from an additional transmission cooler, but your engine temps is fine. Don't think like the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's, these engine are designed to run at these temps. If it stays below 225* your fine.

 

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, seems pretty normal for me too, transmission has often the same Temp as Engine because of the Water/Oil heat exchanger.
Higher Engine Temps then 10 or more years ago are because of exhaust regulations. They need it to hold the values.

 

[Bug Out]

They just told me that.. Even 225 on engine is fine. I guess I was lucky on my first two....At 225 put the temp gauge near 7/8's of HOT..oh well. thats the way it goes.

 

[kthaxton]

Yeah, to me it sounds like it is doing what it is supposed to do (engage the fan clutch when hot, disengage once a predetermined temp is reached).

At 225 put the temp gauge near 7/8's of HOT..oh well. thats the way it goes.

That part is weird. On my 2015, normal unloaded driving puts my temp around 190º-ish, and the manual dial gauges shows this as just below the middle, normal temp of the gauge. When I tow and the temp reaches 220º, the dial gauge shows just over the mid-point of the gauge....well below the "red" portion.

 

[Bug Out]

I was comparing this truck with my previous 2 RAMS I purchased. 1-2012 1-2013 same drive lines. It should be a relief to everyone to know, the head mechanic said they (Chrysler) probably changed the way the fan works because of complaints about it being too loud...........Kinda similar to the flare shift of 2013 vs the firm shift of the 2012 68 RFE......It will throw a code at 247 degree's. So I'm in safe territory now.

 

[rashwor]

I played with my '05 some in relation to engine temp because I felt like it was running warm towing in the summer. At one of my coolant changes, I put in a 180* thermostat instead of the factory 190* thermostat. With the 190* stat it will run 205* - 210* towing 14000. Did the same with the 180* stat to my surprise. You could really tell the difference in the winter time. There was a very noticeable difference in the in-cab heat between the 180* stat and 190* stat. When my first water pump went out, I went back to the 190* stat.

I figured out that the real reason it runs 205 - 210* towing has to do with where the fan is programmed to engage. The fan makes a bigger difference than the thermostat when towing. These trucks are set up to run pretty warm when towing due to emission requirements.

This really does not pertain to this thread, but I thought it was a good place to post my related experience with summer towing. Flame suit on.

 

[Bug Out]

rashwor, I had a 2005 3500 4dr dually that I wish I would have kept. It used to pull long 6% grades and get up past 215-220 temp. I would turn the A/C off and turn on the interior heater to cool the engine off..LOL

Like I said before, the previous 2 RAMS never got near as hot as this one....

 

[Cummins12V98]

Here is 32,500# combined on a hot day pulling a long grade. Asian trans.

 

[Tuesdak]

If you looked for 5.9's in the past you have seen the bait and switch Bill Luke Chrysler in Phoenix is known for. Put a used truck up on the ads (CL, Autotrader, etc.) you can't go in and buy. With that experience I wouldn't let them fix a kid's red wagon! One earns trust and all, but, blatantly ruining the opportunity and proving what kind of place it is...

I have had good luck with Earnhardt's in Gilbert.

What is your peak ECT when towing? No I am not talking about heater on AC off as that is a survival situation in AZ...

The electric fan may help your AC performance, but, will be nothing but a restriction at highway speed. Even if it did help it would just delay the engine fan from coming on at a specific programmed temp.

This is your real answer: Finding out what temp the ECM commands what fan %. Then the ECM waits 2min for the fan to reach that % of RPM before triggering a code.

You can check some other things like fan shroud installed properly and all other stack seals and air ducting/diverters in place.

Sure the engines may run hotter, but, the bean counters didn't help you out much with that. Same cheap parts like heater and radiator hoses that can't take the extended heat. The 2008 Duramax we had ran 235 ECT normally towing because it didn't kick out of double overdrive on a slight grade. Heater hose split from 100K miles of high heat exposure and the passenger side battery boiled dry in 88K or 1.5 years from new. IMO the RAM's have better cooling setups with a computer controlled fan (vs. the S L O W obsolete spring thermal clutch GM was using in 2008) that can respond quicker. Of course the computer can be programmed to run hot.

I did learn that conventional oil has limits. So watching your engine run hot I suggest switching to synthetic oil. I have had low oil pressure alarms and oil that was ruined via UOA. GM's solution was to further buffer the alarm from the low oil pressure spike when shifting from park to drive after dropping off the trailer in 121 degree weather with the AC on high.

 

[kthaxton]

Also somewhat unrelated to the original topic....

With the 190* stat it will run 205* - 210* towing 14000. Did the same with the 180* stat to my surprise. .

This represents a common misunderstanding of how a cooling system works.....and your results should not be a surprise.

If a cooling system can't maintain 190º, it certainly can't maintain 180º simply because you put a lower temp t-stat in. If a cooling system is already running at a temp above the t-stats opening temperature, a lower temp t-stat is not going to accomplish anything, other than it will stay open sooner.

A constantly open 180º t-stat will perform exactly the same as a constantly open 190º t-stat, neither will influence the cooling system at this point until the cooling system can catch up.

 

[rashwor]

Also somewhat unrelated to the original topic....



This represents a common misunderstanding of how a cooling system works.....and your results should not be a surprise.

If a cooling system can't maintain 190º, it certainly can't maintain 180º simply because you put a lower temp t-stat in. If a cooling system is already running at a temp above the t-stats opening temperature, a lower temp t-stat is not going to accomplish anything, other than it will stay open sooner.

A constantly open 180º t-stat will perform exactly the same as a constantly open 190º t-stat, neither will influence the cooling system at this point until the cooling system can catch up.

Correct with the exception of "misunderstanding".

 

[Cummins12V98]

BugOut

Does your 13 have dual radiators?

Makes me wonder if they decided they were not a good idea since mine is not a dual radiator.

 

[Bug Out]

JDoremire, The highest it has gone without the clutch fan kicking in was, 225degree's. The transmission was on the march upward past 200 and oil was at 239 degree's.
The clutch fan is erratic at best. Unfortunately, I am comparing to my previous two RAMS, more so to the 2500 2013 I traded for this heathen...


I use Shell Rotella T-6 synthetic. I figure since I go 10K between changes, it costs the same as changing dino oil every 5K.

 

[High Voltage]

I Think your fine, pulling grade with the 5 wheel and boat a little over 18k out side temp was 103 coolant temp was 215 trans 192 and oil 230, it was the hottest it got, runs that those temps all
the time when pulling long grades..

 

[Bug Out]

Cummins12v98, I dont know.... They may be using the second radiators in those Fiat 500 jobs...:-laf

 

[Bug Out]

High Voltage, that what my other two used to run at...transmission never went over 200 on the road..