Rural Land Homesite

[RUSSELL5000]

My wife and I have been looking at buying a parcel of land in a rural area on which to build a retirement home and garage as a “home base”. We found a parcel in a rural area at a reasonable price that has many of the attributes we are looking for. I am not sure where to go next with this, but my impression is that many members here have been down this road before.

Is there a good forum like this one from which I could learn?

We are looking at a twelve acre parcel bordered by a paved road. Electric poles run along the edge of the property on the side of the paved road. Is there more involved to getting electricity than calling the utility company and asking them to set a pole, run a line, and set a meter?

How does one get a percolation test for a septic system done?

This parcel of land has a small rise and then slopes down to a small creek at the far edge of the property. The creek was about two feet wide – you can step over it. It may dry up in the summer. Nonetheless, this makes me think that sinking a well will likely be successful. Is this poor thinking?

Thanks!!

 

[mweiman]

I would imagine that you would be responsible for part of the electricity cost. Septic requirements will vary from state to state, I know in IL only certain plumbers have the license to do septic installation. I know in IL it is handled by the state health department, so they may be able to help also. How much of this type of work do you plan to do yourself? Your best bet may be to talk with the electrician and plumbers that you plan to use when the time comes.
Matt

 

[mwilson]

In Maine it works like this...

(1) Power.....You will be responsible for the cost of poles and installation, also the maintenance of the lines including tree trimming after the first pole. So if you are not going to build close to the highway you need an estimate for the cost of above. That's why houses on big lots tend to be fairly close (couple poles away) to the power lines.

(2) Perc test.....if the lot is for sale the seller usually has had a perc test performed on each of the lots for sale. It will be mapped out using the guidelines as to where a normal person would probably place the home.....if no perc test OR offer to have one performed before the sale I would be leery..Or if you would place the house in a different location on the lot...There are two lots on our road that are not sale-able as house lots due to perc test failures....

(3) Water....not knowing the area I can only give you a few tips.....call the well drillers in the area, they know what the depth and cost would likely be from similar wells in the vicinity...if they say "We don't quote wells in that area, it costs what it costs" you then know that there has been trouble, extremely deep expensive wells, not enough reserve, etc...Also talk to any neighbors about their water wells, how deep they are, Gallons per minute, cost to drill, worth some time and free beer if you can get them to talk...

 

[Cooper_D]

Here the county did the perc test.

Some things to think about:

If the wooded area is close to farmland than it might not have been cleared for farming if it becomes "swampland" after a rain.
The creek might be a hint at that.

There are different types of septic leach beds 1 in ground & 2 a mound design for wet areas. So there are options.

Every time it rains go to the property and walk where you think you will be putting the driveway.
You don't want to drive through 5 inches of water get out or home.

Where I live the county has a web site that shows all properties and how it is listed ( flood zone etc) so get online to see.

Even though we live on a hill in the middle of a farm we could only dig our basement so deep because of a high water table.
You don't want to have to run 2 sump pumps 24/7 to keep it dry.

Is this area a farm being divided? Will you eventually have 20 neighbors you didn't know you would have?

Your county should be able to answer the questions you listed above.

If you are having a house built than your builder should be able to help as well.

Follow the creek up stream to see what might be going into it.

Hope I did not scare you.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thanks, guys.

I looked at the FEMA flood zone map - the parcel is in the unshaded area (i.e., not in a flood zone).

Yesterday we walked around and looked at where the little creek originates - it looks like it comes out of this wooded area. The woods are quite dense and we cannot tell exactly where it originates without really going into the other property - which I did not want to do without permission. It does look like we are close to the origin, based on what I can see on Google maps.

This is a particular parcel surrounded by parcels of generally equal or greater size. Some parcels are wooded and some are working fields. It is not a farm being subdivided. There is a mix of housing in the area - there are some quite recent homes, there are some older homes. Some of the older homes are decaying away, some are being maintained. It appears there are a couple of camps in some wooded parcels within a mile of this one. It looks like there are a couple of farms that are active, going concerns and some others which appear to be abandoned. Most of the home areas are fairly well ordered; there a few within a few miles drive that have junk around the home area (you cannot see any of these from this parcel). It is impossible to read the future, but I do not foresee the area attracting additional people. Across the road at the corner of this parcel is a small cemetery that someone is maintaining nicely. It had been raining when we went to the parcel Saturday afternoon - the rise area where you can drive onto the parcel was not "marshy" at all. It looks like two-thirds of the parcel is being used to hay - it is clear that it is cut.

Thanks for the tip about the perc test and calling a well drilling contractor - I'll get on that.


Thanks!

 

[BIGNASTY]

Here the county did the perc test.

Some things to think about:

If the wooded area is close to farmland than it might not have been cleared for farming if it becomes "swampland" after a rain.
The creek might be a hint at that.

There are different types of septic leach beds 1 in ground & 2 a mound design for wet areas. So there are options.

Every time it rains go to the property and walk where you think you will be putting the driveway.
You don't want to drive through 5 inches of water get out or home.

Where I live the county has a web site that shows all properties and how it is listed ( flood zone etc) so get online to see.

Even though we live on a hill in the middle of a farm we could only dig our basement so deep because of a high water table.
You don't want to have to run 2 sump pumps 24/7 to keep it dry.

Is this area a farm being divided? Will you eventually have 20 neighbors you didn't know you would have?

Your county should be able to answer the questions you listed above.

If you are having a house built than your builder should be able to help as well.

Follow the creek up stream to see what might be going into it.

Hope I did not scare you.

WORDS TO LIVE BY above sounds like he's done it at LEAST ONCE

I might add if the power company is a State ran or privately owned. Our option was a Privately own option they are very sketchy about fixing what needs to be done, during the winter when power lines snap and your without power for weeks at a time, THAT IS NOT AN OPTION, Most often if its a State or County ran company they are held to a different standard because of the Utilities Commission within that State or County.

Cost was about the same as our Off Grid, Solar, Wind, Powered Generator System AND WE OWN IT without making payments each month and then cost increases to up grade THEIR POWER TRANSMISSION LINES to supply you with unreliable power.

They charge,per pole,per foot, Transformer, Meter, connection to THEIR GRID Box. Maint.fees up the wazoo for about the same amount as having their unreliable power we chose to use install our own. Yes it does take some getting use to and building a house to use the OFF GRID power is unlike normal home electrical installation but if I can do it im sure that anyone can do it without much assistance.

BIG

 

[jhenderson]

Depending on cost you might consider burying your power lines. Poles add up. And there's no such thing as trimming or power outage from a dropped entrance line

 

[Cooper_D]

Thanks, guys.

I looked at the FEMA flood zone map - the parcel is in the unshaded area (i.e., not in a flood zone).

Yesterday we walked around and looked at where the little creek originates - it looks like it comes out of this wooded area. The woods are quite dense and we cannot tell exactly where it originates without really going into the other property - which I did not want to do without permission. It does look like we are close to the origin, based on what I can see on Google maps.

This is a particular parcel surrounded by parcels of generally equal or greater size. Some parcels are wooded and some are working fields. It is not a farm being subdivided. There is a mix of housing in the area - there are some quite recent homes, there are some older homes. Some of the older homes are decaying away, some are being maintained. It appears there are a couple of camps in some wooded parcels within a mile of this one. It looks like there are a couple of farms that are active, going concerns and some others which appear to be abandoned. Most of the home areas are fairly well ordered; there a few within a few miles drive that have junk around the home area (you cannot see any of these from this parcel). It is impossible to read the future, but I do not foresee the area attracting additional people. Across the road at the corner of this parcel is a small cemetery that someone is maintaining nicely. It had been raining when we went to the parcel Saturday afternoon - the rise area where you can drive onto the parcel was not "marshy" at all. It looks like two-thirds of the parcel is being used to hay - it is clear that it is cut.

Thanks for the tip about the perc test and calling a well drilling contractor - I'll get on that.


Thanks!

Sounds as if you are on the right track, and some neighbors you can ask questions.

Where we are our, and our neighbors, wells are in the 55-60 foot range.

 

[Cooper_D]

WORDS TO LIVE BY above sounds like he's done it at LEAST ONCE

I might add if the power company is a State ran or privately owned. Our option was a Privately own option they are very sketchy about fixing what needs to be done, during the winter when power lines snap and your without power for weeks at a time, THAT IS NOT AN OPTION, Most often if its a State or County ran company they are held to a different standard because of the Utilities Commission within that State or County.

Cost was about the same as our Off Grid, Solar, Wind, Powered Generator System AND WE OWN IT without making payments each month and then cost increases to up grade THEIR POWER TRANSMISSION LINES to supply you with unreliable power.

They charge,per pole,per foot, Transformer, Meter, connection to THEIR GRID Box. Maint.fees up the wazoo for about the same amount as having their unreliable power we chose to use install our own. Yes it does take some getting use to and building a house to use the OFF GRID power is unlike normal home electrical installation but if I can do it im sure that anyone can do it without much assistance.

BIG

Thanks Big!

We built in 1979 and if I knew than what I know now things would be done a little differently.

My boss had his 50 year old house declared a flood zone so rather than pay for government flood insurance he and his neighbors hired an attorney to fight it. After surveying etc he won the case.
He sold his house & built in a new development only to have a sump pump run almost 24/7.

Our electric co is very reliable but I keep looking at windmills what kind did you install?

 

[JR]

Sometimes it is cheaper to find a parcel developed or at least partially developed. Your septic will probably be the biggest expense unless you plan on building back off the road quite a bit.

If your property is at the edge of a field you'll definitely want to make sure if the field is tiled your not the recipient of all the run off. If it was done right it should drain to a ditch or creek but that's not always the case.

 

[KPotter]

Check with the local township building inspector, They can give you the approx cost for your lot. Also the realtor should know what the average costs are for developing the lot.
Remember to shop around for prices on the well drilling, septic lot clearing. Good luck with your adventure.

 

[TFucili]

Lots of good suggestions already. I would add that you may want to look into what is required to get a driveway opening permit, if required. LONG STORY: On my last house the county was being very, very difficult about line of sight distances,, etc. This was a on a dang road that was literally a stage coach trail at one time, the barn on my property had been the livery stable, and the neighbor across the road at that point was in a historical house that was the stage coach stop. I was adamant that I didn't want to disturb land in tillage just to satisfy their ridiculous demands. As luck would have it, they decided they wanted to realign the road since the city slickers moving in couldn't seem to keep from running off in the weeds. To do this, they needed a strip of land from me, which I used as a bargaining chip, and they were all too happy to issue my permit. It was ever so satisfying to have "the man" over the barrel, so to speak.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Again, thanks to all. Much food for that, and I clearly have a good deal of larnin' to do.

 

[moparguy]

I wouldn't buy without the minerals. If the owner wants to keep minerals then the price goes down considerably. It's not the loss of potential royalties but the possibility that any drilling or road building necessary to support drilling can happen with very little consideration to your wishes even though you own the surface rights. Mineral rights trump surface rights.....in other words depending on how smart the seller of the mineral rights was (as to what clauses did he negotiate with the mineral agent), it's very possible the "Company" can build a well pad, or pipeline, or road anywhere that want....even within a couple hundred feet of a house or well. As a surface owner you may have zero input on well or support facilities location.

Good Luck, Ron

 

[Cooper_D]

I wouldn't buy without the minerals. If the owner wants to keep minerals then the price goes down considerably. It's not the loss of potential royalties but the possibility that any drilling or road building necessary to support drilling can happen with very little consideration to your wishes even though you own the surface rights. Mineral rights trump surface rights.....in other words depending on how smart the seller of the mineral rights was (as to what clauses did he negotiate with the mineral agent), it's very possible the "Company" can build a well pad, or pipeline, or road anywhere that want....even within a couple hundred feet of a house or well. As a surface owner you may have zero input on well or support facilities location.

Good Luck, Ron

Great point about mineral rights I had forgotten about those.

 

[Cooper_D]

After figuring all costs for starting from scratch look into one of those old worn out homes in the area that has a good driveway, good septic system, a drilled well ( not a hand dug well ), electric etc. and replace the old house with a new one.

But I just opened another can of worms.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Thanks Big!

We built in 1979 and if I knew than what I know now things would be done a little differently.

My boss had his 50 year old house declared a flood zone so rather than pay for government flood insurance he and his neighbors hired an attorney to fight it. After surveying etc he won the case.
He sold his house & built in a new development only to have a sump pump run almost 24/7.

Our electric co is very reliable but I keep looking at windmills what kind did you install?

http://www.hardysolar.com/off-grid/homesteader-off-grid-system-3.html

Ours is a bit larger in some respects than the link, I added more Batt's and more solar panels. Our Gen set is also a Chevy Vortex 4Cyl LP Gas motor. The reason I went gas was that I didn't want the hassle of messing with Diesel fuel additive during the long winters. If your looking at a wind gen there are lots of good ones that take very mild wind more of a breeze to turn the blades. So far I have had to use the Gen set only during parties when power consumption is going to take a toll on the Batt's. I do fire it up several times a year just to keep things lubed up and to make sure the automatic start circuitry actually works.

Our Coop electrical company REALLY SUCKS they don't care how long your down and without power. My SIL started a Restaurant in town recently, she has huge freezers for perishables. I convinced her to get with Cummins or Cat and get a gen set big enough to run her freezers at a minimum, ITS BEEN A GREAT Investment for her last winter the power was out for weeks several times and she was up and running serving dinner to the towns people that were left in the cold at their home.

Somebody said to bury the electrical, that could be an option but where its really cold for a long time the ground is like concrete pretty far down. I ran our connector cables underground and I went to China deep. I don't like doing things twice BTJM.

Someone also talked about septic systems, I went with two thoughts on the systems, there is the standard gravity flow Septic system that EVERYONE has seen and they work well enough with minimal maint. for many years.

I went under advisement of our Nephew ( the local Master Plumer, Well digger, Septic system Guru) with the Dosing Type Septic system, I put a link to it, its better that its workings is read rather than me trying to explain it a screw up the explanation. Basically it will make the leach lines last MUCH LONGER before they need to be replaced or fixed. SOMETHING THAT I HOPE THAT I NEVER WILL NEED TO DO. I really don't like to work around the end product of the Septic System.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6507637_septic-system-dosing-system-work_.html

 

[Cooper_D]

Thanks for the link!
It will be awhile before I can go that route but I do appreciate the info.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I will enjoy those links as well.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Cooper_D,

I am leery of buying an old, decaying home. I am concerned that it would be more work and expense to restore the septic system, well, etc. Also, the possibilities I have seen had a small junkyard surrounding the home.

I looked at a parcel that had a driveway, electric pole, and well. It was on a hill, nice view and land. But people had been backing up to the edge of the hill and dumping stuff. There was a lot of construction scrap, but who can say what else was thrown down the hill?

I have not yet seen an "forsaken home" parcel I would want to get involved in.

It seems like it should work, but no feasible offerings so far.