Factory Oil & Weight

[Newsa]

I thought the valvoline premium extreme went from from group 3 to group 4. But I might be mistaken.

Thanks for correcting me.

 

[Killer223]

If it had its news to me as well, I'll look into it, if you find a link please post it.

 

[Newsa]

If it had its news to me as well, I'll look into it, if you find a link please post it.

Their product info sheet says they use synthetic base stocks. I thought this qualified them as group IV?

 

[jhenderson]

Cummins gave valvoline permission to put their "C" on it. And i think this was before Rotella even existed?

Wrong on both counts. Cummins didn't " Give " Valvoline permission. In the early 90s Cummins sold it to them through a series of marketing agreements that got Valvoline exclusive rights in Cummins service centers. Cummins would have done the same for Shell or anyone else whose oil met specs. Next, Rotella has been a marketed brand sence the 70s. Long before Cummins made their deal with Valvoline.

 

[Newsa]

Cummins gave valvoline permission to put their "C" on it. And i think this was before Rotella even existed?

Wrong on both counts. Cummins didn't " Give " Valvoline permission. In the early 90s Cummins sold it to them through a series of marketing agreements that got Valvoline exclusive rights in Cummins service centers. Cummins would have done the same for Shell or anyone else whose oil met specs. Next, Rotella has been a marketed brand sence the 70s. Long before Cummins made their deal with Valvoline.

I doubt they would have given Shell Rotella rights (or even sold them rights) . The first formulations were not compatible with most new cars/vehicles in the 70's because it clogged up catalytic converters.

The new product is a good oil. But for the same price, I will buy Valvoline.

Is the 5000 mile extension on drain interval for the ISX also a marketing ploy?

 

[Newsa]

Cummins gave valvoline permission to put their "C" on it. And i think this was before Rotella even existed?

Wrong on both counts. Cummins didn't " Give " Valvoline permission. In the early 90s Cummins sold it to them through a series of marketing agreements that got Valvoline exclusive rights in Cummins service centers. Cummins would have done the same for Shell or anyone else whose oil met specs. Next, Rotella has been a marketed brand sence the 70s. Long before Cummins made their deal with Valvoline.

I doubt they would have given Shell Rotella rights (or even sold them rights) . The first formulations were not compatible with most new cars/vehicles in the 70's because it clogged up catalytic converters.

The new product is a good oil. But for the same price, I will buy Valvoline.

Is the 5000 mile extension on drain interval for the ISX also a marketing ploy?

 

[jhenderson]

I doubt they would have given Shell Rotella rights (or even sold them rights) . The first formulations were not compatible with most new cars/vehicles in the 70's because it clogged up catalytic converters.

The new product is a good oil. But for the same price, I will buy Valvoline.

Is the 5000 mile extension on drain interval for the ISX also a marketing ploy?

Please, oh please tell us all about the cats on 1970s diesels. Then you can go to the Cummins ISX maint guide and find that you may only extend drain intervals with appropriate oil sampling. That same claim made by Valvoline would be valid for any syn oil.

 

[Newsa]

I don't believe all synthetics are the same. They have widely differing base stocks and different additive packages. You get what you pay for.

 

[Newsa]

No oil companies sold designated diesel motor oils to the US public until the 90's.

There simply wasn't a market for it. The old diesel VW rabbits just used motor oil designed for gasoline engines.

It was in the 90's that Valvoline started adding some more detergents/additives to deal with diesel soot. Can't find any proof of a financial transaction between Cummins and Valvoline. There is speculation, tho.

 

[NIsaacs]

No oil companies sold designated diesel motor oils to the US public until the 90's.

There simply wasn't a market for it. The old diesel VW rabbits just used motor oil designed for gasoline engines.

Are you discussing synthetic here or including conventional oil too? I used Conoco "series 3" diesel engine oil in all diesel powered vehicles at the Allis-Chalmers dealership I worked at, starting in 1969.

Nick

 

[JR]

Diesel specific engine oil has definitely been around a long time. Schaeffer oil I believe is the oldest, getting their start making grease for wagon wheels out of animal fat (before oil was even discovered).
I also remember reading an article on the origins of Mobil Delvac. Details are a little fuzzy but in the 1920's a company called Vacuum Oil which was a sister company to Exxon Mobil began producing diesel specific oil in response to the diesel boom. The spin off of that brand was named Mobil Delvac.

 

[NIsaacs]

JR, do you know if Schaeffer's makes Sinopec? It is on sale for $375 per 55 gallon drum, free shipping, thats $6.80 per gallon With 7 diesel powered rigs I need one of these, just a pain to deal with tho. But maybe for the price I can learn to deal with it

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjQ6N-i5b3WAhVGZX4KHblBBE8YABABGgJwYw&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASEuRoPoNDy2w5198EDpZXYCqnbw&sig=AOD64_0Zspyat-Jyt68Lsv-R6Nx8vTvjzg&adurl=&ctype=5&q=&nb=0&res_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3B_ylt%3DA0SO80ean8dZUP0AvAFXNyoA%3B_ylc%3DX1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10BGdwcmlkA25NWmR6U3hOVDFDZWdVa013dlprdkEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzEwBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMxBHBxc3RyA3NoYWZmZXJzBHBxc3RybAM4BHFzdHJsAzE0BHF1ZXJ5A3NoYWZmZXJzJTIwb2lsBHRfc3RtcAMxNTA2MjUxMzI5BHVzZV9jYXNlAw--%3Fp%3Dshaffers%2Boil%26fr2%3Dsa-gp-search%26fr%3Dyfp-t%26fp%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Dvacuum%2Boil%26fr%3Dyfp-t%26fp%3D1%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3Dmss%26ei%3DUTF-8&nm=16&is=428x408&nx=41&ny=9&clkt=115&bg=!rK-lr7dEcdj2c8Q8XV4CAAABM1IAAABMCgAwNuljYSXWu72a_NqGY7Bpos599RG6yqVMUNBRDd0jJFPaevfNyHedbwcetcOPvs_5mQD5jVQCRDryJxBl3EKduLDO9e-7P5bzEfacycrXCIpZv_v2V2OKCspaeAo_NGILSFyUJx94gzJgklEA8ZadHtvwQHCaylNKmdGrYwlKrnnlbBnOLnp7otg-4yJGHj4aqTLUhuyucIj5NSqRFyRJIEkYud5mHsgUajGRX1moh6SNHJXZayo5yoG0CXqxjK1JYHhXBPPiiawZW-VbFH3UcscuWPfcuTGvM495lOFpria5mjxKqFimTIX7lKPLU9fyJw9gkITtIWAODwPY7nwbg12ILaIFJBF765-AEyAcKbWgIqdqtcPDCDmhU6UNeDaF7s7r8OJhIHYF_rHb

Nick

 

[JR]

Schaeffers used to be a "jobber" or make oil for other companies but they quit doing that years ago. Not sure who makes that one, I see it is CI4 rated which would be fine for pre emission engines.

Just did a quick search, now it makes sense how they can sell it so cheap :-laf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinopec

 

[Newsa]

Are you discussing synthetic here or including conventional oil too? I used Conoco "series 3" diesel engine oil in all diesel powered vehicles at the Allis-Chalmers dealership I worked at, starting in 1969.

Nick

My friends dad could find dino at "Farm & Fleet" or a tractor dealership. I don"t consider that the general public.

General public just bought a separate ad package and added it to regular motor oil for gas engines.

 

[NIsaacs]

Schaeffers used to be a "jobber" or make oil for other companies but they quit doing that years ago. Not sure who makes that one, I see it is CI4 rated which would be fine for pre emission engines.

Just did a quick search, now it makes sense how they can sell it so cheap :-laf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinopec

Ohhhh, thats just gross! Thanks for the info.

Nick

 

[jhenderson]

My friends dad could find dino at "Farm & Fleet" or a tractor dealership. I don"t consider that the general public.

General public just bought a separate ad package and added it to regular motor oil for gas engines.

What you consider is not the truth. The truth is diesel oil has been around longer than you. What do you think truck drivers were pouring into their 318 detroits while you were soiling your diapers? You're talking through your hat as usual, and got caught, as usual. Now how about all those cats on those 70s diesel motors?

 

[Newsa]

What you consider is not the truth. The truth is diesel oil has been around longer than you. What do you think truck drivers were pouring into their 318 detroits while you were soiling your diapers? You're talking through your hat as usual, and got caught, as usual. Now how about all those cats on those 70s diesel motors?

Yes, it was available at farm and truck suppliers. Not easily attainable to someone who did not have a farm/trucker (or dealer) supplier near them. And that was before the internet, so if you did not live in a farming community, it wasn't easily accessible. Most people didn’t make a trip out of their way to purchase just motor oil. So they bought motor oil for gasoline engines and purchased a diesel additive package to add to their regular motor oil.

As for catalytic converters, diesels didn't have hardly any emissions back then. But Rotella intended to sell oil for gasoline engines because the only market for diesel oils was truckers and farmers. Truckers and farmers are not the general public.

I believe once they started requiring cats on cars, VW had to stop selling their diesel rabbits in the US? Not sure about that, tho

 

[Newsa]

Here is a post from a shell tech on a BWW forum.

Now Rotella is selling as a diesel-specific oil. But that was not always the case.

This was posted in 2014.



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Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
Thread: Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
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m5hoot's Avatar
m5hoot said:
12-04-2014 01:28 PM
Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
I read many excellent reviews of Shell Rotella T6 wide-viscosity, full-synthetic heavy duty motor oil which fares well against all comers including Valvoline, Mobil one, etc. Iy is cheap at $21 bucks a gallon and when ordering 3 gallons, shipping to your home is free and those shopping at Wal-Mart know how hard it is to get anything in stock besides 10W-30. If you want 5W-40 0r 10W-50 on the shelf, forget it. By ordering 3 gallons at a time, you can get any viscosity you want and free shipping to your door. I have used Rotella T6 full synthetic in my 540 with great results. Admitted, I don't pay enough attention to specs on jugs. It is on Wal-Marts shelf right between Valvoline full synthetic and Mobile One. Jug say heavy duty Engine oil. I have older jugs that also say just HD engine oil. Now, ad on Wal-Mart shows just like my old jugs, the case that arrived at my door shows jugs saying HD engine oil, but upon opening case, the jugs NOW say HD DIESEL engine oil. I called Shell for their take and their official stance and I have email with man's name at Shell saying in no uncertain terms that Rotella T6 is for off road vehicles only such as diesel tractors. They claim Heavy Duty is synonymous with DIESEL and that since the year 200 when new federal phosphate regulations came into play, they officially do NOT recommend this oil for any automobile bearing a catalytic convertor. I know Wal-Mart is not aware of this and gives expensive shelf space in the automotive oil section. Lesson is to read specs, but Shell is purposely allowing consumers to belief their oil is automotive safe. Shell guy said you must switch to Pennzoil products to get a shell full synthetic for cars.

I know many swear by the pil spec. and would not use full syn. even in a 528, but Rotella is guilty of being misleading at best. Maybe BMW owners should be more savvy and spec oriented, but what about Joe Chevy owner who has no idea of the oil spec for his Cavalier and buys this. Do they really expect the average user to be able to recite their oil spec? My Bad completely, but I also think Shell is making absolutely bo attempt to indicate this is for diesel engines, farm tractors, etc,. Not for on-road vehicles. I have the official response which skirts the issue, but essentially says what I am telling you. Anyone else use Rotella T6 full synthetic in their non M5 cars?
Old, contrary, and out-of-touch,
but still learning sumpin' every day
NOTORIOUSLY long-winded :-(

Mike WW's Avatar
Mike WW said:
12-04-2014 01:45 PM
Oil threads can get more passionate than political ones, but I'll throw my .02 out there. If you're not using oil, and my E39 at ~250 does not use any that I can tell, it's a non issue, it's not even getting to the cat. This is also more applicable to newer cats, which E39s probably qualify as, although historically they have been much more robust than many other brands, hence they're high value as scrap. Now take your hypothetical Chevy Cavalier burning thru 4 quarts every change and a light duty cat, yeah, it's probably a big issue.
98 328is
02 525ita
80 528i
81 528ia
and decades of owning and driving BMWs

Arkum's Avatar
Arkum said:
12-04-2014 02:32 PM
I also used the Shell rotella T6 in my sport bike and never had any issues and I was thinking about using it in my 540. So you and shell are saying that using it will cause damage to the cats? But wouldn't that be the case for any oil going into the cats?

rf900rkw's Avatar
rf900rkw said:
12-04-2014 02:39 PM
It has been mentioned in more than one oil thread here that the Shell is a diesel only oil, containing too much phosphor and zinc to be used in a cat equipped gasoline engine. the info has always been waved off by the awesome lubrication engineers that hang around here.


/.randy

auaq's Avatar
auaq said:
12-04-2014 03:28 PM




m5hoot's Avatar
m5hoot said:
12-04-2014 04:15 PM
-- email address removed --
2:01 PM (23 hours ago
to me

Hello Mr. Liedtke,

I certainly appreciate your support of Rotella and would not argue with your successful use. Rotella T6 packaging has change a bit to emphasize diesel as the primary market. The product specifications have not since the 2007 upgraded to the latest API diesel specification, CJ-4. Rotella does have gasoline engine applications, but not modern vehicles which have restrictions on Phosphorus to help protect their catalytic convertors. Please be guided by your owner’s manual when selecting the correct oil. We have product that meet the European specifications in our Pennzoil product line – if you’d like to call in use option 3 then 2 for Pennzoil.
Regards,

Keith Perry

Shell Technical Information

(800) 237-8645 Option 3, 1

Email: -- email address removed --

 

[Newsa]

Here is a post from a shell tech on a BWW forum.

Now Rotella is selling as a diesel-specific oil. But that was not always the case.

This was posted in 2014.



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Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
Thread: Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
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m5hoot's Avatar
m5hoot said:
12-04-2014 01:28 PM
Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
I read many excellent reviews of Shell Rotella T6 wide-viscosity, full-synthetic heavy duty motor oil which fares well against all comers including Valvoline, Mobil one, etc. Iy is cheap at $21 bucks a gallon and when ordering 3 gallons, shipping to your home is free and those shopping at Wal-Mart know how hard it is to get anything in stock besides 10W-30. If you want 5W-40 0r 10W-50 on the shelf, forget it. By ordering 3 gallons at a time, you can get any viscosity you want and free shipping to your door. I have used Rotella T6 full synthetic in my 540 with great results. Admitted, I don't pay enough attention to specs on jugs. It is on Wal-Marts shelf right between Valvoline full synthetic and Mobile One. Jug say heavy duty Engine oil. I have older jugs that also say just HD engine oil. Now, ad on Wal-Mart shows just like my old jugs, the case that arrived at my door shows jugs saying HD engine oil, but upon opening case, the jugs NOW say HD DIESEL engine oil. I called Shell for their take and their official stance and I have email with man's name at Shell saying in no uncertain terms that Rotella T6 is for off road vehicles only such as diesel tractors. They claim Heavy Duty is synonymous with DIESEL and that since the year 200 when new federal phosphate regulations came into play, they officially do NOT recommend this oil for any automobile bearing a catalytic convertor. I know Wal-Mart is not aware of this and gives expensive shelf space in the automotive oil section. Lesson is to read specs, but Shell is purposely allowing consumers to belief their oil is automotive safe. Shell guy said you must switch to Pennzoil products to get a shell full synthetic for cars.

I know many swear by the pil spec. and would not use full syn. even in a 528, but Rotella is guilty of being misleading at best. Maybe BMW owners should be more savvy and spec oriented, but what about Joe Chevy owner who has no idea of the oil spec for his Cavalier and buys this. Do they really expect the average user to be able to recite their oil spec? My Bad completely, but I also think Shell is making absolutely bo attempt to indicate this is for diesel engines, farm tractors, etc,. Not for on-road vehicles. I have the official response which skirts the issue, but essentially says what I am telling you. Anyone else use Rotella T6 full synthetic in their non M5 cars?
Old, contrary, and out-of-touch,
but still learning sumpin' every day
NOTORIOUSLY long-winded :-(

Mike WW's Avatar
Mike WW said:
12-04-2014 01:45 PM
Oil threads can get more passionate than political ones, but I'll throw my .02 out there. If you're not using oil, and my E39 at ~250 does not use any that I can tell, it's a non issue, it's not even getting to the cat. This is also more applicable to newer cats, which E39s probably qualify as, although historically they have been much more robust than many other brands, hence they're high value as scrap. Now take your hypothetical Chevy Cavalier burning thru 4 quarts every change and a light duty cat, yeah, it's probably a big issue.
98 328is
02 525ita
80 528i
81 528ia
and decades of owning and driving BMWs

Arkum's Avatar
Arkum said:
12-04-2014 02:32 PM
I also used the Shell rotella T6 in my sport bike and never had any issues and I was thinking about using it in my 540. So you and shell are saying that using it will cause damage to the cats? But wouldn't that be the case for any oil going into the cats?

rf900rkw's Avatar
rf900rkw said:
12-04-2014 02:39 PM
It has been mentioned in more than one oil thread here that the Shell is a diesel only oil, containing too much phosphor and zinc to be used in a cat equipped gasoline engine. the info has always been waved off by the awesome lubrication engineers that hang around here.


/.randy

auaq's Avatar
auaq said:
12-04-2014 03:28 PM




m5hoot's Avatar
m5hoot said:
12-04-2014 04:15 PM
-- email address removed --
2:01 PM (23 hours ago
to me

Hello Mr. Liedtke,

I certainly appreciate your support of Rotella and would not argue with your successful use. Rotella T6 packaging has change a bit to emphasize diesel as the primary market. The product specifications have not since the 2007 upgraded to the latest API diesel specification, CJ-4. Rotella does have gasoline engine applications, but not modern vehicles which have restrictions on Phosphorus to help protect their catalytic convertors. Please be guided by your owner’s manual when selecting the correct oil. We have product that meet the European specifications in our Pennzoil product line – if you’d like to call in use option 3 then 2 for Pennzoil.
Regards,

Keith Perry

Shell Technical Information

(800) 237-8645 Option 3, 1

Email: -- email address removed --

"Rotella T6 packaging has change a bit to emphasize diesel as the primary market."

 

[Newsa]

Here is a post from a shell tech on a BWW forum.

Now Rotella is selling as a diesel-specific oil. But that was not always the case.

This was posted in 2014.



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Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
Thread: Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Tags:
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m5hoot's Avatar
m5hoot said:
12-04-2014 01:28 PM
Damn...new oil thread. Rotella T6 full synthetic NOT for use in automobiles per Shell
I read many excellent reviews of Shell Rotella T6 wide-viscosity, full-synthetic heavy duty motor oil which fares well against all comers including Valvoline, Mobil one, etc. Iy is cheap at $21 bucks a gallon and when ordering 3 gallons, shipping to your home is free and those shopping at Wal-Mart know how hard it is to get anything in stock besides 10W-30. If you want 5W-40 0r 10W-50 on the shelf, forget it. By ordering 3 gallons at a time, you can get any viscosity you want and free shipping to your door. I have used Rotella T6 full synthetic in my 540 with great results. Admitted, I don't pay enough attention to specs on jugs. It is on Wal-Marts shelf right between Valvoline full synthetic and Mobile One. Jug say heavy duty Engine oil. I have older jugs that also say just HD engine oil. Now, ad on Wal-Mart shows just like my old jugs, the case that arrived at my door shows jugs saying HD engine oil, but upon opening case, the jugs NOW say HD DIESEL engine oil. I called Shell for their take and their official stance and I have email with man's name at Shell saying in no uncertain terms that Rotella T6 is for off road vehicles only such as diesel tractors. They claim Heavy Duty is synonymous with DIESEL and that since the year 200 when new federal phosphate regulations came into play, they officially do NOT recommend this oil for any automobile bearing a catalytic convertor. I know Wal-Mart is not aware of this and gives expensive shelf space in the automotive oil section. Lesson is to read specs, but Shell is purposely allowing consumers to belief their oil is automotive safe. Shell guy said you must switch to Pennzoil products to get a shell full synthetic for cars.

I know many swear by the pil spec. and would not use full syn. even in a 528, but Rotella is guilty of being misleading at best. Maybe BMW owners should be more savvy and spec oriented, but what about Joe Chevy owner who has no idea of the oil spec for his Cavalier and buys this. Do they really expect the average user to be able to recite their oil spec? My Bad completely, but I also think Shell is making absolutely bo attempt to indicate this is for diesel engines, farm tractors, etc,. Not for on-road vehicles. I have the official response which skirts the issue, but essentially says what I am telling you. Anyone else use Rotella T6 full synthetic in their non M5 cars?
Old, contrary, and out-of-touch,
but still learning sumpin' every day
NOTORIOUSLY long-winded :-(

Mike WW's Avatar
Mike WW said:
12-04-2014 01:45 PM
Oil threads can get more passionate than political ones, but I'll throw my .02 out there. If you're not using oil, and my E39 at ~250 does not use any that I can tell, it's a non issue, it's not even getting to the cat. This is also more applicable to newer cats, which E39s probably qualify as, although historically they have been much more robust than many other brands, hence they're high value as scrap. Now take your hypothetical Chevy Cavalier burning thru 4 quarts every change and a light duty cat, yeah, it's probably a big issue.
98 328is
02 525ita
80 528i
81 528ia
and decades of owning and driving BMWs

Arkum's Avatar
Arkum said:
12-04-2014 02:32 PM
I also used the Shell rotella T6 in my sport bike and never had any issues and I was thinking about using it in my 540. So you and shell are saying that using it will cause damage to the cats? But wouldn't that be the case for any oil going into the cats?

rf900rkw's Avatar
rf900rkw said:
12-04-2014 02:39 PM
It has been mentioned in more than one oil thread here that the Shell is a diesel only oil, containing too much phosphor and zinc to be used in a cat equipped gasoline engine. the info has always been waved off by the awesome lubrication engineers that hang around here.


/.randy

auaq's Avatar
auaq said:
12-04-2014 03:28 PM




m5hoot's Avatar
m5hoot said:
12-04-2014 04:15 PM
-- email address removed --
2:01 PM (23 hours ago
to me

Hello Mr. Liedtke,

I certainly appreciate your support of Rotella and would not argue with your successful use. Rotella T6 packaging has change a bit to emphasize diesel as the primary market. The product specifications have not since the 2007 upgraded to the latest API diesel specification, CJ-4. Rotella does have gasoline engine applications, but not modern vehicles which have restrictions on Phosphorus to help protect their catalytic convertors. Please be guided by your owner’s manual when selecting the correct oil. We have product that meet the European specifications in our Pennzoil product line – if you’d like to call in use option 3 then 2 for Pennzoil.
Regards,

Keith Perry

Shell Technical Information

(800) 237-8645 Option 3, 1

Email: -- email address removed --

]"Rotella T6 packaging has change a bit to emphasize diesel as the primary market."