Fuel additives

[skorski]

Cummins is recommending the use of fuel additives what do members recommend thanks

 

[Killgore]

The majority are pretty much the same thing if you look at the MSDS'. Okay, the percentages may vary from one to the other, but that being said, any of the more popular ones available off the shelf should be fine.
- Ed

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Cummins officially endorses Power Service Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement.

 

[FrankG]

My question is; What do fleet managers do? If they use an additive, witch one? and the benefits of long term use using statistical data.. My personal opinion is it belongs on the shelf with the rest of the liquid fix my sick motor in a can remedies.

 

[skorski]

Thank you I picked up diesel kleen today

 

[Newsa]

I've tried a few. The jury is still out about whether or not they provide any benefit. Some who work on these trucks say using them too regularly can actually create injector problems. Makes sense that if you got fuel with water or microbes in it, the biocide and water surfactant in some of them could help reduce problems? But there is no data to prove many claims. I use them occasionally and I change the brand pretty regularly when I do use them.

 

[kthaxton]

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

 

[TDickerson]

Well, if Cummins now recommends Power Service over other brands, there must be some interest in it. Could it be a financial partnership, who knows. I doubt that Cummins would recommend additives if it was not good for their engines. I used to use it in my 97 all the time for turbo lubricity since they were taking almost all the sulfur out of the diesel fuel at that time. Now we are told that it doesn't matter and appears that parts are designed for low sulfur fuel. Now Cummins recommends additives. Are they seeing something in the diesel fuel that is concerning them. Is our diesel fuel not up to the standards that it is supposed to be and Cummins is trying to tell us something. I recently, for the first time, purchased a bottle of Power Service and used it after 52K miles. Can it help with injector cleaning, maybe. I think it would be nice of Cummins to let us know why all of a sudden that they recommend the use of the Power Service additive. Kind of curious about that myslelf.

 

[Newsa]

It's a very general reason about why they recommend it. But this is what I found. They don't say specifically why, but I suspect it is because it has a biocide in it.

http://m.truckinginfo.com/news/268844/cummins-officially-endorses-two-fuel-additives

 

[jhenderson]

Cummins endorses Power Service for the same reason they endorse Valvoline Premium Blue. Financial agreements. We all know it will do no harm, as it has a long track record and a winterizing agent is often required if fuel is purchased in a warmer climate and the vehicle moves to cold weather. The wise corporation strikes a deal.

 

[Killgore]

The biggest issue with fuel in the U.S. is the absence of lubricity, which is lost during the desulfurization process of ULSD. Because it travels within bulk pipelines and it's intended use is unknown, (aviation fuel, #2 diesel, etc.), no additives are introduced by the refiners. Only after it reaches the terminals and is being delivered to the dealers, etc. are additive packages introduced. BIG NASTY has on numerous occasions related how well that works. The fuel itself is dirty and barely meets ASTM specs in comparison to what is available in Europe according to OZYMANDIAS, one of our contributors in Switzerland.

Prior to 2007, the engines weren't designed to run on 15PPM Sulphur Diesel (ULSD), and it was common knowledge that something probably needed to be added to boast the lubricity on the ULSD to be used in these older engines. Since 2005, ASTM Standards (ASTM D-275) were established recommending (not mandating) 520 microns as the maximum allowable scar test standard before engine damage and/or premature failure resulted. Since this standard is not always mandated it becomes difficult to prove. Now comes the Engine Manufacturers Association requiring a maximum standard of 460 microns. So how is this obtained? Yep, with additives and /or a smidgen of bio-fuel if you suspect the fuel distributor occasionally drops the ball. Consequently, some of us who are OCD continue to put a squirt of snake oil or some 2-cycle in the tank, while oil companies maintain they meet ASTM standards and engine manufacturers want something better.
- Ed

 

[Newsa]

The biggest issue with fuel in the U.S. is the absence of lubricity, which is lost during the desulfurization process of ULSD. Because it travels within bulk pipelines and it's intended use is unknown, (aviation fuel, #2 diesel, etc.), no additives are introduced by the refiners. Only after it reaches the terminals and is being delivered to the dealers, etc. are additive packages introduced. BIG NASTY has on numerous occasions related how well that works. The fuel itself is dirty and barely meets ASTM specs in comparison to what is available in Europe according to OZYMANDIAS, one of our contributors in Switzerland.

Prior to 2007, the engines weren't designed to run on 15PPM Sulphur Diesel (ULSD), and it was common knowledge that something probably needed to be added to boast the lubricity on the ULSD to be used in these older engines. Since 2005, ASTM Standards (ASTM D-275) were established recommending (not mandating) 520 microns as the maximum allowable scar test standard before engine damage and/or premature failure resulted. Since this standard is not always mandated it becomes difficult to prove. Now comes the Engine Manufacturers Association requiring a maximum standard of 460 microns. So how is this obtained? Yep, with additives and /or a smidgen of bio-fuel if you suspect the fuel distributor occasionally drops the ball. Consequently, some of us who are OCD continue to put a squirt of snake oil or some 2-cycle in the tank, while oil companies maintain they meet ASTM standards and engine manufacturers want something better.
- Ed

I am probably a bit OCD about the issue because I really do not want to accidentally grab the wrong hose at the gas station and accidentally pump the wrong fuel into my tank. Have actually had nightmares that I made that mistake and likewise fears that I will accidentally get DEF in the fuel.

I actually think my OCD has served me well.

But I don't put additives in every tank because I believe you can overdo it.
I treat every other tank or every third tank. Some instructions say to double the dose in winter. I would never do that even if I lived in a colder climate.

I was sold on optilube because it is so slick and is recommended by almost everyone who tests additives. I spilled some on the pavement accidentally and almost slipped and fell down because it was so slick. However, it is the properties that it has after being put in the fuel that matter.... Not it's individual properties.

Then I saved an 8 ounce bottle instead of discarding so I could use it to measure optilube out of a larger bottle. I noticed the dried optilube in the bottle was very gummy.

That was when I decided not to use the same additive, but to switch between, power service, stanadyne, & optilube. And at that time, I decided an occasional dose of added lubricity/added biocide is adequate.

Some will have the luck of driving 300,000 to 500,000 miles and never get a bad/contaminated/mistreated tank of fuel.
But none of us really know what is actually coming out of the pump.

Purely anecdotal and my own thoughts.

Edit; I've decided to add penray POW-R 365 in to my fuel treatment rotation of every other or every third tank.

 

[Flash1034]

Has anybody tried Howes Diesel Fuel Addditive? It’s inexpensive compared to the others.

Thanks

 

[jhenderson]

I've had good luck when I've had occasion to use it. It's made right here in R.I. Next to the Quonset Navy Base. All the local contractors and truckers swear by it. They advertise " if you don't go, we pay the tow" for their anti gel formula. I don't know anybody who's had to use the guarantee.

 

[Tuesdak]

It's a very general reason about why they recommend it. But this is what I found. They don't say specifically why, but I suspect it is because it has a biocide in it.

http://m.truckinginfo.com/news/268844/cummins-officially-endorses-two-fuel-additives

Neither of these products has a biocide in it. That product you are thinking of would be BioKleen. Biocides are specifically sold as and only as a biocide and generally not part of standard off the shelf diesel additives used for lube or anything else like anti gel.

 

[jacknife]

I used Howes for many years driving cross country in an 18 wheeler. Been in many sub zero conditions and doubled the dosage if the temp required . I passed many trucks beside the road with jelled up fuel filters and never experienced the nitemare of sitting beside the road waiting for a wrecker to take me to a shop to thaw out. If it does more then that I do not know but I would never run in zub zero temps without it. Bio fuel has an even higher cloud temp ! That fuel filter hanging way back under the bed gets zero engine heat . I would not like to be laying under the bed on a cold night trying to change it .

 

[Newsa]

Neither of these products has a biocide in it. That product you are thinking of would be BioKleen. Biocides are specifically sold as and only as a biocide and generally not part of standard off the shelf diesel additives used for lube or anything else like anti gel.

Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression it had a low concentration of biocide. But I am mistaken.

 

[Killgore]

I had an algae problem several years ago and can testify to Bio-Kleen's efficacy. I believe I bought it off Amazon where I thought it was a little expensive, but it only takes about an ounce or two to treat a tank. Good product!
- Ed

 

[TCDiesel]

This is what happens when you use poor fuels ,Home brew or lack of supply. No intermediates will change this. http://www.fhrfuels.com/products/performance.aspx The additional links for the Performance fuels are Down.

Cummins endorsement is more likely attached to $. Call your local refinery on Fuels produce, Flint Hills checks the fuels quality hourly. MN has mandatory Biodiesel, the only time any intermediates are necessary are extreme cold -20 or lower

 

[Killgore]

I'm encouraged to see somebody is attempting to do it right. Of course in your area, there's probably less room for error. Down here it's probably more of a crap-shoot. After I replaced my last set of injectors I installed additional filtration and took this issue with lubricity pretty seriously. I recognize all of this is an individual decision, but I'm going to do any and all things possible to avoid going through that experience again. I'm just like Newsa, OCD.

I doubt anyone in Cummins' higher echelon plays golf with anybody from Power Service. Their decision to recommend PS was probably based on it's availability on the shelf. But, take me with a grain of salt, I'm certainly not an expert on the subject. I am curious why Cummins finally made a decision to recommend snake oil after so many years. Was it based on their participation in the Engine Manufacturers Association and the acceptable maximum wear index of 460 verses the apparent disparaging and detrimental ASTM standard of 520, or was it just recognition of the necessity for an anti-gel additive considering the filter placement at the rear of the frame where gelling is assured without proper additive treatment?

- Ed