Replaced ORIGINAL VP44 with rebuilt unit less MPG & Power!!

[Michaelsloft]

Anyone experience this or heard about a truck with similar issue. Please see my signature for truck details. I purchased this truck NEW April 1999 and have had very few minor repairs (maintenance items really) over the 18+ years of ownership. Never used a tuner. Been completely satisfied with the power and performance until the original VP44 failed with 250,500 miles in late October while driving at a steady speed of 45 MPH is 5th gear.....codes of 0251, 0252, 1688 and 1689 were found. Ordered a quality rebuilt VP44 with a two year warranty and installed it without any problems along with a new FASS DDRP-02.
From the first moment it started the truck was much quieter at idle. Very smooth sounding, but definitely different at idle. Less exhaust smell overall too. The engine just sounds like it has less timing than the original VP44 pump??? I am getting 2-3 MPG less overall and the overall performance of the engine is not as powerful. Engine seems to be running cleaner with less smoke out of the pump under hard acceleration and quieter at all RPM's.
The truck is an early 6-speed and the engine number indicated 235/460 so the replacement injection pump is a standard output 027 Bosch unit. Overall the truck is very smooth, in fact it is smoother running than ever before, but the engine does not have the throttle response or power that it had with the original pump. The engine used to have what I would describe as an edge to the sound. It was intensely loud at idle from new and would quiet down after about 45 minutes of driving time.

I've driven the rebuilt VP44 about 1200 miles since replacement.

Any experience with this issue or advise would be greatly appreciated as the truck just is not the same as it was before and have not even towed anything yet! It ran the same for 18+ years and more than 250,000!

Michael

 

[JR]

Did you install the key way that was sent with the new VP? Positive it didn't push back as you pressed the pulley in? Im sure you know but that is the key it was timed for? Havr Verified they sent you the correct VP?


Any codes with new pump?

Did you order your truck? The early SO 2nd gen/5600 is a pretty rare one.

 

[Michaelsloft]

Did you install the key way that was sent with the new VP? Positive it didn't push back as you pressed the pulley in? Im sure you know but that is the key it was timed for? Havr Verified they sent you the correct VP?


Any codes with new pump?

Did you order your truck? The early SO 2nd gen/5600 is a pretty rare one.

I installed the key way that was sent with the new VP. And positive it did not push back as pressed into position on the pulley.

Verified with seller that they sent the correct VP - it had a pump that ended 011 and I was sent a 027 VP pump. The seller is very helpful with part numbers, but does not seem to know much about it beyond that.

No codes with the new VP pump. No codes at all. It starts as it always has with the turn of key. Hot or cold. Runs and drives great, just does not have the performance that the original pump had.

The seller said he talked to a tech and tech said to check the key way and that the crossover tubes might be loose or out of place from removing fuel lines and I could be getting atomized fuel or aeration/aereated fuel??? Truck is running cleaner then when new, smoother, quieter and takes longer to warm up....was difficult to keep heat in the engine even with most of the radiator covered with cardboard except for the center 8-10 inches or so on a single digit drive one night. The engine is quieter and smoother than ever before - seems to be to be timed and fueled very differently than original VP. Overall the engine has less power especially as RPM's increase.

Yes, I ordered the truck new in Jan 1999 and it was delivered April 30th, 1999. Worth the wait and have enjoyed every mile. First new vehicle and it was a big occasion for me. I researched the Dodge Cummins for a while at the time and decided to get one, but it had to be a 6-speed. Ordered it with the 241DHD transfer case and the 3500 brake calipers. It was termed 2500HD at the time, I think, since Dodge did not have a SRW one ton truck available.

Thanks for the thoughts and if you have any more ideas what might be causing this difference in performance let me know anything.

Going to remove the breather this afternoon and confirm key is is in pulley correctly.

 

[dblake]

I had a similar thing happen to me. Dealer put in the wrong vp44 under warranty. They put in the standard pump when they should have put in a high output. They swapped it out for the correct one and the truck drove fine again.

 

[Michaelsloft]

I had a similar thing happen to me. Dealer put in the wrong vp44 under warranty. They put in the standard pump when they should have put in a high output. They swapped it out for the correct one and the truck drove fine again.

hmmm....this might be the issue with my truck. Did you experience similar performance differences and I have tried to describe? Mine is almost sewing machine like....very quiet, smooth, lower engine temp, low on power loss in MPG. etc?

 

[dblake]

I had the exact same issues. You need to check to see if your truck came with the HO or SO pump then check your pump part # and verify that it’s correct. Sorry, I don’t remember where I found the info since it was more than a decade ago. Good luck!

 

[Michaelsloft]

Thanks for your input. I'm going to get it figured out and get the correct pump! The seller is not being very helpful....

 

[mweiman]

X3 on being the wrong pump. I know someone who put an so pump on an ho engine and it runs about like you describe. Has programmer on the truck on max level and it runs about like a stock truck now.

 

[Michaelsloft]

Thank you for the input. Anybody that has any information or details of how to document that this is the incorrect/wrong VP44 so I can get the correct pump please let me know. Anything is useful and helpful.

 

[mweiman]

Post your engine serial number and someone may be able to look it up.

 

[Michaelsloft]

Post your engine serial number and someone may be able to look it up.

Good idea, but there is no confusion with the engine serial number and spec at this point. The serial no. has always indicated it is a 235HP/460 torque engine with a SO VP44 pump whether it is from a Cummins facility, Dodge dealer or parts seller it is clearly a 235/460. The original VP44 I removed ended in 011 which crosses over to a 027 SO VP44.
IIRC my truck is from the first run of 6 SPD NV5600 and they had the 235hp 5 speed engine.

Is it possible the ECM and or PCM had a unique program or tune?? It was very powerful and I chose to not have a Dodge dealer do a reflash/program 245/505?? when I received a post card from Dodge in 2001 to do this for a nominal fee of $60. Always had plenty of power and great MPG so I kept it as from the factory.

So do my electronics support the HO VP pump? I don't know at this point and am trying to find out more from Dodge/Ram Trucks.

Keep the ideas coming. Anything is welcome.....

Thanks again.

 

[JR]

It sounds like you already know what you have, but just for clarification the 8th digit of your Vin denotes wether you have an SO or HO. 6 = SO, 7 = HO.
The only other thing I can think of that you can check is verifying they sent you the correct key. The key should be stamped .045 or something similar and this info should be on the name plate of the pump. In all honesty, the chances this happened is slim, generally when a pump is far enough out of time it will throw a code and run rough. But if you tear it back down it would be worth a look.

 

[Michaelsloft]

It sounds like you already know what you have, but just for clarification the 8th digit of your Vin denotes wether you have an SO or HO. 6 = SO, 7 = HO.
The only other thing I can think of that you can check is verifying they sent you the correct key. The key should be stamped .045 or something similar and this info should be on the name plate of the pump. In all honesty, the chances this happened is slim, generally when a pump is far enough out of time it will throw a code and run rough. But if you tear it back down it would be worth a look.

To be certain about the VIN number and following this good advise I checked VIN on truck, on insurance card and written in Owners Manual (by myself years ago and they all match indicating with the 8th digit being a 6. It must be a SO.
When I received the rebuilt pump the key was already installed in the key way and I checked the arrow direction to confirm it was in correctly and IIRC it was stamped .045.
The engine runs very smoothly and settles into a smooth idle very shortly after start-up. The original always to 3-5 minutes to settle into a smooth idle since day one. I have no engine light on and no codes I am aware of?
The engine sounded quieter when I first started it after install. It smokes less than the original....less power and MPG is down by 2-3 MPG!

Could there be OBD codes/trouble codes without a check engine light displaying?

The engine starts with the turn of the key as it always has. Cold, warm or Hot. I can hear the new FASS DDRP-02 running and it is only 2 months old and about 1200 miles.

Thanks for the input JR. Looks like I'm going to have to tear it back down and look. The key looks centered in the key way and positioned where it should be, looking closely with a mirror and with the breather removed!

I'm determined to resolve this issue and it may require tearing it down and removing the pump to see what it looks like. If it looks good I'll send the pump back to have it tested. The pump is from well known Bosch certified rebuild company with an excellent reputation and two year warranty.

If any one has any ideas or thoughts no matter how basic/obvious (no offense will be taken) please send my way.

Thanks again and will post more as I learn more about the issue.

 

[petersonj]

Could there be OBD codes/trouble codes without a check engine light displaying?

From what I understand from others who have posted on this site; yes, codes can be stored that may require a quality scanner to retrieve them. It would probably be a good idea to have codes checked at a quality shop before you remove the injection pump. If there are any stored codes, they may give a direction to pursue a fix.

Also, it might be worth a call to Blue Chip Diesel and explain the details of your situation; they are very, very knowledgeable on the VP44 pumps. You have been very thorough in doing your part to resolve this issue and I think that you have a very unique situation and Blue Chip Diesel may be able to help.

Your original injection pump seems to behave like the 505 torque / 245 hp engine even though we know that this power level wasn't available in 1999 (or at least we think we know). Your description of how your engine sounds and runs with the old injection pump is exactly like the way my 2002 HO engine sounds and runs.

I am really sorry that you are having to go through all of this.


- John

 

[Michaelsloft]

From what I understand from others who have posted on this site; yes, codes can be stored that may require a quality scanner to retrieve them. It would probably be a good idea to have codes checked at a quality shop before you remove the injection pump. If there are any stored codes, they may give a direction to pursue a fix.

Also, it might be worth a call to Blue Chip Diesel and explain the details of your situation; they are very, very knowledgeable on the VP44 pumps. You have been very thorough in doing your part to resolve this issue and I think that you have a very unique situation and Blue Chip Diesel may be able to help.

Your original injection pump seems to behave like the 505 torque / 245 hp engine even though we know that this power level wasn't available in 1999 (or at least we think we know). Your description of how your engine sounds and runs with the old injection pump is exactly like the way my 2002 HO engine sounds and runs.

I am really sorry that you are having to go through all of this.


- John

John, thank you for taking the time to write and your understanding of my issue/situation with the replacement VP44 is appreciated. The original VP44 performed very differently than this 027 rebuild. I was so very dissapointed when the original pump failed. It was very hot and humid this summer here where I am currently located and I think it may have contributed to its demise. I wish I had ordered one from Blue Chip...

May I send you a private message?

Michael

 

[petersonj]

JMay I send you a private message?

Michael

Absolutely!

- John

 

[DrDeltic]

John, thank you for taking the time to write and your understanding of my issue/situation with the replacement VP44 is appreciated. The original VP44 performed very differently than this 027 rebuild. I was so very dissapointed when the original pump failed. It was very hot and humid this summer here where I am currently located and I think it may have contributed to its demise. I wish I had ordered one from Blue Chip...

May I send you a private message?

Michael

Sorry to hear your all-too-familiar story.
Had a recent similar VP44 story on a '99 2500 4X4 48RE
chasing calibration was confusing, but I may have learned:
Bosch stipulates calibration of FPCM on the injection pump on rebuilding, done in the Bosch test bench while calibrating according to Bosch parameters, and these are varied according to Bosch's current specs for the vehicle.
Some time back, authorized rebuilders could install new FPCMs on reman pumps each pump rebuild, at considerable expense. Now rebuilders are advised the units can be recalibrated 3X. More $$$ for them and good on them, but! I had one VP44 that was on the truck rebuilt, but recalibrated to current specs mandated by Bosch at rebuild time (without knowing, thinking it was an upgrade). On installation, noticeably less power, same pump.
Customer complained and I warranteed unit, supplying fresh VP44 from Bosch, reman in CZ, new FPCM, recalibrated as recommended before shipping to me. Same poor performance. No codes. Rebuilder expressed some frustration with Bosch, but it is a tightly controlled environment. If you are an "authorized rebuilder" you take what you get.
Woodruff key NOT the problem, key displaced on installation NOT the problem.
Fuel supply pressure at 12psi. Idle like you experienced, "smoother" than expected (245K miles). Less pulling power.
Never was able to correct the lack of original power on this one.
Curious like you!

 

[DavidC]

All of this is not good news. It takes considerable time for this project and to see these results after installation is very disappointing. I sure hope it gets figured out.

Dave

 

[Joe Mc]

Guess I got lucky? Got my VP from Thoroughbred. I agree = considerable time and money for this project and to net results Michael has experienced sucks! Staying tuned and hoping my VP lasts forever...

 

[Michaelsloft]

Sorry to hear your all-too-familiar story.
Had a recent similar VP44 story on a '99 2500 4X4 48RE
chasing calibration was confusing, but I may have learned:
Bosch stipulates calibration of FPCM on the injection pump on rebuilding, done in the Bosch test bench while calibrating according to Bosch parameters, and these are varied according to Bosch's current specs for the vehicle.
Some time back, authorized rebuilders could install new FPCMs on reman pumps each pump rebuild, at considerable expense. Now rebuilders are advised the units can be recalibrated 3X. More $$$ for them and good on them, but! I had one VP44 that was on the truck rebuilt, but recalibrated to current specs mandated by Bosch at rebuild time (without knowing, thinking it was an upgrade). On installation, noticeably less power, same pump.
Customer complained and I warranteed unit, supplying fresh VP44 from Bosch, reman in CZ, new FPCM, recalibrated as recommended before shipping to me. Same poor performance. No codes. Rebuilder expressed some frustration with Bosch, but it is a tightly controlled environment. If you are an "authorized rebuilder" you take what you get.
Woodruff key NOT the problem, key displaced on installation NOT the problem.
Fuel supply pressure at 12psi. Idle like you experienced, "smoother" than expected (245K miles). Less pulling power.
Never was able to correct the lack of original power on this one.
Curious like you!

DrDeltic, I too was wondering about calibration and FPCM quality. I was tempted to have my original pump rebuilt, but told by local rebuilder it was a gamble at what it might cost?? "the rebuilt VP44 pump price is determined by the average of what it costs to rebuild"?? Mu original pump had more than 250K and even suffered a weak lift pump at around 150,000 for a few hundred miles! I thought it was well wron by this time. OK, so went with rebuilt unit from a Bosch certified well known company with high volume.
I have received a couple of ideas from TDR members and will be pursuing them in the coming days. And I am determined at this point to find a solution.
Will post any details I learn and in the meantime please post anything you may learn in the meantime.
Thanks for your input.