Aisin Transmission Poor Quality OMG did I make a mistake if correct

[brillmtb]

This taken from a site that offers rebuilds. It makes it sound like my 03 48RE was much better. No wonder I have so much TQ management inhibiting smooth brisk take off. Crap, I paid more to get this transmission because it was supposed to be better. I was going to add a turner at a low setting to change the throttle response, not really looking for huge HP increase but my smarty jr did wonders for my 03 on tow mode. Now look at this crap. I paid for and inferior transmission. Really! I am wondering how the Chevys are now......perhaps loyalty to Ram is stupid

Product Description
Revmax brings you our newest Signature Series Transmission. The Revmax AS69RC Signature Series transmission. These units are built to the most stringent tolerances by one expert technician from beginning to end, and each unit is signed by the technician when finished.

The AS69RC is a nightmare of a transmission. It was build with extremely low quality internal parts and its capacity to handle increased power in stock form is extremely low. The Revmax Signature Series AS69RC has been redesigned from the torque converter to the output shaft and most of the internals have simply been thrown away. The K2 and K3 clutch drums have been redesigned and now feature billet replacements each with nearly 50% more clutch surface area while retaining nearly factory thickness in both steel and frictions. The new drums not only hold additional clutches but they also fix the ring grooving issues that the AS69RC is notorious for due to the cheap metal the factory made the drums out of. The K2 clutch hub is also notorious for being extremely soft and thus prematurely wearing out due to the clutch teeth eating into the hub. Our hub is thicker, and made of superior materials and is no longer susceptible to these wear issues.

This unit is now capable of holding in excess of 800HP with the enhancements we have made.Even with the amazing progress we have made with these units there is still something we cannot fix as it is out of our hands, transmission tuning. We like to explain it like this: Go out and buy the best computer hardware money can buy and install Windows 95 on it and see how it will run? The transmission clutch application of this unit starts at a measly 25psi this requires extensive defueling on the shifts to insure that the clutch does not become overloaded on the hand-off. Unfortunately, there is not transmission tuning available and we have not heard of any forthcoming or even being developed. Therefore, it is imperative that whomever is tuning your truck must keep the full factory defuel / torque management in place.

 

[Big Johann]

do you have 800HP on tap or are you going to fall for marketing?

 

[brillmtb]

I am pasting another opinion from days past from another site that seems to contradict what I put above.....yes Im confused. Its better or its not, it can handle a tuner at a reasonable lower towing setting with reasonable driving or not. It seems that without someone who has taken one apart that you can trust we really don't know.



Without going into the nuts and bolts here is a little bit I can help to educate you. The Aisin transmission is an absolute 'medium duty' transmission that is built for workhorse applications with non-stop use. They are larger, have bigger clutches, shaft, have more heavy-duty parts within. They are designed to work even more HP and torque numbers than the new 3500 will produce.

The best things you will see with these Aisin’s are the capability of putting more power to the wheels than the 68FRE...kind of like the Allison. As a matter of fact, the Aisin transmission actually has some of the same arecture as the Allison trans. The 68RFE is a really good transmission (now days) but due to the old 48 and 58 RFE issues the 68 has taken headshots because of their premature failure that just won't go away. It’s funny how it works, the next time someone says something about how cruddy the “Dodge transmission" is, ask them “what is the name or number of the horrible Dodge transmission you speak of?” They will not be able to tell you – but it’s what they're programmed to say.

The 68 is really not a "medium duty" transmission, we all know it can go the distance, but if you look at the actual make up of the housing, clutches, shaft, etc....it does not have the 'work me all day every day' arecture that you need when really putting the HEAVY power to it, day in and day out. Don't get me wrong, it can do it, but if you put more power to it than what we are supposed to, it will start to show signs of rut, roh. A lot of why things blow up is how you operate your machine. I'm one of the guys that can own a truck, overload it everyday, but I never blow out a transmission or other parts. Other good operators know what I'm talking about. You have to be reasonable on how you operate things and try to make them last.

I believe this Aisin transmission came to Ram for two reasons, 1. because of marketing and I think this is a great idea and a great marketing tool (again, because of the historic rhederic where people feel Dodge can't make a good transmission). And 2. because the numbers on these trucks are going to head upward and will go higher and higher and the 68 does not have the housing room to take on the larger parts to make it durable to numbers above 400 HP and 850-900 Ft. lbs of torque.

So a new trans would be needed regardless. And why not build it 'in-house?'...because now days it is more beneficial to do what you do best in-house and buy what someone else can do better than what you can do. GM is a good example, they don't build good diesel motors or a transmission that can hold up to a big diesel motor. But they have been smart to buy the right set-up to make their truck work very well. Don’t get me wrong, can Dodge and GM build a trans to hold up? Yes, can they do it well and make a really good profit? Probably not because they have opted out of doing this.

As for fuel mileage, we'll have to wait and see but this transmission has done very well for other applications it serves (big box truck diesels in the industrial world).

I hope that helps and I'll add a few more things as they come to me.

Moose.

 

[SnoKing]

This taken from a site that offers rebuilds. It makes it sound like my 03 48RE was much better. No wonder I have so much TQ management inhibiting smooth brisk take off. Crap, I paid more to get this transmission because it was supposed to be better. I was going to add a turner at a low setting to change the throttle response, not really looking for huge HP increase but my smarty jr did wonders for my 03 on tow mode. Now look at this crap. I paid for and inferior transmission. Really! I am wondering how the Chevys are now......perhaps loyalty to Ram is stupid

Product Description
Revmax brings you our newest Signature Series Transmission. The Revmax AS69RC Signature Series transmission. These units are built to the most stringent tolerances by one expert technician from beginning to end, and each unit is signed by the technician when finished.

The AS69RC is a nightmare of a transmission. It was build with extremely low quality internal parts and its capacity to handle increased power in stock form is extremely low. The Revmax Signature Series AS69RC has been redesigned from the torque converter to the output shaft and most of the internals have simply been thrown away. The K2 and K3 clutch drums have been redesigned and now feature billet replacements each with nearly 50% more clutch surface area while retaining nearly factory thickness in both steel and frictions. The new drums not only hold additional clutches but they also fix the ring grooving issues that the AS69RC is notorious for due to the cheap metal the factory made the drums out of. The K2 clutch hub is also notorious for being extremely soft and thus prematurely wearing out due to the clutch teeth eating into the hub. Our hub is thicker, and made of superior materials and is no longer susceptible to these wear issues.

This unit is now capable of holding in excess of 800HP with the enhancements we have made.Even with the amazing progress we have made with these units there is still something we cannot fix as it is out of our hands, transmission tuning. We like to explain it like this: Go out and buy the best computer hardware money can buy and install Windows 95 on it and see how it will run? The transmission clutch application of this unit starts at a measly 25psi this requires extensive defueling on the shifts to insure that the clutch does not become overloaded on the hand-off. Unfortunately, there is not transmission tuning available and we have not heard of any forthcoming or even being developed. Therefore, it is imperative that whomever is tuning your truck must keep the full factory defuel / torque management in place.

What these guys marketing says is the same as what re-builders have been saying from the beginning of time. If you are not happy with your new truck, it is because you did not do enough research before buying it. These trucks are not being built as hotrods, they are built to tow heavy loads. Learn to roll into the throttle and be happy or go buy a GM or Ford V8. V8's will always to faster than I-6's. Weight of the fly wheel, crank, 8 rods and 8 pistons or the Ford or Duramax as most likely half the weight of the flywheel, crank, 6 rods and 6 pistons or the Cummins 6.7.

FWIW, the towing performance is fairly even between the three.

 

[spoon059]

What... a company that makes money rebuilding transmissions and making "performance" transmissions has negative things to say about a stock transmission? I'm shocked! Just curious what this same exact company says about your Allison transmission. If I had a dollar to bet, I'm sure they would say that the Allison has issues that they would be willing to fix... for a nominal fee, of course.

To answer your question about "loyalty" to Ram, yes that's stupid. I am not loyal to any car company or logo. Each time I buy a new vehicle I compare and research all the options and buy the best for me given my needs and pricepoint.

In my life I've owned a Buick, Ford F150, Isuzu Rodeo, Ford Explorer, Ford Taurus, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Toyota Tundra and now a Ram 2500... in that order. No "loyalty" to a particular hunk of metal... just research and purchase of the right vehicle for me at the time.

 

[brillmtb]

OK, SnoKing I am on my second glass of wine but what you said frankly doesn't make sense to me. I need a third. So I am not racing the rolling the throttle is completely wrong and even my dealer called an engineer and he confirmed that what I was experiencing is intentional. Now to the second point, I would think pulling my 13K 5th wheel through 10K passes in CO last week is WAY harder on my transmission than a slight tuner in tow mode and no trailer behind me yet some would say adding 50hp on a tuner will destroy the Aisin. I am worried if this is true as climbing those 10k passes then going through death valley at 117 and pulling those long grades have to be much harder on my transmission.

I am not loyal to any one truck company and no one should or they will just take advantage of that. We need to expect quality. Paying 2k more or whatever it was to get a transmission that now need TQ management doesn't make sense. I should perhaps bought the "lesser" option and turned around and built it with the 2K I saved as a starting point, added a tuner set to towing and run better mileage, lower EGT and better drivability like I had with my 03 48RE with smarty jr for 200K

 

[SnoKing]

OK, SnoKing I am on my second glass of wine but what you said frankly doesn't make sense to me. I need a third. So I am not racing the rolling the throttle is completely wrong and even my dealer called an engineer and he confirmed that what I was experiencing is intentional. Now to the second point, I would think pulling my 13K 5th wheel through 10K passes in CO last week is WAY harder on my transmission than a slight tuner in tow mode and no trailer behind me yet some would say adding 50hp on a tuner will destroy the Aisin. I am worried if this is true as climbing those 10k passes then going through death valley at 117 and pulling those long grades have to be much harder on my transmission.

I am not loyal to any one truck company and no one should or they will just take advantage of that. We need to expect quality. Paying 2k more or whatever it was to get a transmission that now need TQ management doesn't make sense. I should perhaps bought the "lesser" option and turned around and built it with the 2K I saved as a starting point, added a tuner set to towing and run better mileage, lower EGT and better drivability like I had with my 03 48RE with smarty jr for 200K

Beefing up a 68RFE is not cheap and they also have TQ management, and less HP and TQ to start with.

For the record I tow at a combine weight of 24,500 with 3.42 and Aisin in the West. 45K mile and almost 3 years works great, until you lift the throttle and get right back on it. That creates a throttle lag. Learn to roll into the throttle and most are happy. If that does not work for you, then to buy a Ford or GM. Guy here did that a couple weeks ago. He went with Ford. Hopefully he is now happy. You might also be that way.

BTW some like the BD throttle response box.

 

[brillmtb]

Tried the box, have it in now, no difference. What I don't like is that when the throttle finally responses seconds later it comes on harder than I wanted in the beginning.

 

[brillmtb]

Im in the west as well in Reno so a lot of mountain driving at altitude to go camping.

 

[SnoKing]

Tried the box, have it in now, no difference. What I don't like is that when the throttle finally responses seconds later it comes on harder than I wanted in the beginning.

So you do not understand the concept of rolling into the throttle?

 

[gsbrockman]

Yeppppppp....they’re a reallllllly inferior transmission!!!!

 

[Cummins12V98]

The AISIN transmission per the retired West coast Warranty Rep "They Don't Break".

I tow 33-35K West coast and the trans ALWAYS runs cool even on several mile long 14% grades.

Go ahead slap on a tuner and let us know how that turns out. Don't be fooled the Dealer WILL see you had something on it if you are trying to claim warranty coverage on a head gasket failure.

Sounds like you may want to check out the Cummins forum.

 

[TCDiesel]

brllmtb , Revy Just spouting off about the 69, I like him, But he's wrong about this, Its NO different then Bill Kondolay 2004 claim that all 48re were going to fail because of the bad thrush washer..... If you want to rid yourself of the lag, Mod the rail, it has internal fuel restrictors that must be removed, 1000s of 6.7 owners of done this .

My 6.7 has NO lag or dead pedal , its around 440 RWHP form Feb of 2014 to date on a stock 69.

I called and talked to the RD of Aisin MI Back in 2013, He clearly set the bar on the 69 425-440- 1200 FT TQ for life normal use towing,

The 69 is clearly more robust then the 68rfe by visual inspection and the way the 69 transmits power is superior to the 68rfe.

The majority of the lag Is the design of the 6.7 Rail. Yes We Mod Rails... So I'm No different than Revy

When You Mod the Rail Owners will Tell You even the tone of the Motor changes at idle form the Mod.

 

[jhenderson]

I’ll assume it’s a 13+. That means head gasket failures are no longer a big problem. That was early tuning on pre def trucks. The trans was built to withstand factory settings. Torque management is part of that design. The Aisin is what’s known as a slip-shift trans. Applying torque before the clutches are fully applied is what causes failure. When the trans lets go and warranty is denied because of altered programming he’ll be back to whine. .
I’ve learned to drive my truck as required to eliminate the dead pedal. I find it much more productive to adapt than complain.

 

[Newsa]

All.3

View attachment 107763 Yeppppppp....they’re a reallllllly inferior transmission!!!!

It was described as a "nightmare" of a transmission. That sounds like a very long nightmare.

My opinion is that all 3 have their up/down sides. None are built for hot rodding. All were built for towing. And all have been tested for towing.

 

[TFucili]

If you think the Allison is trouble free I've got some ocean-front property in Quartzite for sale. Yes, I owned one behind an 8.1 gasser.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

I wish we could get the the engineers from Aisin or even Ram to explain to us on TDR what exactly is going on

 

[Big Johann]

marketing 101... create a need and market the need.

personally, I don't think there is any need but as PT Barnum said, a sucker is born every minute.

 

[TCDiesel]

I wish we could get the the engineers from Aisin or even Ram to explain to us on TDR what exactly is going on

If You call them (Aisin) they will....

 

[sag2]

I still have yet to see one fail. So I will continue to say, they don't break.