G-plus radiator

[NIsaacs]

Not in those words, but implied.

At any rate, yesterday I replaced my Cummins t-stat with close to 400,000 miles behind it for another Cummins t-stat. You know, the one designed by those " highly educated, bright and hard working engineers" for the 12 valve 5.9 Cummins engine. My test drive today in 95 degree heat, AC on full blast, 65 mph, resulted with engine temps about 20-30 degrees cooler than I had a few weeks ago in similar conditions. Conventional thinking is the old t-stat wasn't opening fully which restricted the flow of hot coolant out of the engine and higher temps on the gauge. I'm going with that.

What does Cummins recommend for your truck, and what did you use? Napa only shows a 180 for '97, no options. Both my 1st gen's. take 180's so that's what I use.

I had a tough haul today about 25k and on a 3 mile 6% grade I topped out at 224, cool day, (80*) in 5th. The fan seems to kick in at about 208, but that is hard to nail down because each hill is different in how I pull it....sometimes it is gradual and sometimes quick. It seems to kick out at about 195.

I think one of my issues is the digital gauge on my monitor, it gives exact readings but my dash is a guess. With my Edge EZ and oem radiator I never had a temp issue...but I was using the oem gauge...what ya don't know don't hurt. With the new radiator, Edge Juice and monitor (they all installed the same time) I see 220+ and I get worried, maybe it was doing that all along and I didn't know it.

I would really like to try that plastic fan but am unsure if my clutch will turn it. It is also 2" smaller so that means a slight mismatch with the shroud. My oem radiator only had the two core same as the new one.

Nick

 

[The patriot]

It may help in that it will buy you some time.
I understand that the radiator will only transfer what it's made to do, but if you're climbing a hill with a max or max + load on a hot day you may reach the peak @ say 210 degrees. (I used to be pretty good with those math formulas.)
If you start out 5 degrees colder, it will afford you the time to top the hill, and start the downgrade, thus back to cooling.
Mission accomplished.
It isn't made to be a fix, it's for those in extreme heat, with extreme loads. Like you.
I'm reasonably certain that if your system starts out 5 degrees cooler, your fan will engage less often, so you may even see a little MPG bump.
I KNOW it's not a radiator replacement fix........

 

[GAmes]

It was not implied Gary.
Since you can't just let it go, the first thought that comes to mind.
A very wise man once said, "never underestimate the determination of the ignorant".......

Michael

I guess it must have something to do with your writing style.

"Maybe try a Napa 180 degree thermostat to start off at the bottom on a long grade cooler. I think it would help to have a fan that engages sooner before the system is saturated ......you might be able to stay around 195 when loaded and pulling a long grade."

"The Horton EC450 has always kept it at 192 or lower and it usually runs around 180 and fluctuates between 180 and 185 with the Napa 180 degree thermostat."

I totally agree with the very wise man.

 

[GAmes]

What does Cummins recommend for your truck, and what did you use? Napa only shows a 180 for '97, no options. Both my 1st gen's. take 180's so that's what I use.

I had a tough haul today about 25k and on a 3 mile 6% grade I topped out at 224, cool day, (80*) in 5th. The fan seems to kick in at about 208, but that is hard to nail down because each hill is different in how I pull it....sometimes it is gradual and sometimes quick. It seems to kick out at about 195.

I think one of my issues is the digital gauge on my monitor, it gives exact readings but my dash is a guess. With my Edge EZ and oem radiator I never had a temp issue...but I was using the oem gauge...what ya don't know don't hurt. With the new radiator, Edge Juice and monitor (they all installed the same time) I see 220+ and I get worried, maybe it was doing that all along and I didn't know it.

I would really like to try that plastic fan but am unsure if my clutch will turn it. It is also 2" smaller so that means a slight mismatch with the shroud. My oem radiator only had the two core same as the new one.

Nick

The t-stat is the same one as always, Cummins part # 3928499, the only one I have ever used. A 24 valve specs a different part #, easily found in Cummins Quickserve. The temp it opens at is not stamped on it, so I don't know what it is nor do I care. If the gauge is close to accurate it is a 180. Though not towing today my temp never got to the 190 mark, even when doing it's normal cycling when I first left the driveway. It went past the 190 mark with the old one. The fan clutch engaged while sitting at stop lights even though the gauge needle was about 1/8 to the left of the 190 (center) mark. Prior to today I thought my gauge was in error and even have a new temp sender en route from Genos. Another small part that will occupy my spares box when it gets here. I don't have a solid schedule, but hopefully will be hooking up the 5er and boat in the near future. Between the new t-stat, a new radiator cap and the bigger radiator I expect a cool running engine. Speaking of the new radiator cap, I'll test drive it tomorrow to see if the unloaded temps change any. Have you checked yours?

 

[GAmes]

It may help in that it will buy you some time.
I understand that the radiator will only transfer what it's made to do, but if you're climbing a hill with a max or max + load on a hot day you may reach the peak @ say 210 degrees.

It took 20 to 30 minutes to reach the top of the two mountains I pulled the heavy camper over. A 5 -10 degree lower temp at the bottom of the hill would have been overcome in 15 seconds.

 

[Michaelsloft]

I guess it must have something to do with your writing style.

"Maybe try a Napa 180 degree thermostat to start off at the bottom on a long grade cooler. I think it would help to have a fan that engages sooner before the system is saturated ......you might be able to stay around 195 when loaded and pulling a long grade."

"The Horton EC450 has always kept it at 192 or lower and it usually runs around 180 and fluctuates between 180 and 185 with the Napa 180 degree thermostat."

I totally agree with the very wise man.

Gary, you are confirming my point and we are in complete agreement. What are you missing here?? I said it might and it is stated and implied that a properly operating fan with enough cooling capacity is required.
The more I look over the discussion in this thread we are in agreement!!??

Michael

 

[GAmes]

What we disagree on is that somehow a 180 t-stat will keep an engine cooler on a long hard pull than a 190 t-stat. The only reason I wouldn't pull those same mountains without any t-stat is the complexity of removing and installing a t-stat (at the bottom and top of the grade) plus the fact the 5er I was hooked to is now in the custody of it's owner. I don't own a trailer that heavy and there is nothing in TX that demanding.

 

[Michaelsloft]

What does Cummins recommend for your truck, and what did you use? Napa only shows a 180 for '97, no options. Both my 1st gen's. take 180's so that's what I use.

I had a tough haul today about 25k and on a 3 mile 6% grade I topped out at 224, cool day, (80*) in 5th. The fan seems to kick in at about 208, but that is hard to nail down because each hill is different in how I pull it....sometimes it is gradual and sometimes quick. It seems to kick out at about 195.

I think one of my issues is the digital gauge on my monitor, it gives exact readings but my dash is a guess. With my Edge EZ and oem radiator I never had a temp issue...but I was using the oem gauge...what ya don't know don't hurt. With the new radiator, Edge Juice and monitor (they all installed the same time) I see 220+ and I get worried, maybe it was doing that all along and I didn't know it.

I would really like to try that plastic fan but am unsure if my clutch will turn it. It is also 2" smaller so that means a slight mismatch with the shroud. My oem radiator only had the two core same as the new one.

Nick

Nick, very good point about the fan diameter and the fan shroud mismatch. And another good question is the capacity of the stock fan clutch too. I think a radiator with more cooling capacity might be worth trying and I know you just installed a new one recently. And the 4 row Aluminum radiator Gary is using is proving to be working very well. Beautifully made in the USA part.
Have you ever spoken to anyone on the tech line at Genos?
Someone there may have experience with the higher capacity 20" fans. $317 just seems like a lot of money for a plastic fan.
Just thinking out loud here Nick. There has to be a way to cool it down a bit and Im interested in seeing how its done.

Michael

 

[Michaelsloft]

What we disagree on is that somehow a 180 t-stat will keep an engine cooler on a long hard pull than a 190 t-stat. The only reason I wouldn't pull those same mountains without any t-stat is the complexity of removing and installing a t-stat (at the bottom and top of the grade) plus the fact the 5er I was hooked to is now in the custody of it's owner. I don't own a trailer that heavy and there is nothing in TX that demanding.

On a long hard pull when the 180 and /or a 190 is fully open? It really may be our writing styles?? LOL
Hit the Post Reply accidently.....

 

[Michaelsloft]

What we disagree on is that somehow a 180 t-stat will keep an engine cooler on a long hard pull than a 190 t-stat. The only reason I wouldn't pull those same mountains without any t-stat is the complexity of removing and installing a t-stat (at the bottom and top of the grade) plus the fact the 5er I was hooked to is now in the custody of it's owner. I don't own a trailer that heavy and there is nothing in TX that demanding.

This is exactly what I meant about the coolong fan and the cooling capacity of the Horton EC450.

 

[Michaelsloft]

It may help in that it will buy you some time.
I understand that the radiator will only transfer what it's made to do, but if you're climbing a hill with a max or max + load on a hot day you may reach the peak @ say 210 degrees. (I used to be pretty good with those math formulas.)
If you start out 5 degrees colder, it will afford you the time to top the hill, and start the downgrade, thus back to cooling.
Mission accomplished.
It isn't made to be a fix, it's for those in extreme heat, with extreme loads. Like you.
I'm reasonably certain that if your system starts out 5 degrees cooler, your fan will engage less often, so you may even see a little MPG bump.
I KNOW it's not a radiator replacement fix........

All good points!
And before starting a long grade it is best to begin with as low a temperature as possible and thus the big advantage of having a fan that can be turned on maually and running it all the way up the grade if required. If the fan has the cooling capacity it will help to keep the engine in the safe temp running zone that your engine is designed to run.

 

[GAmes]

This is exactly what I meant about the coolong fan and the cooling capacity of the Horton EC450.

They are nice. No longer available and not worth persuing.

http://catalog.hortonww.com/catalog...r=Horton+EC450.&searchType=part&units=english

 

[Michaelsloft]

I'm bringing back this thread because I found an all metal, made in the USA radiator. Costs less than the Mishimoto ($675) and is a 4 row with steel tanks. I road tested it pulling an 11,000 pound 5er from OR to TX last week. Even on the steepest hills I didn't have to turn my AC off to keep the engine from overheating. I am super satisfied, especially after having a Spectra.
https://radiatorsupplyhouse.com/products/icebox-performance/

Gary, how long did it take for radiator supply house to build your radiator and get the part?

Michael

 

[GAmes]

4 weeks, and I picked it up the day after it was finished. Their estimate when I ordered it was 3-4 weeks, so I timed my visit to see the grandkids accordingly.

 

[Michaelsloft]

4 weeks, and I picked it up the day after it was finished. Their estimate when I ordered it was 3-4 weeks, so I timed my visit to see the grandkids accordingly.

The radiators look well built on their website and sounds like it was well worth 4 week build time.

 

[NIsaacs]

Speaking of the new radiator cap, I'll test drive it tomorrow to see if the unloaded temps change any. Have you checked yours?

I changed it with the new radiator. How can a radiator cap change the operating temps? As long as the water stays in the radiator at all temps, it should be good.

Nick

 

[NIsaacs]

It may help in that it will buy you some time.
I understand that the radiator will only transfer what it's made to do, but if you're climbing a hill with a max or max + load on a hot day you may reach the peak @ say 210 degrees. (I used to be pretty good with those math formulas.)
If you start out 5 degrees colder, it will afford you the time to top the hill, and start the downgrade, thus back to cooling.
Mission accomplished.
It isn't made to be a fix, it's for those in extreme heat, with extreme loads. Like you.
I'm reasonably certain that if your system starts out 5 degrees cooler, your fan will engage less often, so you may even see a little MPG bump.
I KNOW it's not a radiator replacement fix........

We think alike, Lol

 

[GAmes]

According to the article I posted;

Normally, water (coolant) boils at 212 degrees F, but if the pressure is increased, the boiling temperature is also increased. Since the boiling point goes up when the pressure goes up, the coolant can be safely heated to a temperature above 212 degrees F without boiling. What makes this important is that the higher the temperature of the coolant is, the greater the temperature gap between it and the air temperature is. This is the principle that causes the cooling system to work; the hotter the coolant is, the faster the heat in it moves to the radiator and the air passing by. So, a cooling system under pressure takes heat away from the engine faster, which makes it more efficient.

I interpret that to mean that the higher the pressure of the radiator cap, the hotter the coolant will get before being sent to the over flow bottle. If the coolant is hotter, there is more heat transfer and the engine gets cooler liquid from the radiator.

 

[NIsaacs]

According to the article I posted;

Normally, water (coolant) boils at 212 degrees F, but if the pressure is increased, the boiling temperature is also increased. Since the boiling point goes up when the pressure goes up, the coolant can be safely heated to a temperature above 212 degrees F without boiling. What makes this important is that the higher the temperature of the coolant is, the greater the temperature gap between it and the air temperature is. This is the principle that causes the cooling system to work; the hotter the coolant is, the faster the heat in it moves to the radiator and the air passing by. So, a cooling system under pressure takes heat away from the engine faster, which makes it more efficient.

I interpret that to mean that the higher the pressure of the radiator cap, the hotter the coolant will get before being sent to the over flow bottle. If the coolant is hotter, there is more heat transfer and the engine gets cooler liquid from the radiator.

Yes, I agree, however, as long as the cap keeps the water in the radiator at any temperature, it is good.

 

[NIsaacs]

I have been doing a lot of research on fan clutches, Hayden has some good info. They show they make 3 levels of clutches. Standard duty, heavy duty (12 valve) severe duty/medium duty truck (24 valve). The heavy duty is 6.4" overall clutch diameter with the severe duty at 7.4", my Mopar is 7". Napa has one in stock (Hayden) for my truck. The severe duty cost twice as much as the heavy duty, so if price means good, maybe it will help

Nick