Pedal Delay Gone-Great Increased Performance!

[Wiredawg]

Yep, I don't completely understand either...this is definitely the most complex Ram/Cummins I've owned. My understanding this injection system isn't just jacking up rail pressures, but these Cummins engines are using pulse width technology and the module manipulates these pulses. Way beyond my understanding, but the way I see it, time will tell. On a side note, I drove my wife's 2019 Ram 1500 4x4 today with the 5.7L Hemi and 8 speed HP transmission, and what a rocket sled. So different than my 5500. I digress. anyway, y'all may see other posts on this forum where members have installed the Stealth module, same product. Ron

 

[AH64ID]

Watching the video it’s highly likely it does increase pulse width.

This module will absolutely have an effect on the emissions, especially since the ECM isn’t tracking actual fuel. More power means more fuel. If they do anything to the timing emissions will be all whacked.

No pyro is very risky, as there is going to be more fuel. But it’s also hard to know what’s good or bad with emissions in place.

I’ve never been a fan of modules that modify the OEM signal, vs writing over the ECM program. On a vehicle with a DPF it’s even more risky.

Stock or delete...

That being said someone with one of the custom tune softwares could write you a tune that’s copying the OEM HO Aisin tune, which would be my preference for more power with the DPF/SCR installed.

 

[Wiredawg]

John,

As you've seen in my posts in this thread, I've used both modules and tuners, both stacked on two trucks, and have had great success with both. There are old posts in the 2nd and 3rd Gen forums here on the TDR where similar discussions took place regarding high fuel pressures, high EGTs, damage/excessive wear to components. Never hurt any engine, engine component, drive line, transmission, clutch, or any other components. My 2002, I had the originally clutch running Edge Tow Pro with Smarty on top. After I quit towing, about 150,000 miles, I set the Smarty on level 9, and still had the original factory clutch when I sold it with 198,000 miles. Could be my conservative driving style contributes to the longevity of the vehicles and the successful use of the mods..

I see the same discussion occurring here again. And, I'm not concerned about this module either: The engine sensors and components are very sensitive on these trucks and I believe will set a code if there is an issue and a lot of parameters are measured in milliseconds. BTW, I like Smarty, had it on the 2002, 2003 and 2009. Couldn't get a response from the MADS website, so they lost my business. This module has been out a while and I couldn't find a failure related to the product. The one element I don't have expectations on is improved mileage, just don't usually drop mileage. And, the old type a me like the idea of an EGT gauge. I may do it, but a real pain to do on this truck. I broke off the tap in the exhaust manifold on my 009 4500. Fortunately, by BIL had a neat back out tool that easily removed it.

As always, I'll be an honest broker on this and report any problems and conversely, any positive results. Thanks for your input, opinions, and suggestions. Happy to have the discussion with you all.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Jrsweet16]

John,

As you've seen in my posts in this thread, I've used both modules and tuners, both stacked on two trucks, and have had great success with both. There are old posts in the 2nd and 3rd Gen forums here on the TDR where similar discussions took place regarding high fuel pressures, high EGTs, damage/excessive wear to components. Never hurt any engine, engine component, drive line, transmission, clutch, or any other components. My 2002, I had the originally clutch running Edge Tow Pro with Smarty on top. After I quit towing, about 150,000 miles, I set the Smarty on level 9, and still had the original factory clutch when I sold it with 198,000 miles. Could be my conservative driving style contributes to the longevity of the vehicles and the successful use of the mods..

I see the same discussion occurring here again. And, I'm not concerned about this module either: The engine sensors and components are very sensitive on these trucks and I believe will set a code if there is an issue and a lot of parameters are measured in milliseconds. BTW, I like Smarty, had it on the 2002, 2003 and 2009. Couldn't get a response from the MADS website, so they lost my business. This module has been out a while and I couldn't find a failure related to the product. The one element I don't have expectations on is improved mileage, just don't usually drop mileage. And, the old type a me like the idea of an EGT gauge. I may do it, but a real pain to do on this truck. I broke off the tap in the exhaust manifold on my 009 4500. Fortunately, by BIL had a neat back out tool that easily removed it.

As always, I'll be an honest broker on this and report any problems and conversely, any positive results. Thanks for your input, opinions, and suggestions. Happy to have the discussion with you all.

Cheers, Ron

Wiredawg i agree i purchased the same module from a dealer out in utah for my '16 2500 4x4, my truck give me better city driving mpg hand calculated and by instrument cluster, i cruise at 75-80 mph and i get at worst my area of west tx is low 18 at best so far 19.8- 20, but iv only owned the module for bout 4.5 months and its not a daily driver so ill try n use it as much as i can. The only thing that it does do on my truck is the dead pedal is still there kindaaaa. But im very happy, no codes, no chk engine lights, better mpg good investment. Cheers fellas, i also will report back with good and bad things with this module.

 

[AH64ID]

John,

As you've seen in my posts in this thread, I've used both modules and tuners, both stacked on two trucks, and have had great success with both.

The 6.7 is nothing like 2nd and early 3rd gen motors. The module issues didn’t really start until 04.5. Having looked at the guts of the tuning from 2nd-4th gen it’s amazing how different they are.

The transmission is a whole issue in it self. The Trans has controls based on power output that help preserve its life. When you start adding more fuel with a module at a lower TPS that the ECM cannot see you start to shorten the life of the trans because it thinks power is much lower than it actually is.

Hopefully it works out well for you, but it’s not a 15K gamble I would take.

 

[Wiredawg]

John,

I guess I'm learning about the trans controller for the Aisin. Are you saying the primary input the Aisin controller receives to manage torque is TPS position? Are there any other inputs from other sensors? And, are the controllers for pickups and C&Cs the same or different. And, on my 2009 Ram 4500 that I had the Smarty on: Does the Smarty reprogram the Aisin? I ran level 5 on it for 7 years towing and Aisin showed no abnormal wear at 65K miles.

I appreciate all the info you have to share, Ron

 

[AH64ID]

There isn't any Aisin control, it's just stock.

There are lots of things used to control the trans, TPS is one, and Torque is another.

 

[Wiredawg]

I drove the 5500 lots today, in traffic and short highway (12 miles) and was impressed. Nice to have a clear sunny day. I had the gauge screen up on the truck display to track oil, coolant, transmission temps and boost. Everything stayed normal. I don't floor my trucks, but I did try out using progressive pedal. This truck feels like my 2009 4500 with Smarty on level 5 (90HP). I guess after driving it for 8 years with 90 extra HP, so I missed that with this truck. I still have the module set on 90HP and the throttle felt uniform and strong. I can feel the power on the bottom and middle. It moved smartly in traffic and I felt more confident pulling into traffic. On a side note, a top-end Ford F450 Pickup (very sharp) honked and gave me a thumbs up on my truck. Compliments mean more when the come from owners of other brand trucks. Remembering this truck reaches max HP at 2400 RPM, its pretty nice having more power in this tighter powerband. Over the next few days, I'm going out on the interstate and see how it performs accelerating from 60 to 75.

So, I'll keep throwing tidbits out there as I experience more of this truck with the module.

Cheers, Ron

 

[brillmtb]

OK so the question is if this is a better option then say a smarty. It seems that if this works it is not detectable maybe? My concern is if it was this simple to get the results why would they make more complex tuners to just boost a little. Is the way they achieve their results better or worse on the truck. i.e. increased rail pressure vs fueling timing etc

 

[Wiredawg]

This power module could be a better option if you don't plan to run over level 5 on the Smarty and don't need to program custom tuning. From where I'm sitting, it's difficult to make a technical comparison on how each works because I'm not technically qualified to do that. Butt (ha ha), from the drivers seat, both feel the same on the 90 hp setting.

So in the realm of opinion, I suspect the changes the module introduces to the truck produce inputs into sensors and components and processed by the PCM and adjusts output control signals as programmed using their respective algorithm tables. I suspect nothing is function outside their operational design.

From my 2017 5500 Service manual on the PCM, here are the PCM inputs and outputs:

The main function of the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is to electrically control the fuel system. The PCM also controls the functions of transmission. ​

The PCM can adapt its programming to meet changing operating conditions.

The PCM receives input signals from various switches and sensors. Based on these inputs, the PCM regulates various engine and vehicle operations through different system components. These components are referred to as PCM Outputs. The sensors and switches that provide inputs to the PCM are considered PCM Inputs.

PCM Inputs:

• Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS) Signals No. 1 and No. 2
• AC system pressure
• Auto shutdown (ASD) sense
• Battery voltage
• Brake switch
• Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP)
• Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP)
• Data link connection for a scan tool
• EGR Air Flow Control
• EGR Valve
• Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor
• Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor
• EATX module (if equipped)
• Fuel level
• Fuel pressure sensor
• Fan speed (engine cooling fan)
• Generator (battery voltage) output
• Governor pressure (Auto. trans.)
• Ground circuits
• Inlet air temperature sensor/pressure sensor
• Intake air temperature sensor/MAP sensor
• CAN C BUS (+) circuits
• CAN C BUS (-) circuits
• Key switch (ignition)
• Oil Pressure switch
• Overdrive switch (automatic transmission only)
• Park/neutral switch (auto. trans. only)
• Power ground
• SCI datalink bus (+) circuits
• SCI datalink bus (-) circuits
• Sensor return
• Signal ground
• Speed control multiplexed single wire input
• Transfer case switch (4WD range position)
• Transmission governor psi (automatic transmission only)
• Transmission OSS (automatic transmission only)
• Transmission oil pressure (automatic transmission only)
• Transmission oil temperature (automatic transmission only)
• Transmission throttle valve position (automatic transmission only)
• Vehicle speed signal
• Water-In-Fuel (WIF) sensor

After inputs are received by the PCM, certain sensors, switches and components are controlled or regulated by the PCM. These are considered PCM Outputs.

PCM Outputs:

• A/C clutch relay
• Auto shutdown (ASD) relay
• Data link connection for diagnostic scan tool
• EGR air flow control
• EGR valve
• Fan clutch PWM
• Five volt sensor supply (primary)
• Five volt sensor supply (secondary)
• Fuel control actuator
• Fuel injector driver circuits
• Fuel transfer (lift) pump
• Generator field driver (-)
• Generator field driver (+)
• Governor pressure (VFS solenoid)
• Intake manifold air heater relays No. 1 and No. 2 control circuits
• CAN C BUS (+/-) circuits for: speedometer, voltmeter, fuel gauge, oil pressure gauge/lamp, engine temp. gauge and speed control warn. lamp
• Malfunction indicator lamp (Check engine lamp). Driven through J1850 circuits.
• Oil pressure switch/warning lamp (databus)
• Overdrive/3–4 shift solenoid (automatic transmission only)
• SC source
• SCI datalink bus (+) circuits
• SCI datalink bus (-) circuits
• Speed control vacuum solenoid
• Speed control vent solenoid
• Tachometer (if equipped). Driven through J1850 circuits.
• TCC solenoid (automatic transmission only)
• Transmission battery relay (automatic transmission only)
• Transmission throttle valve actuator (automatic transmission only)
• Transmission governor solenoid (automatic transmission only)
• Wait-to-start warning lamp (databus)
• Turbo wastegate solenoid
• Water-In-Fuel (WIF) warning lamp (databus)

BL: I believe the truck PCM adapts to changes the power module introduces via inputs listed above and processes them with the appropriate outputs. Sure looks to me there is a lot monitored and controlled here and pretty frequently (a few hundred to a few thousand times a second).

Beyond this, we need engineers involved in this discussion.

Cheers, Ron​

 

[gsbrockman]

I drove the 5500 lots today, in traffic and short highway (12 miles) and was impressed. Nice to have a clear sunny day. I had the gauge screen up on the truck display to track oil, coolant, transmission temps and boost. Everything stayed normal. I don't floor my trucks, but I did try out using progressive pedal. This truck feels like my 2009 4500 with Smarty on level 5 (90HP). I guess after driving it for 8 years with 90 extra HP, so I missed that with this truck. I still have the module set on 90HP and the throttle felt uniform and strong. I can feel the power on the bottom and middle. It moved smartly in traffic and I felt more confident pulling into traffic. On a side note, a top-end Ford F450 Pickup (very sharp) honked and gave me a thumbs up on my truck. Compliments mean more when the come from owners of other brand trucks. Remembering this truck reaches max HP at 2400 RPM, its pretty nice having more power in this tighter powerband. Over the next few days, I'm going out on the interstate and see how it performs accelerating from 60 to 75.

So, I'll keep throwing tidbits out there as I experience more of this truck with the module.

Cheers, Ron

What city & state are you in? It would be interesting to compare my lowly 4.10 4500 with your 4.88 5500. I’m almost certain there’s a decent amount of ZING difference just based on the gearing alone, let alone with your 4.88’s hopped up.

 

[Wiredawg]

I know there is a little more zing with your 4.10s. And I bet it would have even more zing if you had the hp/tq numbers of the pickups. Remember I had a 02 3500 with 4.10s, 09 4500 with 4.44s and now I have the 5500 with 4.88s. Something I have that you don't is 38.5K GCVWR.

Saint Hedwig TX. bring your truck, a heavy trailer and some beer. After the drag races we can bbq and drink beer.

 

[gsbrockman]

I know there is a little more zing with your 4.10s. And I bet it would have even more zing if you had the hp/tq numbers of the pickups. Remember I had a 02 3500 with 4.10s, 09 4500 with 4.44s and now I have the 5500 with 4.88s. Something I have that you don't is 38.5K GCVWR.

Saint Hedwig TX. bring your truck, a heavy trailer and some beer. After the drag races we can bbq and drink beer.

I think you misunderstood me.....your 4.88 truck has more ZING than my 4.10 truck.

Didn’t really want to race.....just try to discern what part of the improvements were 4.88 related or power enhancement related.

 

[Wiredawg]

I was joking too. I guess it's 4.88 related as that's the only component I can find that gives my 5500 higher ratings than other 4500 and 5500 configurations (rings and pinions). I only traded my '09 4500 in for the 2017 5500 because of higher GCVWR. And, the primary reason I ever programmed the Smarty on the 09 4500 was the stock truck was speed limited at 76 MPH and I was always getting stuck in the passing lane. The Smarty can reprogram the speed limiter; then, I got hooked on the power...I ran that truck 8 years with Smarty on level 5. transmission would get 210' so I added an aux thermostat controlled fan cooled transmission cooler. It was the perfect tow machine, except I was exceeding the GCVWR by 7,400 lbs or 28.46% overweight.

Reading more articles about overloaded (over rated GCVWR) lawsuits and losses, I made the difficult (6 month) decision to upgrade my GCVWR. Looked at Freightliner Sport Chassis with 40K Lb GCVWR, $150K, no 4wd, and 10 feet tall. I researched and found my current truck had been on the lot over a year, alredy had a tow body, and was rated at 38.5K Lb GCVWR. And the truck was a loaded Laramie. I swapped my 09 4500 with 70K miles on the clock for the 2017 Ram 5500 for $45.5 out the door.

So, stock, my 5500 pulls great and has decent performance, but I was spoiled driving the 09 with 90 HP/180 Lb ft Tq added. So as I mentioned above in my above posts, I tried it out and so for I like it.

So, there it is.

Cheers, Ron

 

[AH64ID]

GCVWR.

GVWR or GCWR?

No such thing as GCVWR.


Either way, neither of those numbers are legal numbers in most states. They are warranty numbers.

 

[Wiredawg]

Since we're talking about 38,500 lbs, its GCWR. Thanks!

 

[AH64ID]

Since we're talking about 38,500 lbs, its GCWR. Thanks!

Considering a 3500 with 4.10’a can have a GCWR if 39,100 it does to show how much those numbers don’t really matter(If you how to look at specs/ratings). Especially when you consider that you’re trying to get pickup power out of a C&C with a module that will likely have all kinds of fun with your emissions equipment.

Would have been GCWR and power ahead to just buy a 3500 and maybe throw some 19.5’s on it for stability.

Seems odd to me to trade a 4500 for a 5500 that can’t tow as much as a 3500, since numbers like GCWR matter to you.

 

[Wiredawg]

It's all about both GVWR and GCWR; GCWR is just one part of the total equation. The reason I prefer the 5500 C&C over pickup trucks:
1. Bigger brakes
2. Higher GVWR 19,500Lbs versus 14,000lbs, (5,400Lbs hitch weight on my rig plus 60 more gals of fuel and about 500 Lbs of tools, including 2ea 12 ton jack stands and two 20 ton bottle jacks.
3. Larger stock fuel tank 52 gal (plus my 60 gal aux tank) versus 31 gal = more range
4. Tow body versus pickup bed (more utility, more storage), more trailer to bed clearance, flat bed easier to load/unload from sides and rear.
5. Higher rated tires,
6. Heavier for more stability IMHO
7. Tighter turning radius (frame is narrower allowing more crank on the tires)
8. larger axles (beefier)

Don't get me wrong, a 3500 pickup truck is a nice truck, I just find my 5500 suits all my needs and wants.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Cummins12V98]

Considering a 3500 with 4.10’a can have a GCWR if 39,100 it does to show how much those numbers don’t really matter(If you how to look at specs/ratings). Especially when you consider that you’re trying to get pickup power out of a C&C with a module that will likely have all kinds of fun with your emissions equipment.

Would have been GCWR and power ahead to just buy a 3500 and maybe throw some 19.5’s on it for stability.

Seems odd to me to trade a 4500 for a 5500 that can’t tow as much as a 3500, since numbers like GCWR matter to you.

I believe my DRV is heavier than Wiredawg's weighing 23k. My normal combined is 33k, well within my combined rating. Same for when I double tow at 35k. My front axle is under it's 6k rating, my rear is at it's "SAE" 9,750# rating. My pin weight is 25% at about 5,750#.

The ONLY thing I am over on is my GVWR of 14k. The 14k number is simply there for licensing and insurance purposes to keep the 3500 DRW's out of Commercial territory. I am licensed to tow my weight.

For those that simply don't get what i am saying PLEASE tell me how I can tow at 9,750# RAW "SAE" rating and simply add ZERO weight to my front axle and not be over my 14k??? 9,750 + 5,200 unloaded = 14,950# HMMMMMM how it this possible.

Wiredawg spent his money how HE wanted to but the fact is with my proper tonnage for my load I have ZERO concerns over any law suit.

BTW my combo is rock solid in all weather and terrain conditions. I run 65 rear and 80 front pressures.

 

[AH64ID]

I believe my DRV is heavier than Wiredawg's weighing 23k. My normal combined is 33k, well within my combined rating. Same for when I double tow at 35k. My front axle is under it's 6k rating, my rear is at it's "SAE" 9,750# rating. My pin weight is 25% at about 5,750#.

The ONLY thing I am over on is my GVWR of 14k. The 14k number is simply there for licensing and insurance purposes to keep the 3500 DRW's out of Commercial territory. I am licensed to tow my weight.

For those that simply don't get what i am saying PLEASE tell me how I can tow at 9,750# RAW "SAE" rating and simply add ZERO weight to my front axle and not be over my 14k??? 9,750 + 5,200 unloaded = 14,950# HMMMMMM how it this possible.

Wiredawg spent his money how HE wanted to but the fact is with my proper tonnage for my load I have ZERO concerns over any law suit.

BTW my combo is rock solid in all weather and terrain conditions. I run 65 rear and 80 front pressures.

Exactly.

The 4500/5500's, IMHO, are great for heavy service beds where you need the higher GVW and the like but they are not better than a 3500 DRW for towing.

I looked up the turning radius on a CCLB DRW and a 4500/5500 CC 80" Cab to Axle and they were identical.