oil filter 1/2 empty at oil change

[nukegm]

comrades! i changed the oil in my 2500 today ( 2018 6.7 ) it was the 3rd oil change at the 6 month interval. when i pulled off the oil filter it was 1/2 empty. i did not have this happen on the last oil changes. any thoughts? normal? cheers! and thanks for input in advance.

 

[gsbrockman]

Did you perform the oil change stone cold, slightly warmed up, or at operating temperature? The oil will siphon some at operating temperature (maybe 1.5 inches or so) and even more overnight (ie cold).

 

[AH64ID]

Most of my oil changes end up with partially filled oil filters. As stated they siphon some oil out after shutdown.

It’s one of several reasons I’m not worried about prefilling oil filters when I change them.

 

[nukegm]

thanks comrades - the first 2 changes i did were pretty hot. this one was 3 hrs after shut off. i just found it strange that a filter in the position that it is in ( like a glass of water ) can have oil drained out of it against gravity, so to speak. thanks for calming my nerves. cheers! chris

 

[DonFitzwater]

I always drain first, pull filter last. Always have a partially drained filter. Makes for a clean oil change.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Mine is always low and no oil runs out the top because I let my oil drains set for hours or even overnight draining.

I have ALWAYS pre filled my filters.

 

[Newsa]

It’s one of several reasons I’m not worried about prefilling oil filters when I change them.

Yeah, if it's going to start every time (every day) with a half-filled oil filter, I don't see the point in prefilling the filter. I actually don't prefill either oil filter..... The full flow oil filter or the bypass oil filter.

 

[Wayne M.]

The best oil changes are a hot shutoff, go in for a cup of coffee, come out and pull the plug, grease the front end, and then remove the filter cleanly.
My belief is that the oil siphons back into the pan to a point that there’s an air break, Probably inside the filter.

 

[AH64ID]

I honestly don’t see the benefit to a hot oil change. I drain it cold, as it’s easier to work around the motor.

 

[dieselshadow]

It prevents settling of suspended material from falling out of suspension and becoming sludge in the bottom of your pan and everywhere else. It’s still good practice even with today’s oils.

 

[AH64ID]

It prevents settling of suspended material from falling out of suspension and becoming sludge in the bottom of your pan and everywhere else. It’s still good practice even with today’s oils.

If that’s a legit concern there are much bigger issues at hand, like all the sludge in the rest of your motor.... considering most shutdowns happen hot, if sludge formed elsewhere it wouldn’t matter when you drained the oil.

There is so much oil left in the head after shutdown that it doesn’t matter anyways.

Hot oil circulation and filtration is what keeps suspended material from accumulating into slide, not hot oil changes.

 

[dieselshadow]

Like I said, probably not as much as a factor as yesterday’s oils. But it’s still good practice.

If want a clean engine, it’s pretty much common practice to drain it hot.

No matter hot or cold, you’ll never get all the oil.

I take it from your avatar you’re a pilot? Just about every aircraft maintenance manuals will tell you to do the same, hot drains. It’s more effective on non-filtered items like reduction cases and gearboxes. It gets all the “floaties” out with the oil rather than leaving them in the case to linger.

 

[gsbrockman]

On my previous 2014 RAM 3500 (and all previous and current cars and trucks) the oil is drained at operating temperature. In fact....any fluid change, except coolant, is changed at operating temperature.

Below are a few pics of my 2014 3500 at 324k miles when the valves were run. The first four oil changes were 15W40.....everything after that was 5W40 synthetic, either Shell Rotella or Chevron Delo, mostly Chevron Delo.

I’m confident the engine stayed cleaner with my regimen, hot drains, even with 13,500 to 15,000 oil change intervals.
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[JohnM45]

Yeah, if it's going to start every time (every day) with a half-filled oil filter, I don't see the point in prefilling the filter. I actually don't prefill either oil filter..... The full flow oil filter or the bypass oil filter.

We have two oil filters to change? I was only aware of the spin-on filter near passenger side front wheel well. Taking about the 6.7 engine?

 

[gsbrockman]

We have two oil filters to change?

There’s only one standard oil filter on the 6.7L........unless one installs a bypass filtration setup.

 

[AH64ID]

If want a clean engine, it’s pretty much common practice to drain it hot.

You are going to have to explain how a hot drain makes for a clean engine.... filters clean the oil, which keeps the engine clean not hot drains. You filter 100% of the oil all the time, every time (aside from filter issues). You only drain the oil a handful of times in the average ownership of a vehicle.

I take it from your avatar you’re a pilot? Just about every aircraft maintenance manuals will tell you to do the same, hot drains. It’s more effective on non-filtered items like reduction cases and gearboxes. It gets all the “floaties” out with the oil rather than leaving them in the case to linger.

Yes and no. It depends on what the drain is being accomplished for. Some are hot and some aren't. Like you said, non-filtered as well makes a big difference on the need to circulate the oil.

On my previous 2014 RAM 3500 (and all previous and current cars and trucks) the oil is drained at operating temperature. In fact....any fluid change, except coolant, is changed at operating temperature.

Below are a few pics of my 2014 3500 at 324k miles when the valves were run. The first four oil changes were 15W40.....everything after that was 5W40 synthetic, either Shell Rotella or Chevron Delo, mostly Chevron Delo.

I’m confident the engine stayed cleaner with my regimen, hot drains, even with 13,500 to 15,000 oil change intervals.

I can't see draining the sump hot having any effect on what the valve train looked like, here's why. Almost every time you shut the motor down it's at operating temp, so the oil in the valve train does a hot drain nearly every time you shut down. This takes anything building in the motor and dumps it in the sump, where it gets filtered out the next time you drive it. If it's too big/heavy to get sucked up and filtered then it's stuck on the bottom of the pan and too big/heavy to drain out with a hot or cold drain. So why would the 1 time every 13.5-15K miles shutting it down and draining it make ANY difference? It won't.

If you have sludge/suspended particles/etc in your oil pan that are cleaned out by a hot drain then you have MUCH bigger issues, such as too long of OCI, poor filter performance (cheap and/or clogged), or something failing internal to the motor. Even over the life of the motor, let's say 500K miles for fun, and 15K OCI's you're only draining the oil 34 times.... not nearly often enough to have a noticeable or measurable effect on sludge/suspended particles within the oil and motor.

If stuff in the bottom of the oil really did present an issue to the motor Cummins would have an oil pan that fully drained, instead of keeping nearly a quart at each change.

Filters, quality oil, and appropriate OCI's are what keep sludge/suspended particles out of the motor... not hot oil drains.


That being said, I wouldn't drain COLD oil in the winter without getting it to operating temp and then letting it cool. I also won't drain oil if the previous run cycle didn't get to operating temp as that will prevent the normal shutdown drain from being as effective.

My cold oil drain is usually a few hours after shutdown, so maybe that's warm to some. It's not scalding hot anywhere, and then I let it drain overnight. Oil filter the next morning. Cummins want's the oil to get to 140° before shutting it off to change, so I'd guess I am around there. If I am in a hurry I'll drain it hot, but not for any reason other than time. I still let it drain for a couple hours and do the filter last... it's just not as nice with all the heat.


There is nothing wrong with doing a hot oil drain, but it's not needed to have clean engine internals. So at the end of the day, change your oil how you want.

What more important is letting the oil drain long enough, often when you take the vehicle to a dealership/mechanic they don't let it drain long enough. Cummins even has a note about a minimum of a 30 minute drain time.

 

[Wayne M.]

In this debate on weather to drain hot or cold, I only have this;
Fry up some bacon in 2 identical pans. After the bacon is done-
Drain one pan into the sink while it's hot.
Drain one pan into the sink after it's cooled, even a bit.
Look at both pans and see what's left behind.
This is a drastic example, but I'm sure that after a few cold drains, there will be accumulation that would have came down with the hot oil.
Also, I like the idea of the refill/ restart on a warm engine.
A warm engine is a happy place when it's real cold out anyhow.

 

[AH64ID]

You filter your bacon grease?

Your engine oil is becoming a solid at room temp?

It’s not an drastic example, it’s an irrelevant example.

Your engine oil is constantly circulated and filtered, bacon is neither. If hot oil removes that much from your pan you have much bigger issues.

 

[lpennock]

Food for thought on hot vs cool. The oil filter is a 20-30 um filter so anything smaller than that is in suspension while running. On shut down it starts dropping out of suspension. The real question would be how much is pulled back in to suspension as the oil drains out of the pan.

 

[Wayne M.]

Cummins would have an oil pan that fully drained, instead of keeping nearly a quart at each change.

Hows that? isn't the capacity 12 Quarts? That's that I drop and replace everytime.