DEF Mixture- Distalled / Deionized Water 10-17%

[JR]

I gotta say I'm a bit surprised you favor the Dmax's.

Definitely not a poor man's sport.

 

[TCDiesel]

Yep, All My company and private vehicles are Cummins and Rams.....Navistar's.

Back when I teamed up With the Carlson's it was costing $2-4K per week ( if pulling ) Just to keep Both trucks pulling regularly.

A fully dressed 2000HP+ D-Max pulling Engine $100-150K...Back in 2013-14 The engine in My Icon took 2nd and 8th Place at TS and Scheids ... That engine is retired...Next year when I finish the New No-limit engine I will change My Icon to that engine.

The Duramax engine is a solid engine and it can compete with Cummins at the track...In private and DD use The Cummins is more versatile and in long term ownership will cost less + parts availability.

I always tell the fans that a pulling mans heart must be more powerful than his Bank account.

 

[TCDiesel]

Talk to KB on His 2018 Been Running 2 Gallons of Distilled Water to 2.5 Gallons DEF .He purchases DEF at Various Stores from Menards to Truck Stops. gets his distilled water at Local Grocery stores....0 DEF problems, For all the unbelievers read My Sig.

Find me this style ( or similar ) of Needed sensor on any RAM Truck to measure the concentration or Quality, any Type of Thermal sensor would be destroyed at freezing.

In tank Sensors that are capable of DEF concentration are complex and require special commands. The truck does have DEF Dosing Module that's it.

My guess on DEF quality is algorithm based on usage. In others words when usage is not occurring the message appears.

 

[Wayne M.]

The one at left looks like the one Mack uses. The sensor is at the “toe of the boot”

 

[TCDiesel]

Don't know of All Apps Wayne, Commercial shippers are under much tighter regulations and Have on-road Inspections, I have yet to Here of anyone's DEF tank being dip by any State of Fed Law enforcement.... and it would be a legal battle for the GOV to Prove that the lower levels do NOT meet CAA law.

I'm not encouraging anyone to break Laws (If any) Back in 2014 at API national meeting I inquired and Demanded an answer why 32.5% was the cert, The API rep stated that was our requirement for the Cert.

What's even more odd mixing at lower concentration 10-15% increase the Ammonia Smell at Idle. I've e left My Trucks run for lengthy times Although I can smell the increase it has NEVER been irritating or bothersome Just increase smell.

More questions than answers.

 

[josephc1]

I understand the freeze point of DEF @ 32.5% concentration is 12ºf. What would be the freeze point of DEF at 15% - 20% concentration. Heading for Wyoming in a couple of weeks, just wondering if I'll be having issues.

 

[gsbrockman]

I understand the freeze point of DEF @ 32.5% concentration is 12ºf. What would be the freeze point of DEF at 15% - 20% concentration. Heading for Wyoming in a couple of weeks, just wondering if I'll be having issues.

You bring up an excellent point.

With the specified 32.5% concentration freezing at about 12*F, I’m guessing the DEF heater gets a signal to turn on from the ambient temperature sensor at say 14*F. At any other concentration lower than 32.5%, it will freeze below 32*F BUT it might remain frozen above say 15*F as the DEF heater might not be commanded to turn on.

I hope @sag2 can dig into this additionally!

 

[TCDiesel]

Early heaters were corrupting the mixture by getting to Hot.... Most Now come on 25F and say on until 40F My 2013 sits during the winter months Nov 1 April 1 , outside, I generally will Use it to Pull My Snowmobile trailer to the Cabin in West Yellowstone, 2-3 Times during that Time Frame, I will start it and drive it around the block Once every 10-14 Days ( At Home) when temp and road conditions permit it. The 13 only see's the shop for maintenance and upgrades. This will be its 7th winter season outside.

I also have kept the level at 10-15% all winter, its generally around 25% during winter Months.
Josephc1 Your fine all year round even as low as 10% DS/DW both have NO solids removed when it freezes very little expansion.

I've even crawled under truck and check (DEF) tank Temp with infrared gun, I also check My fuel Tank temp... I have the auxiliary Fuel Heater in the Bypass filtration system.

 

[Newsa]

As long as the expanding frozen def mixture does not bust your tank..... I doubt it will, it is progranmed to be ok without def until the def heater has time to get warm

 

[josephc1]

Why I asked Is in a couple of weeks I'll be going to Guernsey Wyoming. I'll be in that area for about 10 days and the truck will be sleeping outside. At this point my DEF reads about 17%, trying to decide if I should dump it and run full strength 32%. It would be nice to know at what temperature the DEF tank heaters come on. I know at 17% the DEF will freeze at a higher temp than 12º. TC in Minnesota doesn't seem to have a problem with lower concentrations so could be all my concerns are for nothing.

 

[Newsa]

When you choose to be a guinea pig and test uncharted waters like TC and SAG2, you may just be letting us know if you have a problem. I posted before that i would NEVER put more than a quart of water in mine at a time.

Let us know how it goes. Or be on the safe side and go back to 30+% where we know you should be fine

 

[Newsa]

But remember, if you dump what's in your tank you will not likely be benefiting from the phenomenal savings that TC claims?

 

[TCDiesel]

Josephc1I currently have customers In Lusk, Douglas, Guernsey WY, doing clean up on the Pipeline.

I have to ship out CP4 (Lusk) for 2011 D-Max, he's deleted because of all the DEF problems
His co worker follow my recommendation in His D-max Heck he's running DS for years. with 0 problems Emissions intact, He's 2.5-3 Gallons 32.5 and dumps in 1 Gallon DS.

Here's pages and 6 Years of DEF related problems for D-max, the D-max heater is more problematic than Rams, and the heater caused more DEF problems at 32.5%

https://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/11-16-lml-duramax-powertrain/193378-calling-out-all-who-had-problems-def-emissions-243.html

 

[TCDiesel]

But remember, if you dump what's in your tank you will not likely be benefiting from the phenomenal savings that TC claims?

Newsa ... it cost 1000s of owners $1000s in repair cost. So how many Phone call(s) do get at School about DEF problems, I can see WHY your a Teacher , teacher do just that teach and in almost all cases lack the still to be innovative, or challenge the Status guo. Your foremost teaching is fear and its in every Keystroke you type.

 

[Newsa]

DEF is not blended at normal ambient temps. Both the Urea and water are put together at greater than 200 F.

Combining large quatities of water with DEF may not be the best way????

 

[Newsa]

If i put a quart of reagent grade DI water in my tank.... And even if it doesn't perfectly blend with the urea, it will only occasionally squirt some full strengrh water through my system and clean it out.

 

[TCDiesel]

The higher the concentrate of Urea the more insoluble it becomes, You would need to be careful mixing solid into DI/DS, Mixing concentrated 32.5% with DS is instant.

Mixing solid to water takes 2-10 minutes @ 32.% % ratio being stirred/circulate is required.

 

[Newsa]

When industry blends DEF, they use pure (melted) liquid urea

 

[TCDiesel]

Newsa ,C'mon step outside of the box and dump in the Gallon of DS, occasionally, Your DEF system will thank you and will lower the risk of DEF relate fears.

 

[TCDiesel]

When industry blends DEF, they use pure (melted) liquid urea

WHY , because it speeds up the blending process more $$$ profits.