Ram Cummins vs. New Ford 7.3 gasser

[JR]

Fender, you seem to be really taking offense. I don't think John ever intended for that but your not exactly being receptive. Let me try and reiterate.

You can absolutely get behind the wheel of a "Cummins version" as you call it and not push a single button. There won't be any cylinder deactivation. There also won't be an exhaust brake unless you push a button. Every time. You can press the exhaust brake button Everytime you get in it but unless you press tow/haul button the exhaust brake will likely not be as aggressive as you like.
If you tow alot you WILL have to press buttons each time the truck is started.
Either way, your pressing buttons. Seems like it's something you don't care for, and from the description of your nuances you will not be satisfied with another new Ram truck.

 

[Fender1325]

I cannot stand it when someone says "Ya know all you had to do was "xyz" right?". Especially if they didn't own the same model.

It's incorrect information. Take it from me, the guy who owned it and drove it for 7 months. The dealership literally replaced the active noise dampeners because the tech drove along with me and felt the droning vibration throughout the entire cab at 1900 rpm. It did not fix it.

That's a design flaw. Plain and simple. And according to half ton owners, you can opt out of the MDS mode, and keep it off.

It would be the equivalent of the horn beeping once every time you pass 50 mph. And brand loyalists defending it. "It's not a big deal dude, all you have to do is scroll into horn silence mode every time you turn on the truck. Jeeze if that's a big deal to you on a $45k truck you won't like any other vehicle."

Just retarded.

And the "government" argument is a fail. Tell me why ford and chevy don't have that issue, and furthermore the EPA doesn't require manufacturers of these HD trucks to post mileage?

 

[Fender1325]

Let's be crystal clear here.

There's a HUGE difference between needing to opt out of forced driving modes to do regular driving and engaging features that are tools for towing. That would be like me being mad I had to hit something to engage my high beams on dark roads. ENTIRELY different concept.

 

[nukegm]

Let's be crystal clear here.

There's a HUGE difference between needing to opt out of forced driving modes to do regular driving and engaging features that are tools for towing. That would be like me being mad I had to hit something to engage my high beams on dark roads. ENTIRELY different concept.

comrade - have a couple beers. most everyone on this forum are good people. lots of knowledge to share here. sometimes intent doesnt come through right with just typing. just my .02 cents. cheers!

 

[dieselshadow]

Wow. Just wow.

You have some really good folks who know their stuff trying their darnedest to help you. They’ve been nothing but cordial and respectful to you and you respond this way? That’s not cool. John is one of the most stand-up helpful guys who’s super knowledgeable on these trucks. He’s spent his time trying to help you. Voluntarily.

Just because someone doesn’t own a particular model doesn’t mean they aren’t knowledgeable. Maybe they did their homework. Maybe they have a in-depth experience you’re not aware of. Perhaps they work for FCA or a dealer? You don’t know.

I don’t claim to be an expert. Neither do most members here. But they do try and help anyone who asks.

John has a vehicle similar to mine and we both have air suspension options. Our trucks do not act the same. It doesn’t mean he’s ignorant. He’s put a bunch of effort in trying help solve the mystery. (It seems to be around my truck... Another story...) If the shoe was on the other foot, I would do whatever I could to help him. That’s how this works.

Please don’t take what members here are posting out of context or warp it into something it’s not. You can easily ignore it if you completely disagree. That’s your right and choice. It happens. That’s life.

But I will assure you, every member who’s responded, especially AH64 (John) was just trying to help you.

 

[Fender1325]

Wow. Just wow.

You have some really good folks who know their stuff trying their darn feet to help you. They’ve been nothing but cordial and respectful to you and you respond this way? That’s not cool. John is one of the most stand-up helpful guys who’s super knowledgeable on these trucks. He’s spent his time trying to help you. Voluntarily.

Just because someone doesn’t own a particular model doesn’t mean they aren’t knowledgeable. Maybe they did their homework. Maybe they have a in-depth experience you’re not aware of. Perhaps they work for FCA or a dealer? You don’t know.

I don’t claim to be an expert. Neither do most members here. But they do try and help anyone who asks.

John has a vehicle similar to mine and we both have air suspension options. Our trucks do not act the same. It doesn’t mean he’s ignorant. He’s put a bunch of effort in trying help solve the mystery. (It seems to be around my truck... Another story...) If the show was on the other foot, I would do whatever I could to help him. That’s how this works.

Please don’t take what members here are posting out of context or warp it into something it’s not. You can easily ignore it if you completely disagree. That’s your right and choice. It happens. That’s life.

But I will assure you, every member who’s responded, especially AH64 (John) was just trying to help you.

Just trying to help? Ok.

After reading why I sold a vehicle...."ya know all you had to do was (insert opinion with incorrect information)" "gee, ya sold an entire truck just because you had to hit some buttons? You won't like any new truck then."

Comes across a lot more like "you don't know what you're doing and sold a perfectly good truck for petty reasons."

Which is really annoying, especially when said person doesn't own the same truck.

Do you know how many times I've heard "my MDS is seamless I don't know why you're complaining". And then the fact that their ram is 10 years older, and a 2wd short bed half ton comes out.

Point is, don't tell me about what I already know through direct experience. It would be one thing if I said gee guys, I'm trying to correct this and can't figure it out. Got any ideas?

But here we are.

 

[dieselshadow]

Just trying to help? Ok.

After reading why I sold a vehicle...."ya know all you had to do was (insert opinion with incorrect information)" "gee, ya sold an entire truck just because you had to hit some buttons? You won't like any new truck then."

Comes across a lot more like "you don't know what you're doing and sold a perfectly good truck for petty reasons."

Which is really annoying, especially when said person doesn't own the same truck.

Do you know how many times I've heard "my MDS is seamless I don't know why you're complaining". And then the fact that their ram is 10 years older, and a 2wd short bed half ton comes out.

Point is, don't tell me about what I already know through direct experience. It would be one thing if I said gee guys, I'm trying to correct this and can't figure it out. Got any ideas?

But here we are.

IDK, I owned a ‘17 Ram 2500 w/6.4 Hemi. So my opinions and knowledge would be discounted as useless I guess.

I’ll say this much, the info you got was spot on.

 

[Fender1325]

IDK, I owned a ‘17 Ram 2500 w/6.4 Hemi. So my opinions and knowledge would be discounted as useless I guess.

I’ll say this much, the info you got was spot on.

Considering you had an entirely different transmission? Yes.

Nobody was asking for input on how the MDS functions or how to turn it off.

See if you owned the same year and model I did, you wouldn't be on here trying to explain anything to me about it. Because what I said is fact.

You need to scroll to gear 8 every single time you put the truck in gear if you want it to operate like normal with no MDS. If you only hit it once, and are driving slow, it will highlight the gear you're in, let's say 3 for example, and lock out 5-8. That's not helpful is it. It's a hassle. I don't know why anyone fails to get that.

 

[dieselshadow]

....as mentioned before, the “Cummins option” does exactly the same thing.

 

[Fender1325]

....as mentioned before, the “Cummins option” does exactly the same thing.

I don't understand. And on a side note, again, what's wrong with saying ..."'cummins option"?

 

[dieselshadow]

If you’re looking for a different transmission operational sequence, than the Cummins with either transmission option will offer you no relief. All HD Rams automatic transmissions operate the same once you start using the up/down buttons. Period.

The Cummins does not have MDS. That’s the only difference. All six cylinders are burning all the time. Or they aren’t. It’s a team effort. All or nothing.

 

[Fender1325]

If you’re looking for a different transmission operational sequence, than the Cummins with either transmission option will offer you no relief. All HD Rams automatic transmissions operate the same once you start using the up/down buttons. Period.

The Cummins does not have MDS. That’s the only difference. All six cylinders are burning all the time. Or they aren’t. It’s a team effort. All or nothing.

Dude......

MDS is the problem here. That's why I had to scroll through gears in the 8 speed. It turns off MDS and leaving it in 8 allows it to function as it should - with no cylinder deactivation.

That, and the cam/lifter failure was the whole reason I sold the truck.

Hence, why I'm considering the cummins. Neither of those items are an issue.

 

[dieselshadow]

Dude......

MDS is the problem here. That's why I had to scroll through gears in the 8 speed. It turns off MDS and leaving it in 8 allows it to function as it should - with no cylinder deactivation.

That, and the cam/lifter failure was the whole reason I sold the truck.

Hence, why I'm considering the cummins. Neither of those items are an issue.

As John mentioned, once you’ve accelerated to the first full speed, it’s one button push to deactivate MDS. If you weren’t in 8th gear, than yes, you have to scroll (multiple button pushes) to get to 8. It is what it is. They are all the same. All Ram HDs. Cummins is 6, not 8 gears. That’s the only difference.

The Cummins comes with its own issues. (Just like any truck does.) You have a space shuttle like exhaust system under the truck that can’t easily be removed or bypassed and requires certain driving routines or extra maintenance to maintain and keep happy. Some are ok with that, others not so much. That’s a personal decision.

Keeping up with DEF fluid, regens, SCRs, injector cleanings, and other miscellaneous maintenance items are the new norm with any new diesel vehicle.

The Cummins/Aisin option is hands down the best towing option out there. But is that what you want? Do you want to pay for the extra maintenance on the transmission, the high prices on oil changes, and deal with the emissions equipment?

These are all personal decisions. Only you know what you want and need.

 

[Fender1325]

As John mentioned, once you’ve accelerated to the first full speed, it’s one button push to deactivate MDS. If you weren’t in 8th gear, than yes, you have to scroll (multiple button pushes) to get to 8. It is what it is. They are all the same. All Ram HDs. Cummins is 6, not 8 gears. That’s the only difference.

The Cummins comes with its own issues. (Just like any truck does.) You have a space shuttle like exhaust system under the truck that can’t easily be removed or bypassed and requires certain driving routines or extra maintenance to maintain and keep happy. Some are ok with that, others not so much. That’s a personal decision.

Keeping up with DEF fluid, regens, SCRs, injector cleanings, and other miscellaneous maintenance items are the new norm with any new diesel vehicle.

The Cummins/Aisin option is hands down the best towing option out there. But is that what you want? Do you want to pay for the extra maintenance on the transmission, the high prices on oil changes, and deal with the emissions equipment?

These are all personal decisions. Only you know what you want and need.

MDS would first engage in my neighborhood everyday, going around 20 mph. At that speed I don't know what gear it is, but you're not in 8 until you're on the highway. MDS was annoying at all speeds. The only way to avoid it is as soon as you put it in drive, hit it multiple times until you hit 8. And if you so happen to back up and then back to drive? Scroll time again. That's a hassle.

My thing is this, I'm not going to be buying a truck every 5 years, or have plans of selling when the warranty is up. I need to get 15 years and 200k miles out of whatever I buy, especially at these prices.

The catastrophic CP4 failures I've been seeing from owners on a facebook 5th gen cummins page have me leaning towards the Ford gasser.

I have literally seen the repair prices go from 10k to 42k. The 42k was actually a cummins owner whos engine blew a hole in the side of the block. Took out the engine obviously, whole fuel system, and torque converter. I still don't see 42k, it not being totaled, but atleast it was under warranty.

 

[Wayne M.]

I didn’t look hard, and it does not address the issue we’re having in this thread, but I thought I’d chuck this bomb in the room.

 

[crazy jerry]

That is just WEIRD, why does the 5.7 MDS work so seamless and unnoticed from the Driver and the 6.4 is just horrible? I mean its actually the same engine with different displacement.

the op is the only one saying its horrible. my 2017 6.4 supposedly has mds but ill be damned if you can tell when its on or off. he should probly take himself back over to the ford forums and call it a day

 

[crazy jerry]

It was hard to sell the truck for me (my 19 2500 crew cab hemi). It had the looks, comfort and ability.

But that MDS was truly disappointing in the driving experience, and the cam/lifter failure was astonishing once I asked around (people with Chrysler trucks).

To top it off, nobody local to me actually carried the specific flavor of oil as spec'd in the manual.

It was juuuuuust enough things that kept me from having all that money tied up in that vehicle. So close to being a winner.

you sound like that same twit on the ram site talking crap. oh my steering wheel clicked. i cant find the oil. uncle tony the moron says my cam is crap. blah blah.

you get to the ford site so excited about that bad ass new ford

now your running back to the ram sites . must of lost all confidence in the ferd i suppose. or was it the 99% chance youll end up with death woble and other front end problems that scared you away ?

 

[Timd32]

I didn’t look hard, and it does not address the issue we’re having in this thread, but I thought I’d chuck this bomb in the room.

6.4 $69 - $71k ouch no limited slip rears IDK, Transforce AT's...... even at the $54k for the gasser Ford.

That 6.4 Firestone Transforce AT, I was not too impressed with my stock set of those, not sure if others had better luck with theirs? I could just be hard on tires and its user caused.

CTD to 7.3, its basically similar to the 6.4 except some unknown new issues who knows what they will be with the 7.3 they never get these perfect, and they claim there is a engine in that compartment somewhere, look at all that crap in the engine bay.

Going back to the OP thread question and having 32k miles on my 6.4, I would go to a CTD vs a 7.3, for the CTD after that video I'm sticking with Tradesman trim and Work Vinyl, rubber mat floor, LSD rears, mine is a work truck anyway. Would spring for some auto steps.

 

[NIsaacs]

Ram v/s Ford.....pretty much anytime you see this on TDR, you will also encounter some anti-Ford sentiment. Either out loud or sneaky, it is there....

 

[dieselshadow]

Ram v/s Ford.....pretty much anytime you see this on TDR, you will also encounter some anti-Ford sentiment. Either out loud or sneaky, it is there....

I couldn’t care less what you own and drive. As long as it makes you happy and gets the job done, that’s all that matters.

I really don’t think you can go wrong with any choices presented here as long as the strengths and weaknesses are understood with each truck. There almost certainly is no “perfect truck.” That’s why we add, modify, and personalize them.