Pushing Coolant out the Cap

[Darkbloodmon]

03 5.9 H.O. 6MT 228K, New BBI stage .1s less than 30K on them, Re-blueprinted Stock HE341 from Turbo Resource ceramic coated on hot side, New stock manifold ceramic coated. No tuning. No Gauges. Fleece bowl delete (no fuel heater), Fass 95 T SS.

Just noticed today that coolant is being pushed out my rad cap. Ambient was 30* and my operational temps were low between 176 and 181. Over flow bottle is as I left it at the max mark, valve train is covered in concentrated sin no milky residue. Current rad cap was a gates, It did feel loose with the engine hot and cool. Replaced with a CARQUEST 10230. It feels tighter but I'll have to test drive it again after replacing it.

I've been inside the cooling system since day one. Water pump was replaced (A/C Delco), T-stat 190*(Gates), Rad cap (gates), and drive belt has a gates kit. Old rad hoses were swapped for Mishimoto(with clamps) Silicone ones when I got a bulge. After doing the water pump a year ago It had been leaking out the weep hole for the longest time, system was always topped off. All of these components have no more than or just over a year on them. Most recently less than 3 months ago, I resealed my oil cooler(Mahle GS33485), did an extensive flush with 2 gallons of fleet guard system cleaner and restore plus as well as resealed the water pump and the system is immaculate with fresh G05. No coolant leaks, normal temperatures, everything nominal.

Within the last two days I've only had one symptom to spook me bad, this was a non block heated (cord and element shot) cold start. Ambient was 25* frost on everything. Looked like white smoke on start up, It was hard to tell as it was a clear sky and very bright winter morning, Parked with the sun facing the bed from behind, it was hard to tell if it was just the frost melting or something more, My exhaust rusted off right after the muffler so the muffler just dumps right at the beginning of the bed which makes it hard to diagnose by sight; so I use the bed stake holes to smell test since the fumes get pocket and it smelled normal. After reaching winter operational temps 175-180 exhaust smelled as it should near operating temps, no smoke, no haze.

I'm going to do a block test but I really don't want to..., Was just about to sit down and go through my front end after Christmas with EMF ball joints and SKF wheel bearing assemblies. I've been playing catch up work with this truck since I've had it and just rolled over a year of owner ship. Spent well over 8gs in repairs and upgrades to previous system designs all the work done in my drive way, I really don't want to deal with a head gasket. I'm starting to loose sleep like Powerstroke owners.

Anyone have any insight?

 

[AH64ID]

Regardless of non-Arctic ambient temps you should be able to get the block to 190° and hold that, thou it may take some extra time. You should be hot within 12-18 miles of driving. Are you sure it’s a 190° thermostat and not a 180° one?

I would put your stock fuel filter back in, and try a OEM radiator cap and thermostat. Get whatever you can from Cummins not Dodge.

 

[petersonj]

Just noticed today that coolant is being pushed out my rad cap. Ambient was 30* and my operational temps were low between 176 and 181. Over flow bottle is as I left it at the max mark, valve train is covered in concentrated sin no milky residue.

Could you elaborate on this a bit more since it is a normal function for coolant to be passing through the radiator cap in either direction (to or from the overflow tank) most of the time during normal engine operating conditions.

Also, not sure what "valve train is covered in concentrated sin no milky residue" means.

- John

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Regardless of non-Arctic ambient temps you should be able to get the block to 190° and hold that, thou it may take some extra time. You should be hot within 12-18 miles of driving. Are you sure it’s a 190° thermostat and not a 180° one?

I would put your stock fuel filter back in, and try a OEM radiator cap and thermostat. Get whatever you can from Cummins not Dodge.

Commute was 11mi on the highway, temps observed from OBDII port using Blue Driver, only factory spec replacements used, 190* T-Stat. What's your reasoning behind re-plumbing the factory bowl? I've already re plumbed the whole system with a bowl delete and fass 95. I'll try the T stat next.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Could you elaborate on this a bit more since it is a normal function for coolant to be passing through the radiator cap in either direction (to or from the overflow tank) most of the time during normal engine operating conditions.

Also, not sure what "valve train is covered in concentrated sin no milky residue" means.

- John

Coolant is being pushed out of the radiator and leaking at the cap, the cap is not maintaining system pressure it's leaking.
Valve train is covered in oil as dark as sin, No coolant present, No milkshake between water and oil mixing. Nominal.

 

[AH64ID]

Commute was 11mi on the highway, temps observed from OBDII port using Blue Driver, only factory spec replacements used, 190* T-Stat. What's your reasoning behind re-plumbing the factory bowl? I've already re plumbed the whole system with a bowl delete and fass 95. I'll try the T stat next.

The factory bowl provides excellent filtration, a heater, and a WIF sensor. In most applications there is no benefit or good reason to remove it.

Id take a longer way to work and see if your temps come up. If the thermostat meets Cummins spec it should crack at 190°, but isn’t full open until 207°. It takes a good load on a 5.9 to get to 207° but it should have no problems holding 188°-194° in 25°F weather.

Without further info it sounds like a bad radiator cap and a bad thermostat.


Why did you have to replace the oil cooler?

 

[Darkbloodmon]

The factory bowl provides excellent filtration, a heater, and a WIF sensor. In most applications there is no benefit or good reason to remove it.

Id take a longer way to work and see if your temps come up. If the thermostat meets Cummins spec it should crack at 190°, but isn’t full open until 207°. It takes a good load on a 5.9 to get to 207° but it should have no problems holding 188°-194° in 25°F weather.

Without further info it sounds like a bad radiator cap and a bad thermostat.


Why did you have to replace the oil cooler?

I've not seen 190 since summer, I drive city 90% of the time and have to lean on it to get temps close to 190. Oil cooler was resealed. I was installing the new turbo and manifold and found the fitting for the oil feed to the turbo had been previously overtightened and it stripped the filter housing port. I sourced a used housing, new gaskets, Oil cooler is still original. I'll stick with my current fuel setup, It still maintains the WIF, and we don't see crazy low temps in NC.

 

[AH64ID]

I've not seen 190 since summer, I drive city 90% of the time and have to lean on it to get temps close to 190. Oil cooler was resealed. I was installing the new turbo and manifold and found the fitting for the oil feed to the turbo had been previously overtightened and it stripped the filter housing port. I sourced a used housing, new gaskets, Oil cooler is still original. I'll stick with my current fuel setup, It still maintains the WIF, and we don't see crazy low temps in NC.

Honestly the temps you’re describing sound like a 180° thermostat, so it likely needs changed. The truck will run better at 190°.

How were you able to relocate the WIF sensor onto the FASS?

Which filters are on your FASS? Many of the suggested filters don’t meet the min spec for CR’s. Don’t believe all the marketing, there is no such thing as a 2 micron fuel filter anymore, that spec went away in 2004. I’d run a FASS if I went aftermarket, but I’d be running different filters than they supply.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Honestly the temps you’re describing sound like a 180° thermostat, so it likely needs changed. The truck will run better at 190°.

How were you able to relocate the WIF sensor onto the FASS?

Which filters are on your FASS? Many of the suggested filters don’t meet the min spec for CR’s. Don’t believe all the marketing, there is no such thing as a 2 micron fuel filter anymore, that spec went away in 2004. I’d run a FASS if I went aftermarket, but I’d be running different filters than they supply.

T stat is a 190* from receipts, I'll swap it for a new one and follow up with any additional symptoms. WIF isn't re-located to the Fass, Fleece delete block has ports for the WIF. You've mentioned to me before about filters, Cat 1R-0750 and a Baldwin BF7546. The whole fuel delivery system has been up rooted, only OEM line is the return to the top of the sending unit. 52 Gallon S&B, Fass 95 SS, Fleece bowl delete.

 

[AH64ID]

The WIF sensor in the delete block is about useless since if it goes off that means your fuel lines are water and unless you shut it down instantly it’s too late, unlike standard installation in the bottom of then filter where the water isn’t being sucked up yet.

The 1R-0750 is a good filter, but outdated technology for common rails. I ran one for years, but upgraded to a P551313 and then a FF5814. IMO the FF5814 had the best media available for HPCR’s.

The BF7456 is not a filter I’m familiar with and I don’t see it in my notes, but Baldwin f/w seps are generally terrific.

Honestly stock filter deletes are not beneficial to most users, especially in the sub 600hp realm. IMO they are more of a track only thing.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

The WIF sensor in the delete block is about useless since if it goes off that means your fuel lines are water and unless you shut it down instantly it’s too late, unlike standard installation in the bottom of then filter where the water isn’t being sucked up yet.

The 1R-0750 is a good filter, but outdated technology for common rails. I ran one for years, but upgraded to a P551313 and then a FF5814. IMO the FF5814 had the best media available for HPCR’s.

The BF7456 is not a filter I’m familiar with and I don’t see it in my notes, but Baldwin f/w seps are generally terrific.

Honestly stock filter deletes are not beneficial to most users, especially in the sub 600hp realm. IMO they are more of a track only thing.

If the WIF goes off for any time after start up you're boned either way. I understand the benefits of the OEM design but I drain my F/W sep. regularly.

The BF7546 was a cross I pulled from Fass' list. I used a Cat 175-2949 twice and they all leaked at the drain cock by design, I've cut one open and there is a seal at the bottom like a lip, if any particles don't pass through the drain cock orifice and get wedged in between the seal and the bottom filter casing you have a leak that you can't fix. BF1212 looked to be the same design hence I avoided it. BF7546 has a simple design, 10mm bolt on the bottom with a external rubber gasket. decent sized orifice for anything to fall out. Could easily replace the gasket with a thin piece of rubber if it leaks from the drain. I'll be switching to the FF5814 next filter change.

I've got power goals in the future, I'd like to get close to the max specs of the Kevlar clutch (yet to install) 490 HP, and 880 ft lb with my current fuel setup and tuning. But this is a goal after I finish all the mess I was left by the previous owners.

 

[Ozymandias]

Coolant is being pushed out of the radiator and leaking at the cap, the cap is not maintaining system pressure it's leaking.
Valve train is covered in oil as dark as sin, No coolant present, No milkshake between water and oil mixing. Nominal.

Your cap is crap, there should be never a leak right at the cap, even overheating it will just steam into the bottle and not direct to the outside.

Oil is always that black, even right after an oil change.

 

[AH64ID]

If the WIF goes off for any time after start up you're boned either way. I understand the benefits of the OEM design but I drain my F/W sep. regularly.

The BF7546 was a cross I pulled from Fass' list. I used a Cat 175-2949 twice and they all leaked at the drain cock by design, I've cut one open and there is a seal at the bottom like a lip, if any particles don't pass through the drain cock orifice and get wedged in between the seal and the bottom filter casing you have a leak that you can't fix. BF1212 looked to be the same design hence I avoided it. BF7546 has a simple design, 10mm bolt on the bottom with a external rubber gasket. decent sized orifice for anything to fall out. Could easily replace the gasket with a thin piece of rubber if it leaks from the drain. I'll be switching to the FF5814 next filter change.

I've got power goals in the future, I'd like to get close to the max specs of the Kevlar clutch (yet to install) 490 HP, and 880 ft lb with my current fuel setup and tuning. But this is a goal after I finish all the mess I was left by the previous owners.

With the way the WIF sensor sits in the stock filters, or aftermarket filters, there is plenty of time for being able to pull over and empty the filter.

If your truck sets a WIF light it will record milage driven, and after 500 miles it records a second code. This is to let the dealership know you’ve been avoiding it. The point is that 500 miles is a long time and a number Dodge/Ram seems to have some faith in.

With the WIF sensor in the fuel line your filter is already full and pumping water directly into the CP3 and thus injectors, you have seconds from its illumination. Not to mention it will not be able to pick up partial water as the filter fills, it won’t be until it’s solid water. This setup has you boned, not the stock one.

Draining your filters often is good practice, but doesn’t do much for getting a gallon of water from a bad station and getting back on the road.



Good call ditching the Cat f/w seps, most of the ones I’ve researched don’t meet the Cummins f/w sep specs for our engines.

I’m doing a little more research on the BF7546. The BF1212 is a great filter and my go to f/w sep recommendation. It has the flow and separation rates needed.

The stock canister can easily support more flow than you have with the 95GPH pump and what that clutch will hold.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Follow up after CarQuest cap replacement. Ambient temps were in the mid to high 40s today , Engine coolant temp was monitored through the OBDII port using Blue driver, Engine temps were more consistent at the 181-189 range. No leaks present at rad cap, and the cap was warm to the touch not hot. I still plan on swapping the T-stat when that comes in. Oil level and condition was checked at the dip stick, nothing abnormal.

The route I took today for errands was longer and I spent about 20 mins idling in a drive through for my credit union. I noticed an additional symptom that made my heart drop. Warning chime comes on and my Fuel and voltage gauge have a conniption, Fuel needle drops to E; gas light on and then spikes back to F (just filled up yesterday so it's pegged), Voltage meter does the same but without a battery light; slaps 8v then back to normal at 14.4v just over the half way mark. This happened several times during this one trip and again as I was writing my trip log in the drive way about to turn her off.

My charging system is stock with the factory alternator 136amp, And I clean and check my connections and batteries frequently, tops are clean of any dirt or build up and my connections are corrosion free. Batteries were tested before winter and and good shape. I recently cleaned my engine grounds six months ago. Alternator has 228K miles on it and the bearings have noise but the output is still normal.

My fuel sending unit was replaced with a Delphi one when I replaced my factory tank with the S&B as they had failed to tell me the early 03 and 04s sending units didn't fit and that I needed an 07 one. The sending unit is stock with all factory harnesses and connections except for the fuel pump, the plumbing was disconnected and the ports at the top of the sending unit were capped.

I'm going to go through my 03 service manual and preform the gauge cluster function test and see if any codes pull up. I do have bulbs that are going out or are very dim on the cluster.

Ideas?

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Follow up after gauge cluster diagnostic test

06 35 - MIL Indicator Output circuit open
23 66 - Headlamp switch input circuit open ( low beam driver side head light is out)
29 00 - Cargo Lamp output circuit shorted or open (Cargo lamp bulbs removed, leds were staying on faintly)
64 15 Driver Door lock switch input circuit open (Might have something to do with my interior lights no coming on when a door is opened front or rear)
00 00

I also pulled the soft codes that have not triggered a check engine light

P0628 - Fuel pump "A" control circuit low ( known, factory connector for lift pump has been pulled)
P0602 - Control Module programing error ( this a new one, truck hasn't been tuned, only person to touch the ECM has been the dealership to re-flash it to the most current updates)
P0837 - 4WD Switch circuit range / performance (Known, I have a NP271D)
P0483 - Cooling Fan rationality check malfc. (Known, Clutch fan.)

Anything standing out?

 

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, Fan clutch is standing out.
We know that this thing can generate all kinds of weird codes not the slightest associated with the clutch or its circuit.

I would start with a new fan clutch, OEM please, and then move on from there.
At that age the clutch anyway needs replacement.

 

[Darkbloodmon]

Follow up: T-stat came in Stant Super Stat 46289 190*. Replaced today and test driven, T-stat operates much better than the previous whereas I could barely get it to open and reach operational temperatures. Ambient temp for this observation was 48* and I was unloaded doing city driving. I was able to maintain ideal operational temperatures much better, I was hovering at 190-196 with consistency while driving, Idling in traffic I was able to maintain 189*, 187* with heaters on full blast at idle. No coolant was pushed out of the new (Carquest) rad cap. This T-stat is advertised as being more accurate and efficient at regulating temperatures for heavy duty applications as well as more durable (to be seen) and my first impressions are very positive that the product preforms as advertised night and day to the standard 190* (Gates brand maybe). I'll keep the old T-stat as a back up.

At this time I'm going to hold off on the clutch fan. I've been through two summers and going on two winters without it and who knows how long it's been out from the previous owners. It's not been an issue keeping the truck from moving and operating. - and they're expensive- I want to keep problems isolated as they come up and I'm just not convinced after all this time that the issues I'm having are caused by it. Only issue I've had with it is my a/c and I don't mind sweating for the time being.

I am in need of my gauge cluster to be repaired, I'm having needles drop and rise with chimes, On this test trip with the new T-stat I could count 4 occurrences that this happened. First two times were Fuel and the Charging gauge, then followed by Fuel, Charging, and Oil pressure twice. I'm assuming I have bad solder connections. Majority of my blubs in the dash are blown anyways. I'm considering sending my unit off to circuit board medics, they do a full tear down and upgrade/replacement for a decent price. Does anyone have any experience or other recommendations for repair? They seem pretty reputable with good turnaround time and reviews, as well as being versed in Chrysler products....