Smarty Touch Question(s)

[Silver Tex]

Hi All and Happy New Year!
So I finished getting my new BD pulse manifold and exhaust brake in over the weekend. Really like the performance of the components and the install went fine. Seems like EGTs are lower and that might also be contributed to by resetting my Smarty Touch to #3 with the timing set on TM2 (as was suggested by AH64ID), with everything else stock (though I may need to recheck the settings for 0’s or default).

So I had noticed something previous to the install of the new components and again noticed yesterday. I shift at pretty much 2500 rpm. After the shift and when I begin putting fuel to it, I can hear a very slight and short pinging before the RPM’s again begin to climb. Best I can describe it as - mis timed gasser, but much more subtle and no impact on power. The injectors were replaced about 10,000 miles ago with the BBi Stage .5’s.

I have searched this subject, though I don’t know if it is exactly what I am experiencing, and most of the feedback has been, it’s nothing to worry about. Any further thoughts? Is my Smarty Touch settings causing something I am not aware of?
Thanks,
Scott.

 

[Silver Tex]

Hi All and Happy New Year!
So I finished getting my new BD pulse manifold and exhaust brake in over the weekend. Really like the performance of the components and the install went fine. Seems like EGTs are lower and that might also be contributed to by resetting my Smarty Touch to #3 with the timing set on TM2 (as was suggested by AH64ID), with everything else stock (though I may need to recheck the settings for 0’s or default).

So I had noticed something previous to the install of the new components and again noticed yesterday. I shift at pretty much 2500 rpm. After the shift and when I begin putting fuel to it, I can hear a very slight and short pinging before the RPM’s again begin to climb. Best I can describe it as - mis timed gasser, but much more subtle and no impact on power. The injectors were replaced about 10,000 miles ago with the BBi Stage .5’s.

I have searched this subject, though I don’t know if it is exactly what I am experiencing, and most of the feedback has been, it’s nothing to worry about. Any further thoughts? Is my Smarty Touch settings causing something I am not aware of?
Thanks,
Scott.

Quick followup
My settings are RPM #0, Shift #0, TM#1, Timing #2, RP #1, Wastegate #0.
Thanks,
Scott.

 

[Tuesdak]

Check the cooling fan for rubbing or hitting something. The engine moves more than most expect on the mounts specifically from no power to full power so things that are far away from the fan get whacked under power. Check the mounts for failing. Undo the fan belt and check all bearings by hand.

Look at the turbo for signs of the intake compressor wheel rubbing the housing.

It's possible to have this sound from too much advance - like when things get hot lugging a grade. Hot air evaporates the diesel from the injector spray faster so it lights faster thus heat related advance. Cold out: till the turbo warms the air to really hot... Does the stock tune change the noise at all from canned tunes?

 

[AH64ID]

Sounds like timing rattle, try TM3 and see if it goes away.

 

[Silver Tex]

I’ll report back on inspection and both back to stock setting and setting TM3. Tuesdak - I can for sure affirm the intake compressor wheel is not rubbing, I’ve been up close to it for about a week and it feels good and tight with no rubbing. Will check the other stuff.

Sounds like timing rattle, try TM3 and see if it goes away.

Just for clarification John, you are talking timing and not torque management correct? Maybe you do mean torque management...
Thanks!

 

[AH64ID]

Yes timing.

 

[Silver Tex]

Well John, TM3 was not a winner. Seemed less effective. I did not pull the belt, but everything else checked out OK. I don’t know if it is that I have changed too many things over a short period of time, but my EGTs are down, at least, 150* - 175* over what they had been running - a good thing I think. It was in the 30’s driving home from work last night and when I pulled the truck into the shop, I shot the manifold with an infrared and it was only at 230*-250*. I live out in the country so I did get it up to “country road” highway speeds (55-60). I dunno.

I also read a lot more about timing rattle last night and again it seems like a slight amount at low load (I’ll call it between shifts) is not only acceptable, but perhaps even expected. I wonder if you guys actually heard it, if you wouldn’t think - what the heck is he talking about, that’s perfectly normal. I do have some bull dog OCD behavior when I believe something can be just a little bit better and I just haven’t found the right sequence yet. Could be this is showing up...again. I have read every truck responds a little bit differently.

I’ll set it back to stock this weekend to see what I see and then begin experimenting with different tune settings. Not quite ready to move to a custom tune yet, but might be something I look at later in the year.

Any further thoughts are welcomed and appreciated, particularly as I am not real familiar with the impacts of torque management and rail pressure. It seems wastegate and both limiters should remain at a stock setting.

Thanks all!
Scott.

 

[AH64ID]

Give it a shot, some timing rattle is normal depending on the tuning. A little won't hurt anything. I was able to tune it out on my 05, but when I ran a stock tune it was very noticeable.

 

[CVR222NV]

The sound you are describing sounds a lot like the "lugging" sound I experience which started when I swapped my clutch to a SBC dual disk from the stock DMF. I don't get the lugging sound when I keep the rpm shift point at 2500 rpm though. I wonder if that can be addressed in a MM3 tune?

 

[AH64ID]

Gear rollover does sound similar, but the sound originates differently and gear rollover can often been seen vibrating the rearview mirror.

 

[Silver Tex]

The ping or rattle is definitely present for only a partial second during the shift. My shift point is at 2500 RPM, by the time I get back into the pedal it’s probably at 1100-1200 RPM - call me a deliberate shifter. Maybe this bit of info helps. I really doubt any recording would pick it up, but have not tried.

I can eliminate it between shifts if I juice up the RPM’s a little before getting off the clutch. Similar to how you might align the down shift in a tractor/trailer. It literally lives momentarily at the bottom of the RPM range of the shift event. Again, there does not seem to be any issue with power or pull as it comes back up strong very quickly and no real smoke.

I expect to get the full effect of gear roll over once I put the new Valair Quiet Clutch in later this spring.

 

[AH64ID]

Just to make sure I'm following the timing of the noise.

Is it during the the shift (clutch depressed, throttle no applied) or just after then shift (clutch not depressed, throttle applied)?

 

[Silver Tex]

Just to make sure I'm following the timing of the noise.

Is it during the the shift (clutch depressed, throttle no applied) or just after then shift (clutch not depressed, throttle applied)?

It is just after the shift, clutch out and getting back into the pedal.

 

[CVR222NV]

The ping or rattle is definitely present for only a partial second during the shift. My shift point is at 2500 RPM, by the time I get back into the pedal it’s probably at 1100-1200 RPM - call me a deliberate shifter. Maybe this bit of info helps. I really doubt any recording would pick it up, but have not tried.

I can eliminate it between shifts if I juice up the RPM’s a little before getting off the clutch. Similar to how you might align the down shift in a tractor/trailer. It literally lives momentarily at the bottom of the RPM range of the shift event. Again, there does not seem to be any issue with power or pull as it comes back up strong very quickly and no real smoke.

I expect to get the full effect of gear roll over once I put the new Valair Quiet Clutch in later this spring.

What you are describing sure sounds like gear rollover to me but I'm not sure I have heard the timing ping before to know the difference. I would definitely have the gear rollover sound occur at 1100-1200 rpm with my SBC. I don't let my rpm's drop below 1800 rpm while shifting and don't have any gear rollover at that rpm. The only time I heard gear rollover with the stock clutch was when I choose the wrong gear. I definitely had to learn a new shift timing pattern when I got the SBC.

What is the build date on your truck? Dodge changed the gear ratios in the G56 in late 2006 so if you have the G56AE version you would likely experience the gear rollover sound at higher rpm's than my G56AD transmission. My guess is that the Valair will make it more pronounced.

G56 AD G56 AE (late 2006+)

1 6. 29 5. 94

2 3. 48 3. 28

3 2. 10 1. 98

4 1. 38 1. 30

5 1. 00 1. 00

6 0. 79 0. 74

 

[Silver Tex]

What you are describing sure sounds like gear rollover to me but I'm not sure I have heard the timing ping before to know the difference. I would definitely have the gear rollover sound occur at 1100-1200 rpm with my SBC. I don't let my rpm's drop below 1800 rpm while shifting and don't have any gear rollover at that rpm. The only time I heard gear rollover with the stock clutch was when I choose the wrong gear. I definitely had to learn a new shift timing pattern when I got the SBC.

What is the build date on your truck? Dodge changed the gear ratios in the G56 in late 2006 so if you have the G56AE version you would likely experience the gear rollover sound at higher rpm's than my G56AD transmission. My guess is that the Valair will make it more pronounced.

G56 AD G56 AE (late 2006+)

1 6. 29 5. 94

2 3. 48 3. 28

3 2. 10 1. 98

4 1. 38 1. 30

5 1. 00 1. 00

6 0. 79 0. 74

Hey CVR,
This is interesting. I am the opposite, I can say I don’t know the sound of gear rollover! My truck has a build date of 7-05.
When you say you don’t allow the RPM’s to drop below 1800 while shifting, do you stay on the pedal a bit during the shift or are you just really good at moving the stick?
Thanks,
Scott.

 

[CVR222NV]

Just quick on the stick!

 

[cerberusiam]

Gear rollover noise is a neutral condition not an in-gear condition. If one is hearing noise in the tran area on a G56 it is the input shaft bearing rattling around.

Letting rpms drop under 1700-1800 then rolling on the throttle is going to produce a LOT of noise. Not to mention the timing changes it also rattles the crap out of the trans with the harmonics. A G56 will allow a more aggressive shifting pattern so use it, it will be a lot easier on the drive train than dropping so low into the rpm range and having to accelerate out of the massive amount of defuel and timing changes.

 

[Silver Tex]

Gear rollover noise is a neutral condition not an in-gear condition. If one is hearing noise in the tran area on a G56 it is the input shaft bearing rattling around.

Letting rpms drop under 1700-1800 then rolling on the throttle is going to produce a LOT of noise. Not to mention the timing changes it also rattles the crap out of the trans with the harmonics. A G56 will allow a more aggressive shifting pattern so use it, it will be a lot easier on the drive train than dropping so low into the rpm range and having to accelerate out of the massive amount of defuel and timing changes.

OK! I now understand gear roller and know what it sounds like. I’ll use a more aggressive shift and am confident that will eliminate any rattle. Thanks Cerb.
Scott.

 

[cerberusiam]

You have a G56, the only way to eliminate rattles is replace it. All I know is letting the rpms's come under about 1800 and rolling into the throttle resulted in some weird noises.

 

[Silver Tex]

Ha! Well I have had this since new and find myself kind of fond of it. In fact, I intend the accentuate the weird noises by installing a dual disk Valair clutch - the quiet version.