Diagnosing clunks and looseness in front suspension after service...

[verk]

how is that Thuren can call this sway bar "active" ? I just looked up active sway bar which I now understand to be a sway bar that can dynamically change the relative position of the ends via a motor coupling in the middle like this illustration

 

[Ozymandias]

Because it is more "active" then the stock one that is simply a rigid bar with less then 1" flex side to side.
The Thuren allows much more independent wheel travel and therefor a more comfy ride - without sacrificing stability in corners.

By the way, no need to look for BMW, the Powerwagon has an unlocking Swaybar exactly for that reason.

The Links that Thuren uses are from JKS. By far the best links available. I had them since 06 in my GC and used it hard throughout the years and never had a failure from them. Now the same in the RAM for more then 100K and still in perfect shape.

 

[Ozymandias]

Standard Factory Swaybar

Thuren Swaybar

 

[verk]

No reason to be concerned about factory suspension in the rear in combination with trying to soften the front ?

 

[AEdelheit]

My end link bushings certainly shot (have been on truck for about 90k), but there doesn't seem to any movement with sway bar bushings. Trying to understand the interplay of coils/shocks & sway bar... so a sway bar ( anti-roll ) is basically a torsion device and it's spring rate should be determined by that of the coils/shocks ? How much does this matter as I'd rather spend $44 on BD end link bushing kit ( seems pricey for 8 rubber bushings ) rather than $600 on a Thuren replacement sway bar and end link kit.

The spring rate of a sway bar is determined by the metal its made of, O.D. of the bar and arm length. The coils and shocks have nothing to do with the sway bar spring rate.

 

[verk]

I installed the Thuren sway bar which is an improvement, but I still find there to be more noise and a harshness to the front-end that did not exist before I upgraded to the "soft ride" Thuren coils that began my journey to lengthen & soften the front end. The shop that recently changed ball joints believes the front-end is otherwise good and supposedly reset the control arm bushings at new drive height. In this process I also upgraded tires to 33.8" diameter from 31.6" which I continue to run at much lower pressures in an attempt to soften the ride. The only conclusion I can draw is that suspensions are engineered systems and believing that you alter some of that system ( i.e. coils, shocks, sway bar ) without negative consequences is flawed. I was led to believe that softer rate coils and shocks would make a difference in ride harshness, but in hindsight I see very little improvement and strange tradeoffs which I can only attribute to stock control arms and the angles they now operate at with the other modifications (others alluded to this). So, think twice unless you are going all the way. Comments welcome.

Sven

 

[Ozymandias]

The stock springs are quite soft, the swaybar is rock hard makes it uncomfortable.

 

[verk]

With an ever worsening amount of noise and feel through front suspension I returned to service center for them to now acknowledge that control arm bushings are shot along with a little movement in in tie-rods ( all original with 200k ). Let's not get into why they didn't see a problem when I was there a couple months ago. At $250 for all four Dorman arms doesn't make sense to replace bushings to me. Is there any reason to buy a different control arm ? I see that Thuren arms are 0.5" longer and have grease fittings, but they are also $800.

 

[Rowdy Dalton]

Well, financially speaking, you could get three sets of Dorman for the price of one Thuren. The Dormans should last a long while, and if you want to grease them, then you could, by using a grease needle.

 

[Ozymandias]

You won't get a better ride by changing the control arms. No way.

The only way for you is back to stock and sell the Thuren setup to someone that wants it.
Right now you start throwing money on it.

 

[verk]

You won't get a better ride by changing the control arms. No way.

The only way for you is back to stock and sell the Thuren setup to someone that wants it.
Right now you start throwing money on it.

Control arm bushings shot, so I have to replace the arms. Based on what you suggesting I'll get the Dormans. Thanks for replying

 

[Ozymandias]

Are they really - or just some minor crack on the outside of the rubber?
If they are so bad your mechanic should have done that first time.

 

[verk]

Are they really - or just some minor crack on the outside of the rubber?
If they are so bad your mechanic should have done that first time.

I don't know and that's why I employ a mechanic at least for some work that I can't do. I too am disappointed that they didn't see even though I asked them to specifically reset and evaluate having just changed the springs and shocks myself. But it's not for me to judge, just trying to move forward and get my truck to a point where I'm comfortable taking for long trips. There has been an increase in the feeling of road imperfections since this service was done just a couple months ago so something is letting go. I'm not a mechanic, but I can see the acceleration and can imagine it a bushing issue.

 

[AEdelheit]

You won't get a better ride by changing the control arms. No way.

The only way for you is back to stock and sell the Thuren setup to someone that wants it.
Right now you start throwing money on it.

Gotta disagree with you here OZ, I have always felt a difference between the free moving center ball style of the Thuren or Carli arms VS. the vulcanized rubber of the OE / Dorman arms , then if you go to long arms its a massive differnce. With the taller front suspension weather it was from coils or spacers the extra length really helps as well.

 

[verk]

Gotta disagree with you here OZ, I have always felt a difference between the free moving center ball style of the Thuren or Carli arms VS. the vulcanized rubber of the OE / Dorman arms , then if you go to long arms its a massive differnce. With the taller front suspension weather it was from coils or spacers the extra length really helps as well.

Thanks for input. So are you saying you think the additional $570 ( $800 for Thuren regular arms vs $230 Dorman ) is worth it ?

 

[AEdelheit]

Thanks for input. So are you saying you think the additional $570 ( $800 for Thuren regular arms vs $230 Dorman ) is worth it ?

I think a longer arm with Spherical joints is worth it, Metal cloak is a cheaper option but I also believe you get what you pay for. Im a buy once cry once type of person, you should not have any clunks or worse ride with the coils so I do believe something is loose or worn out, the Dorman's I'm sure are fine for stock height, if it was me I would go with a higher quality arm. I can tell you one Thuren arm will weight about the same as all 4 Dorman arms and they are rebuildable so you will never need to replace the arms, may need a rebuild eventually but not any time soon.

 

[Ozymandias]

Just as a note, I had worn out spring insulators that were also not in the right position.
That gave me clunks until I figured that out.

 

[verk]

Just as a note, I had worn out spring insulators that were also not in the right position.
That gave me clunks until I figured that out.

Interesting. I replaced the insulators with new MOPAR ones when I installed the springs although upon inspection the original rubber ones looked like they had life left. If memory serves there was an up and down side to springs, but as for twist position I only tried to keep the drain holes uncovered where the bottom of spring meets the the axle. I'm getting a sharp ( almost harsh ) metal to metal sound when changing direction at slow speeds ( in parking lot ). It's been getting significantly worse as the ride quality worsened so I assumed related to play in bushings which was causing something to stick until it releases causing a metal to metal situation.. I'll go digging deeper if noise still there after replacing worn things.

 

[verk]

I think a longer arm with Spherical joints is worth it, Metal cloak is a cheaper option but I also believe you get what you pay for. Im a buy once cry once type of person, you should not have any clunks or worse ride with the coils so I do believe something is loose or worn out, the Dorman's I'm sure are fine for stock height, if it was me I would go with a higher quality arm. I can tell you one Thuren arm will weight about the same as all 4 Dorman arms and they are rebuildable so you will never need to replace the arms, may need a rebuild eventually but not any time soon.

I've never heard of Metalcloak, but I just had a look. Thanks for sharing. Easier to spend $589 vs $800 and they look the same minus grease fittings. Lots of mechanics these days argue that sealed bearings/bushings as effective as greaseable. I'm still skeptical, but I understand the benefit if you don't maintain. Thanks for sharing feedback about clunks, hopefully second go around at service location does the trick...hard to find people who really want to do it right.

 

[AEdelheit]

I've never heard of Metalcloak, but I just had a look. Thanks for sharing. Easier to spend $589 vs $800 and they look the same minus grease fittings. Lots of mechanics these days argue that sealed bearings/bushings as effective as greaseable. I'm still skeptical, but I understand the benefit if you don't maintain. Thanks for sharing feedback about clunks, hopefully second go around at service location does the trick...hard to find people who really want to do it right.

Happy to share my experience, I will say for hard off road use the Thuren arms are much more durable then Metalcloak but I don't feel you would benefit from the added strength for the cost. Out of curiosity where are you located? I know may shops around the states that I would reccomend depending on location.