Losing prime

[Ozymandias]

@petersonj have you actually seen my answer to your question regarding the fuel heat sink on Page #1?

 

[petersonj]

Yes, I have. That fuel heat sink looks like it would be quite effective for summer time use.

- John

 

[NIsaacs]

The fuel line runs between the pump and the head and it hits, so I am very limited on how much it will move.

Can you bend the line some? I think it is just the inlet fuel feed line. An offset key would help a bunch too. To change the pump gear one tooth is a big job, I would avoid that if at all possible. Not sure if the VP offset key will fit the VE but several are offered for the VP. I would think they would fit.

The way I understand the off set, .009 is one degree. So just using the example picture, if it is offset .090, that would equal 10 degrees.

#ad

 

[Mark P]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 41 Degrees this morning, and I made the slow walk out to the truck. I said a prayer, and then I cycled the pump one time, and it barely made one turn of the crank, until it fired up like it was summertime!!!!!!!! THANKS TO ALL THAT OFFERED ADVICE!!!

NIsaacs.......... Yes, I did bend the fuel line, but with the taper under the intake part of the head, there's just no room to move it. Even if I could move it another 1/16'-1/8", it would be into the throttle lever. I think the offset key sounds like a great idea!! I'll be looking for one. Pulling the pump would be MUCH easier than moving the gear.

 

[Ozymandias]

No chance at all. I used a grease pencil to highlight the timing marks, and set the pump gear on "C", instead of "E", which is a common. The VE pump uses a key on the tapered shaft to line it up. It can only go in the gear one way.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe a difference in the cam in the 24 valve vs the 12 valve as to what timing is required. Most that I’ve talked to went 2 teeth advance. We’ll see if it starts tomorrow morning.

This is your problem, from what we learned the "E" is your setting for Turbo/Intercooler.
You are one tooth off, this one tooth is what you are missing now with the pump hitting the head.

Even you hate it, you have to dive back into and correct that issue the right way and not with a band-aid.

 

[Mark P]

This is your problem, from what we learned the "E" is your setting for Turbo/Intercooler.
You are one tooth off, this one tooth is what you are missing now with the pump hitting the head.

Even you hate it, you have to dive back into and correct that issue the right way and not with a band-aid.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. I advanced the timing on the gear to "C", and then had to advance the pump as far as I could, to get it to start, but you want me to retard the timing now? I think you are going backwards. As for the I/C vs non I/C for the timing of the pump, what is the I/C timing referring to..... having the actual intercooler, or the difference in the pumps? I'm using a non I/C pump, which uses a different KSB. when I unplug the KSB which retards the timing, it wouldn't run, which means it needs more advance to run properly. Am I thinking about this the right way? It definitely won't run if I retard the timing.

 

[NIsaacs]

I just went out and cranked it a few times. It hit, but NOTHING. I cycled the pump 3 times and cranked it. NOTHING. I loosened the pump, and was able to move it less than 1/8" advance. The fuel line runs between the pump and the head and it hits, so I am very limited on how much it will move. I tightened the pump up, and the truck started on the first bump of the starter. Idled like it had been warmed up for an hour. Answer or coincidence????? Find out tomorrow morning. I just can't believe that that small amount of timing could make all the difference. It couldn't be more than 2 degrees.

I just checked my Cummins repair manual for B series engines, one mm of pump movement or .039 equals one degree. So, 1/8" might be plenty. I don't think I can see 1mm Here is a scan of the page. It also shows "C" is the right mark for your application. "E" is for the same engine, only for CARB rules.

 

[Mark P]

I just checked my Cummins repair manual for B series engines, one mm of pump movement or .039 equals one degree. So, 1/8" might be plenty. I don't think I can see 1mm Here is a scan of the page. It also shows "C" is the right mark for your application. "E" is for the same engine, only for CARB rules.

View attachment 139190

Thanks!!! The truck has started every time today with only a bump of the starter, and I’m more than pleased with the performance, to say the least. I’ve increased the fuel, and set the idle at 900 rpm, and with 100 horsepower injectors, this truck does more than I need. I’m hoping to pick up a few MPG by keeping my foot out of the skinny pedal. Lots of knowledge in this group!! I appreciate all the suggestions.

 

[Ozymandias]

Let me see if I understand you correctly. I advanced the timing on the gear to "C", and then had to advance the pump as far as I could, to get it to start, but you want me to retard the timing now? I think you are going backwards. As for the I/C vs non I/C for the timing of the pump, what is the I/C timing referring to..... having the actual intercooler, or the difference in the pumps? I'm using a non I/C pump, which uses a different KSB. when I unplug the KSB which retards the timing, it wouldn't run, which means it needs more advance to run properly. Am I thinking about this the right way? It definitely won't run if I retard the timing.

Na, when you move from C to E you can bring the pump back more upright at the same amount to about the middle of the adjustment range. So you gain room for adjustment whereas now you are at the of the advance area now.
Or with other words , you could tilt the pump more into the advance area then now.

 

[Mark P]

Na, when you move from C to E you can bring the pump back more upright at the same amount to about the middle of the adjustment range. So you gain room for adjustment whereas now you are at the of the advance area now.
Or with other words , you could tilt the pump more into the advance area then now.

It’s as upright as it will go now. There is no middle of the adjustment range. With it as upright as it is now, if I move back to E, it is retarding the timing.

 

[Ozymandias]

I have to check the pictures again of the pump wheel... maybe im wrong, idk.

 

[Ozymandias]

You are right, I had the CE order instead of EC.

 

[Mark P]

You are right, I had the CE order instead of EC.

View attachment 139191

Thanks…. You had me questioning it, but I knew I was heading to more advance.

 

[NIsaacs]

I’m more than pleased with the performance, to say the least. I’ve increased the fuel, and set the idle at 900 rpm, and with 100 horsepower injectors, this truck does more than I need.

I don't recall if you have an auto or standard transmission or what your plans are for the truck. If it is a standard and you plan to tow, I recommend an exhaust brake, best money spent, ever.

Then, since it is a hybrid I am not sure how you are going to get the sweet spot on the timing.

What I did on my '91 might work on your 24V. Reading all about suggestions for advancing the timing for better performance, I tried the 1/8" deal. It didn't work for mine. It was too much and ended up with a detonation knock like a gasser. So, I unhooked the KSB, loosened the nuts on the pump just enough that I could move it with a small bar but not move on it's own. With it at an idle, I backed it off until the knock went away. I have had it there for ever. It will still knock slightly on a cold start with the advance of the KSB but stop as soon as it warms up.

I would also suggest that when you do get the pump set permanent, loosen the injector lines so they can relax to the pumps location.

With the new pump, I installed it on the mark and never messed with it at all, mostly for warranty reasons.