Losing prime

[petersonj]

Even as good as the truck runs once it starts, I'm hesitant to drive it much with the risk of damaging a new VE pump. I think that a new set of injectors with the correct pop pressure may be the best thing.

I think that is a good plan.

Good detailed explanation of how you did what you did.

- John

 

[Ozymandias]

I just watched a youtube Video from a German Guy, he explained the letters.

E is Turbocharged/Intercooled
C is Turbocharged only

The letters on the opposite site are for the 4BT engine.

He did not mention the G & D but if you are interested I could send a comment to his video asking.

 

[Mark P]

I just watched a youtube Video from a German Guy, he explained the letters.

E is Turbocharged/Intercooled
C is Turbocharged only

The letters on the opposite site are for the 4BT engine.

He did not mention the G & D but if you are interested I could send a comment to his video asking.

I appreciate the information. That kinda makes sense, since the information I had said rhe C was for industrial/power plants, which normally don’t have intercoolers. I would be interested in a link to the YouTube video. Not sure how I’ve missed that. I’m burnt out from reading.. THANKS!!

 

[Ozymandias]

Well the guy speaks German though.. I asked him about the letters and he says G&D are for non-Turbocharged six cylinder engines.



That's the Video where he puts the gear case together, the one that follows is how he installs the pump and sets it to the right spot with the dial indicator.



It's a whole series of videos, he rebuilds the whole engine.

Spoiler alert, the engine failed because of a disintegrated oil bypass valve the spread debris through the oil channels, blocking passages.

 

[Mark P]

Thanks!! I'll take a look.

I ordered a set of injectors from the Diesel Speed Shop. I called several places on Friday, and this is the only place that returned my call and said they could definitely set the pop pressure on a new set. He said they will ship out tomorrow. I'm hopeful this makes the old girl get back on the road. I can't wait. I'll keep ya posted!!

 

[Ozymandias]

I was reading a lot about that pump.
It is a very very versatile pump.
There are so many adjustments* that can and must be made at this pump for every certain application, mind blowing. This isn't a one size fits all pump.
Found some good read about that from Bosch** themselves, unfortunately in German, sorry.

* Cold start is just one off them.
** Not about how they are made in Detail, just what the pump is capable of.

Oh well, I give the link anyways, lots of pictures in it and if someone really wants there is always Google translate...

http://www.ckc.dk/pubs/Bosch-VE.pdf

 

[Mark P]

I was reading a lot about that pump.
It is a very very versatile pump.
There are so many adjustments that can and must be made at this pump for every certain application, mind blowing. This isn't a one size fits all pump.
Found some good read about that from Bosch* themselves, unfortunately in German, sorry.

*Not about how they are made in Detail, just what the pump is capable of.

I’ve had these pumps before on 12 valve engines, and they are very reliable, and really very simple. You can run these engines without a single wire on it. The only issue I’ve ever had was with an occasional leak. I have a Denny T fuel pin for this one, but haven’t installed it yet. I did turn the fuel up a little, not excessive, but enough to have decent power. I’m not looking for massive power, just a reliable motor with decent fuel mileage. My last truck with a 12 valve got 20-22 mpg with 3.55 gears. Hoping get the same from this one. With the VP44 pump, I was getting 15 at best.

 

[Ozymandias]

That not what I mean.
I wonder if your seller sold you the right pump tuned for EXACT that application, which I think is quite impossible as there was never a 24V with VE pump available from Cummins.

The VE pump is reliable by any means - but she isn't simple at all. It was the most technological advanced rotary pump ever before the electronically controlled VP44.

 

[Mark P]

Update on the continuing saga of.. "The truck won't start".............. Yesterday I installed a new set of 24 valve injectors from the Diesel Speed Shop, and they were set to VE pop pressure. While I was swapping them out, I chanced the o rings on the connector tubes, and the tubes showed no wear on the tapered tip. I did a little tuning on the pump, after I got the truck started. It took very little bleeding of the lines to get it running. I was pretty hopeful, until this morning. It still won't start. It hits several times, and the white smoke is still rolling. One thing I noticed is, if you keep cranking, it doesn't seem to hit much, but if you let off the key, and crank it again, it seems to hit each time, but doesn't start. The injectors I ordered were 100hp/200 torque injectors. I was really impressed with the truck, once it starts.

SO: New Bosch VE pump, new injectors set to VE pop pressure, new o-rings on the connector tubes. FASS pump at 11 psi. I can't see any leaks anywhere.

Ideas, before I have a bonfire??? This thing has me beat down.

 

[NIsaacs]

It has to be timing or the pump is bad. I know you know what you are doing, but sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. I would advance the pump as much as you can, with the limited clearance. If it helps, then you will know that you are on the right track.

 

[Mark P]

It has to be timing or the pump is bad. I know you know what you are doing, but sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. I would advance the pump as much as you can, with the limited clearance. If it helps, then you will know that you are on the right track.

I'll be trying that this morning, if the rain holds off. Thanks!

 

[Ozymandias]

Have you installed the check valve?

 

[Mark P]

Have you installed the check valve?

I have not. Should it go in the fuel supply line between the FASS and the IP?

 

[Mark P]

Have you installed the check valve?

Check valve will be here on Monday.

As I was reading on different forums this morning, I saw one fairly common issue that is hard to detect, is a leak on the front pump seal on Bosch VE pumps, and some were new pumps. I installed the spring kit on the FASS to reduce the pressure to 11 psi, so as not to blow the front seal out. Going out this morning to advance the pump and see if it helps.

 

[Mark P]

I just went out and cranked it a few times. It hit, but NOTHING. I cycled the pump 3 times and cranked it. NOTHING. I loosened the pump, and was able to move it less than 1/8" advance. The fuel line runs between the pump and the head and it hits, so I am very limited on how much it will move. I tightened the pump up, and the truck started on the first bump of the starter. Idled like it had been warmed up for an hour. Answer or coincidence????? Find out tomorrow morning. I just can't believe that that small amount of timing could make all the difference. It couldn't be more than 2 degrees.

 

[Ozymandias]

I have not. Should it go in the fuel supply line between the FASS and the IP?

Yes

 

[BigPapa]

Answer or coincidence?????

Answer.

You may need to go another tooth and then turn the pump back to get it where you want if you're limited on turning the pump.

 

[Mark P]

Answer.

You may need to go another tooth and then turn the pump back to get it where you want if you're limited on turning the pump.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe a difference in the cam in the 24 valve vs the 12 valve as to what timing is required. Most that I’ve talked to went 2 teeth advance. We’ll see if it starts tomorrow morning.

 

[BigPapa]

It may be a combination of the lower pop pressures AND that extra 1/8" turn of the pump.

 

[Mark P]

It may be a combination of the lower pop pressures AND that extra 1/8" turn of the pump.

It wouldn’t start this morning with ONLY the reduced pop pressure, so you may be right. You were definitely right on rhe pop pressure