ZF Powerline for 2025 RAM HD Diesel

[Diesel85]

not sure how true it is, but a lot of you tube guys saying there are ram inventory for 100s of days, even 2022s on lots. some say over 700 days. i have read that the ram is the vehicle that sits on the lot the longest currently out of all vehicles. thats bad. additionally, dodge etc has lost several big wigs in the past month. many resignations etc. additionally, wild speculation over stellantis going under. cheers comrades!

One of my local dealers has a slew of brand new 2023 3500 Cummins Tradesmans 4x4 for sale still.

They are still in the lot since I bought my truck early last year.

 

[Turbo Terry]

Nothing wrong with a tradesman . I have a regular cab one that I ordered. Fits in the garage when the campers off. Hauls the slide in great. 3500 ho I bought it for the drive train engine and suspension 1 ton . Rides good not all the bells and whistles but everything I need . $61.5 k not $108 k big difference in money

 

[Timd32]

1500's have the '25 option.

The dealers should know the "expected" window for the '25, they are always behind is my opinion.

One idea is if it was the same it might be out already on the site.

 

[AH64ID]

1500's have the '25 option.

The dealers should know the "expected" window for the '25, they are always behind is my opinion.

One idea is if it was the same it might be out already on the site.

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Ram announced the 2025 1500 updates months ago. So far Ram hasn’t announced anything official for the 2025 HD lineup.

 

[Diesel85]

Confirmed by Stellantis that they are only going to offer the High Output in the 2025 RAM Heavy Duty 2500/3500:

https://moparinsiders.com/2025-ram-heavy-duty-to-switch-to-single-cummins-option/

With that being said, unless they throw the AISIN in the 2500, which they could, I have a feeling the ZF Powerline is likely going to be in the 2025.

 

[wyosteve]

Glad to see they will still offer the 6.4 Hemi. I had one in my '19 Power Wagon and we have it in our 2500 currently. Really like the engine with the 8 spd. transmission.

 

[AH64ID]

Confirmed by Stellantis that they are only going to offer the High Output in the 2025 RAM Heavy Duty 2500/3500:

https://moparinsiders.com/2025-ram-heavy-duty-to-switch-to-single-cummins-option/

With that being said, unless they throw the AISIN in the 2500, which they could, I have a feeling the ZF Powerline is likely going to be in the 2025.

From the linked article "Ram plans to simplify its Heavy Duty truck offerings with a single Cummins diesel option, which will be made possible by the upcoming ZF Powerline 8-speed automatic transmission."

 

[Diesel85]

From the linked article "Ram plans to simplify its Heavy Duty truck offerings with a single Cummins diesel option, which will be made possible by the upcoming ZF Powerline 8-speed automatic transmission."

Ahh, I misread it. So it looks like the ZF is actually true. Interesting.

 

[Cummins12V98]

My 15 AISIN just went up in value.

 

[NIsaacs]

My 15 AISIN just went up in value.

Okay, I will bite. Just so I don't insult your '15, lets just debate the '15 HO dually in general v/s say, 19+ through what is rumored on the '25.

How did the '15's (10 years old) just go up in value? Or is this just you and your '15, not the general masses.

I know in the past, you have voiced your cons of the 8spd v/s the 6 spd Aisin. Is that "all" of your basis for value?

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[Diesel85]

I've driven the trucks with the AISIN, and it's just an OK transmission. However a better mousetrap can be built. Hopefully the ZF gives a better stance for what a HO Cummins can output.

I absolutely love the 8 speed ZF in my EcoD. The shifts are extremely smart, especially when towing, and the torque management is all there.

I for one am looking forward to the new ZF and a higher, HO engine.

More power, the better.

 

[bcbender]

FWIW,.. I had a 23' 1500 Laramie with the E torque and Hemi engine last week for a rental truck in Miami.. My first impression of the 8spd is it behaves alot like the 10spd in my van.. it'll go like a bat out of ___ but it takes a bit to figure it out.. seems like its looking for the right gear or simply waiting to see if you're serious about wanting to GO..then it GOES... but drops many gears.. It'll be cruising at 50 in 8th.. then drop to 7th.. then 3rd.. then....... Also mileage around town was less that my 20 HO.. but freeway seemed better.

 

[Cummins12V98]

To quote the great Stan Gozzi (sag2) when asked about the AISIN “They don’t break”.

 

[Diesel85]

FWIW,.. I had a 23' 1500 Laramie with the E torque and Hemi engine last week for a rental truck in Miami.. My first impression of the 8spd is it behaves alot like the 10spd in my van.. it'll go like a bat out of ___ but it takes a bit to figure it out.. seems like its looking for the right gear or simply waiting to see if you're serious about wanting to GO..then it GOES... but drops many gears.. It'll be cruising at 50 in 8th.. then drop to 7th.. then 3rd.. then....... Also mileage around town was less that my 20 HO.. but freeway seemed better.

You should drive a 2020-2023 EcoD with the ZF as it would give a better representation of how the ZF Powerline would likely act with the Cummins. Versus a high revving gasser.

The ZF loves the low torque of the diesel. Unloaded most of the time it will either be in 7th or 8th going up small inclines doing 55+. Doesn't hunt all that often and it's an absolute pleasure to drive.

When towing, it simulates a 6 speed, but I think better.

Hard to explain, you just need to drive a newer diesel 1500 to see what I'm referring to.

 

[Ozymandias]

I've driven the trucks with the AISIN, and it's just an OK transmission. However a better mousetrap can be built. Hopefully the ZF gives a better stance for what a HO Cummins can output.

I absolutely love the 8 speed ZF in my EcoD. The shifts are extremely smart, especially when towing, and the torque management is all there.

I for one am looking forward to the new ZF and a higher, HO engine.

More power, the better.

This one is even better as it can skip gears, preventing unnecessary shifts on the way up or down..
Much more refined from everything I heard. Locked from gear one, locked shifts and so on.

 

[Diesel85]

This one is even better as it can skip gears, preventing unnecessary shifts on the way up or down..
Much more refined from everything I heard. Locked from gear one, locked shifts and so on.

I want it even more... quit talking about it. LOL

This fall/winter, I want to take one out for a good long test drive.

Not going to buy one for a minimum a year to year and a half... and of course, carefully read these forums, and watch for TDR write ups.

Here's TFL's video:

 

[NIsaacs]

I for one am looking forward to the new ZF and a higher, HO engine.

More power, the better.

Agreed, especially if it includes the 2500. Rumors are, it will.

It will also be interesting if there is a max tow and if so, what will it include over a standard dually. If the engine output is the same and they all get the 8spd, what will determine a max tow. In '20, the max tow included a heavier dually, rear axle. I wonder if there will still be two axles, a standard duty and a max tow? I would also guess, that the SRW's will all get the 12"

HP/TQ, what will it be? My guess is, 450/1150. I don't think they will tackle Ford, but 450 will sneak past GM's 445. Then there is still the question of the 1050 tq of the existing 8spd Powerline. Since that includes a 57k gvw, they can probably pencil whip the numbers with pickup truck ratings.

 

[AH64ID]

Agreed, especially if it includes the 2500. Rumors are, it will.

Yeah, a single engine calibration would be a plus and make it available on all PU platforms.

It will also be interesting if there is a max tow and if so, what will it include over a standard dually. If the engine output is the same and they all get the 8spd, what will determine a max tow. In '20, the max tow included a heavier dually, rear axle. I wonder if there will still be two axles, a standard duty and a max tow? I would also guess, that the SRW's will all get the 12"

There has been a lot of confusion on what the Max Tow package is or isn't. It's an options package and doesn't change anything in the running gear, aside from mandating 4.10's.

The Max Tow package includes 30,000-lb fifth-wheel hitch, auto-leveling rear air suspension, Fifth-Wheel/Gooseneck Prep Group, cargo-view camera, trailer brake controller, daytime running lamps and DOT Safety Kit (3500 only; requires 6.7L High Output Cummins® diesel engine with 6-speed AISIN® transmission, 4.10:1
axle ratio, dual rear wheels)

The axle is the same for HO trucks with and without the max tow package, both 3.73 and 4.10. You can order a HO DRW 4.10 without max tow and you have the same ratings as a truck with max tow.

There are still 2 axles for DRW's thou, but it's tied to SO vs HO instead of the max tow package.

The SO DRW's (as well as 2500 & 3500 SRW) use the 11.5" R&P rear axle with 358mm brakes, 3.73 or 4.10.
The HO DRW's use the 12.0" R&P with 365mm brakes, 3.73 or 4.10.
The HO SRW's use the 12.0" R&P with 358mm brakes.

HP/TQ, what will it be? My guess is, 450/1150. I don't think they will tackle Ford, but 450 will sneak past GM's 445. Then there is still the question of the 1050 tq of the existing 8spd Powerline. Since that includes a 57k gvw, they can probably pencil whip the numbers with pickup truck ratings.

I suspect you're pretty close on power estimates.

Even the Ford 10 speed has the same input torque rating as the ZF despite the 6.7 Powerstroke ratings, so I'm going to guess torque management will be heavily used.

 

[slowmover]

(Edited)

TQ Mgmnt a fancy way of saying, momentary?
Because it ain’t general:

2004
0-60 = 8.8-sec
1/4 = 16.8

2024
0-60 = 8.1
1/4 = 16.3

Auto-12 has brought Class 8 to better MPG numbers. Always in the right gear. 2.19 rear versus 2.9-3.3. Maybe A8 will help CTD.

$1.55/gl in 2004 Average
$3.85/gl in 2024

Anything to help with that 250% price rise.

As FE doesn’t appear to have improved — a basic decrease that flatlined — to operate a current CTD over my 2004 15k miles is a 350% fuel cost increase over what it was in 2004 based on my own numbers vs todays FUELLY averages.

FE is the meat on the bone. Class 8 is easily as much as 20-25% better with spec & driver habits modified since ‘04.

A rare, but good, tailwind downhill from Amarillo to Oklahoma City and I’m burning the same or less fuel at 78,760-gross at 70-MPH than the 3500 pulling equipment grossing 31,720-lbs I just went around. Twice as tall at 13’, more than twice as heavy at 19k, and with an engine more than twice the displacement at 15L (Detroit).

I pull my TT at an average 60% less fuel burn than did my father with the same TT at his barely lower speed using big block gassers 40-50/years ago (mines heavier @ 9k vs 6k by TV; TT @ 8k vs 7k; & by gross at 17k vs 13k). But the fuel expense change isn’t that high if diesel is 50-cent higher per gallon today.

50-60/years ago my grandfather pulling a 1k lighter combined rig with the same TT as my father was at 10-MPG w/o pollution controls, high octane gas versus regular and 10.25:1 compression.

A diesel pickup needs to be efficient.
Stays with traffic or faster ain’t it.

Slow off the line would be perfectly fine.
A 12-MPG load would be 14.5-MPG. (20%).

0-55/MPH in under 30-seconds is that adequacy given to near maximum. That’s where power management needs to be applied.

Start studying big truck acceleration rates to enter the big road. Tanker & Reefer as they’re likelier to be near 80k. It’s no big deal once one is used to it. A far cry from the 1980s in getting it going.

If this country was serious about Fuel Economy, this would be par. Your $50k 10-yr fuel expenditure would be cut by nearly $13k. Would a free $1k per year cover most scheduled maintenance? Offset insurance & taxes?

Or will it barely cover the A8 lifetime cost increase?

A8 without significant FE bump is an increase in cost without offsetting benefit.

.

 

[NIsaacs]

HP/TQ, what will it be? My guess is, 450/1150. I don't think they will tackle Ford, but 450 will sneak past GM's 445.

Opps, GM is 470 now, still 975 tq.

DURAMAX® 6.6L TURBO-DIESEL V8

• 470 horsepower
• 975 lb.-ft. torque