Dead new truck, far from home!

[Grumpy8811]

What is the date stamp on the battery?

My 2020 truck has 01/2019 battery in a truck that was built in 12/19. Pretty much sat on a shelf/pallet for 12 months!

I always figured if a battery lasted more than 3 years I was satisfied with it's performance.

 

[Topzide]

You can get more life out of a battery, just need to pay attention to how you use it! I put mine on a smart charger (Viking 4amp Maintainer from HF) whenever I know it won't be driven for a couple of days. Been doing this for the last 4 years, batteries were new in 2019. They are Champion brand from Pep Boys. Keeping my eyes on them as another winter is closing in on us. I know that heat is harder on them, and I don't have that to deal with, but the maintainer seems to have helped!

 

[cricha]

What is the date stamp on the battery?

My 2020 truck has 01/2019 battery in a truck that was built in 12/19. Pretty much sat on a shelf/pallet for 12 months!

Normally I've found the dates on the top of the battery. I cannot find any dates on the batteries the dealer just installed. Where would the dates be stamped? THANKS!!

 

[Diesel85]

Normally I've found the dates on the top of the battery. I cannot find any dates on the batteries the dealer just installed. Where would the dates be stamped? THANKS!!

Typically on the side or the top of the battery for date of manufacture. Sometimes they are cryptic to understand.

 

[cricha]

if it's a sticker, i'm not seeing anything...

 

[Diesel85]

Sometimes they are heat stamped too and depending on where they put the stamping it can be difficult to find/read.

 

[Grumpy8811]

You can get more life out of a battery, just need to pay attention to how you use it! I put mine on a smart charger (Viking 4amp Maintainer from HF) whenever I know it won't be driven for a couple of days. Been doing this for the last 4 years, batteries were new in 2019. They are Champion brand from Pep Boys. Keeping my eyes on them as another winter is closing in on us. I know that heat is harder on them, and I don't have that to deal with, but the maintainer seems to have helped!

I'm live in the heat.. the AGM replacement batteries were installed around Jan 2020, and they are holding up fine with no special attention so they are going on almost five years in the truck now.
I still stand by the 3 year thing.
local National Guard Armory near me keeps solar chargers on all their equipment, which seemed to help them as their trucks sit for months.

 

[Tuesdak]

Im fine with the procedure as every battery that is unnecessarily replaced just for fun is one battery that me as new car buyer i don't have to pay for.

All warranty work is paid for by the cushomer.

Let's see ... the ONLY thing that's stranded me on my 2018 RAM Cummins pickup has been bad batteries. Three Times. Two jump packs are not enough to start the truck.

No, you don't replace batteries in pairs "just for fun". Do you think needing a jump start and another circus to replace batteries is fun? It's a $100-200 battery they wish to not replace as a pair. It's an accepted industry standard to replace batteries in pairs. This is literally NOT doing it right the first time PERIOD.

This is after RAM needlessly needs the pickup for two days to run the extensive charging tests. The parts store tester can tell me in 30 seconds if it's bad. 5 min if they have to pull a cable off a dual battery setup.

I can see where the OEM wants to cut battery cost with innovatory sitting around on dealer lots, stuck in shipping, whatever draining batteries that need a charge every 30 days just from their own self-discharge. Your odds are not good for a new vehicle battery that hasn't been overdischarged damaged to start with.

So you drop in a new battery and the tested good "older used" battery starts to murder the new battery. Esp. if the bad battery damaged it from it's own problems. A old battery will drain the charge off the new battery. Then the new one sulfates for not being fully charged. When the engine is running one is chronically overcharged and the other undercharged. Yeah in a cold climate where "age" isn't accelerated by heat this may be a better gamble. 10 year battery life somewhere else vs. two years or less here because temperature.

After the dealer warranted only one battery... I told my service advisor to replace the other battery and I would pay for it. ( Dealers charge labor to replace a battery where parts stores and battery stores do not. ) They didn't replace it. I fired my service advisor after a conversation with the service manager about not doing what they were told to do: On. My. Dime. Of course after I went over to Batteries Plus and replaced both with Odyssey AGM's (as they were having trouble getting X2's in).

The extreme heat of a summer that didn't cool down overnight cooked the Odyssey pair. Due to the supply chain problems, no AGM's in stock, I had no choice but to throw another battery (the MOPAR warranty replacement battery I was using on a generator) in when one AGM went bad. The other tested good AGM shortly murdered it. After a jump start from a vehicle I got lucky as the store happened to get some batteries in stock they could warranty mine out with.

 

[Turbo Terry]

So next year in the fall (November ) I will replace both my by then. 4 year old 40 k batteries Replacing these batteries in my 2022 3500 looks like it will not just be an easy disconnect 4 terminal connectors and two battery hold down brackets and lift out and lift in. They have put a lot of things in the way as I see it. Anyway it’s not something that I want to have issues with as it seems to be a common problem. So with out starting a battery war I have found you do get what you pay for in battery’s. So what would be my best choices.

 

[Ozymandias]

Let's see ... the ONLY thing that's stranded me on my 2018 RAM Cummins pickup has been bad batteries. Three Times. Two jump packs are not enough to start the truck.

No, you don't replace batteries in pairs "just for fun". Do you think needing a jump start and another circus to replace batteries is fun? It's a $100-200 battery they wish to not replace as a pair. It's an accepted industry standard to replace batteries in pairs. This is literally NOT doing it right the first time PERIOD.

This is after RAM needlessly needs the pickup for two days to run the extensive charging tests. The parts store tester can tell me in 30 seconds if it's bad. 5 min if they have to pull a cable off a dual battery setup.

I can see where the OEM wants to cut battery cost with innovatory sitting around on dealer lots, stuck in shipping, whatever draining batteries that need a charge every 30 days just from their own self-discharge. Your odds are not good for a new vehicle battery that hasn't been overdischarged damaged to start with.

So you drop in a new battery and the tested good "older used" battery starts to murder the new battery. Esp. if the bad battery damaged it from it's own problems. A old battery will drain the charge off the new battery. Then the new one sulfates for not being fully charged. When the engine is running one is chronically overcharged and the other undercharged. Yeah in a cold climate where "age" isn't accelerated by heat this may be a better gamble. 10 year battery life somewhere else vs. two years or less here because temperature.

After the dealer warranted only one battery... I told my service advisor to replace the other battery and I would pay for it. ( Dealers charge labor to replace a battery where parts stores and battery stores do not. ) They didn't replace it. I fired my service advisor after a conversation with the service manager about not doing what they were told to do: On. My. Dime. Of course after I went over to Batteries Plus and replaced both with Odyssey AGM's (as they were having trouble getting X2's in).

The extreme heat of a summer that didn't cool down overnight cooked the Odyssey pair. Due to the supply chain problems, no AGM's in stock, I had no choice but to throw another battery (the MOPAR warranty replacement battery I was using on a generator) in when one AGM went bad. The other tested good AGM shortly murdered it. After a jump start from a vehicle I got lucky as the store happened to get some batteries in stock they could warranty mine out with.

I did not mean "one", I meant replace battery's in general for no reason.
That they should be replaced as a pair if one of them is proven bad is common sense to me too.

 

[Grumpy8811]

Let's see ... the ONLY thing that's stranded me on my 2018 RAM Cummins pickup has been bad batteries. Three Times. Two jump packs are not enough to start the truck.

No, you don't replace batteries in pairs "just for fun". Do you think needing a jump start and another circus to replace batteries is fun? It's a $100-200 battery they wish to not replace as a pair. It's an accepted industry standard to replace batteries in pairs. This is literally NOT doing it right the first time PERIOD.

ONE OF THE MANY RESPONSIBILITIES I INHERITED AT MY OLD JOB WAS SOMEHOW I ENDED UP BEING THE BATTERY GUY. I DEAL WITH THE VENDORS, THE MECHANICS AT THE JOB AND THE INBETWEEN BETWEEN MANAGEMENT AND WHOEVER. OUR VEHICLES HAD 4 GROUP 31 BATTERIES, MY EMPLOYER INSISTED ON AONE YEAR WARRANTY,AND SINCE WE HAD 700+ VEHICLES WITH HUGE PARASITIC LOADS WE WENT THRU BATTERIES LIKE CRAZY. WHAT YOU TERM IS AN INDUSTRY STANDARD IS REALLY MORE OF A INDUSTRY SUGGESTION.. IT DOESN'T HELP YOU, BUT TO PROPERLY WARRANTY A BATTERY THEY HAVE TO CHARGE AND TEST IT. I DEALT WITH THIS END OF THE SUPPLY CHAIN MYSELF AND AT SOME POINT I BEGAN TO TERM THE BATTERY WARRANTY PROGRAM "THE BATTERY ROTATION PROGRAM" AS WHAT WE THOUGHT WERE DEAD WOULD GET SENT TO THE MANUFACTURER WHO WOULD CHARGE THEM AND TEST THEM AND SEND HALF OF THEM BACK AS BEING "OK".

So you drop in a new battery and the tested good "older used" battery starts to murder the new battery.

REALISTICALLY, FROM A ELECTRICAL STANDPOINT, ONE BATTERY DOESN'T MURDER THE OTHER BATTERY UNLESS SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE ONE OF THEM.. ELECTRICITY FOLLOWS THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE AND TRAVELS FROM A HIGHER VOLTAGE POINT TO A LOWER VOLTAGE POINT, SO ONE GOOD USED BATTERY THAT TESTS OK AND HOLDS 12.6 VOLTS STATIC CHARGE WON'T DRAIN ELECTRICITY FROM A NEWER BATTERY THAT IS ALSO 12.6 VOLTS. A AUTO BATTERY IS 6 CELLS ARRANGED IN SERIES AND WHEN FULLY CHARGED EACH CELL IS 2.1 VDC,HENCE A LEAD ACID BATTERY WITH 6 GOOD CELLS IS 12.6 VOLTS. IF IT HAS A BAD CELL IT WILL BE 10.1 VDC WHEN FULLY CHARGED, BUT THIS CAN'T BE DETERMINED ACCURATELY WITHOUT A CHARGE AND A LOAD TEST.

After the dealer warranted only one battery... I told my service advisor to replace the other battery and I would pay for it. ( Dealers charge labor to replace a battery where parts stores and battery stores do not. ) They didn't replace it. I fired my service advisor after a conversation with the service manager about not doing what they were told to do: On. My. Dime. Of course after I went over to Batteries Plus and replaced both with Odyssey AGM's (as they were having trouble getting X2's in).

THIS I DON'T UNDERSTAND ON THE DEALER'S PART, WHY WOULD THE DEALER NOT REPLACE YOUR BATTERY IF YOU WANTED TO PAY FOR IT?.
THEY MUST BE IDIOTS, CUSTOMER PAY IS GOOD MONEY AND I CAN'TIMAGINE HOW MUCH A PERSON WOULD PAY FOR A BATTERY AND INSTALLATION AT THE MOPAR DEALER .




This is after RAM needlessly needs the pickup for two days to run the extensive charging tests. The parts store tester can tell me in 30 seconds if it's bad. 5 min if they have to pull a cable off a dual battery setup.

NO ONE CAN PROPERLY TEST A BATTERY UNLESS AN ATTEMPT TO CHARGE IT HAS OCCURED FIRST . THAT IS ALWAYS IN THE BATTERY TESTING LITERATURE. THE DEALER MAY ACTUALLY USE A CARBON PILE FOR BATTERY TESTING,WHICH IS A FAR BETTER METHOD OF TESTING A BATTERY THAN THE ELECTRONIC TESTER THE AUTO PARTS USES. BACK IN THE DAY OF DELCO FREEDOM BATTERY'S, I ATTENDED A OEM CLASS FROM DELCO, AND THE REP INSISTED NOT TO GIVE UP ON A BATTERY SIMPLY BECAUSE IT APPEARED DISCHARGED..I FOUND OUT OVER TIME THAT WAS ACCURATE, SOME BATTERIES THAT ARE SEVERELY DISCHARGED CAN TAKE SEVERAL DAYS OF CHARGING BEFORE THEY WILL ACTUALLY ACCEPT THE CHARGE. ELECTRICALLY, THE MORE DISCHARGED AN AUTO BATTERY IS, THE MORE RESISTANT IT IS TO CHARGING...



So you drop in a new battery and the tested good "older used" battery starts to murder the new battery.

ONLY IF SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE USED BATTERY. ITS EITHER 12.6 VDC WHEN FULLY CHARGED OR IT IS NOT.. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE BATTERY'S CAPACITY IS LOWER THAN ABRAND NEW BATTERY, IN RELATION TO COLD CRANKING AMPS, IT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN ELECTRICAL POTENTIAL AND NOT ITS AMP HOUR RATING OR CCA THAT DETERMINES WHETHER CURRENT WILL FLOW BETWEEN ONE BATTERY AND THE OTHER.

AT SOME POINT I WOULD THINK IF YOU WENT THRU 3 SETS OF BATTERY'S IN 6 YEARS, EITHER YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG OR THERE IS AN ELECTRIC PROBLEM IN THE TRUCK THAT ENDS UP WITH DISCHARGED BATTERIES,WHICH IS SYMPTOM, NOT THE CAUSE.HOPE THIS HELPS

.

 

[BigPapa]

Battery Testing

I'm in this situation, too. 650 school buses, 150 of them sitting 90% of the time. When the batteries are dead, it's quicker and easier to replace them all. We have a LOT of turnover. We average 10-12 pallets (54 Group 31's per pallet) a year.

Proper battery testing can't be done in a day, much less in 30 seconds. When I was hired, my main responsibility was to test and charge the batteries. First step was testing Specific Gravity, then the Carbon Pile Load Tester. Then it got charged over night, sit over night, then load tested again. If it passed that test, we put it back in the circulation. We finally worked out a deal with our distributer that they pick up all our "cores", anything less than a year old they test and charge. If it's good, they charge us $12 and send it back. If it tests bad, they replace it under warranty.

We have (20) '17-'19 Ram diesels in our White Fleet. We have found the factory batteries didn't last more than a couple years, and the replacements may get three years.

 

[Turbo Terry]

That’s why I’m replacing mine next year. Thanks for that info. And I dont think I want to look for the cheapest batteries that I can find . I want something a bit better so maybe they will last a while . I think sometimes you get better quality if you pay a bit more .

 

[cricha]

Getting some good info from this thread.
When I've had to replace the original batts I've had really good luck with Interstate Batts. I've used the premium line of batteries.
Something of a head scratcher - Yesterday I unhooked both batteries and let the truck sit overnight so I could measure the resting charge voltage separately. When I went to hook up the batts, I was connecting the passenger side neg cable, (the driver side batt still disconnected) and the horn started to honk like you pushed the panic button on the fob, wouldn't shut off even when pushing the button on the fob. What did I do wrong?
Both batts measured 12.6v. They were just installed recently by the dealer.

 

[Ozymandias]

That’s why I’m replacing mine next year. Thanks for that info. And I dont think I want to look for the cheapest batteries that I can find . I want something a bit better so maybe they will last a while . I think sometimes you get better quality if you pay a bit more .

I truly wouldn't change them just because of age, if they work they work.
My Durango is 12 years old and still with the factory installed battery and it was load tested last week and checks out with 75% good.

 

[endoscott]

I was trying to figure out the science on recycled vs virgin lead, actual scientific journals like "Joule". All they want to discuss is lithium ion batteries, I can't find anything definitive for lead acid batteries but it's the sales pitch from the local battery only store (who I like and have bought a lot of batteries from), but I am skeptical there is much if any difference in performance between the 2 especially with the price being more than double for a Northstar battery. Not sure if my newer AGMs in tractors and lawn equipment are going to last longer either, have not had them in service long enough, but will see. I do keep everything on Noco "smart maintainers" in the off season. It was interesting to note that the recycled lead is 99% pure, but maybe you can find virgin lead that is 99.9999% pure and it could be "significant" in terms of even a very small % of impurities can affect performance. Anyway, just another rabbit hole....

 

[Grumpy8811]

I was trying to figure out the science on recycled vs virgin lead, actual scientific journals like "Joule". All they want to discuss is lithium ion batteries, I can't find anything definitive for lead acid batteries but it's the sales pitch from the local battery only store (who I like and have bought a lot of batteries from), but I am skeptical there is much if any difference in performance between the 2 especially with the price being more than double for a Northstar battery. Not sure if my newer AGMs in tractors and lawn equipment are going to last longer either, have not had them in service long enough, but will see. I do keep everything on Noco "smart maintainers" in the off season. It was interesting to note that the recycled lead is 99% pure, but maybe you can find virgin lead that is 99.9999% pure and it could be "significant" in terms of even a very small % of impurities can affect performance. Anyway, just another rabbit hole....

in general AGM's usually hold up longer. Like you said, it's just another trip down the rabbit hole when you start overanalyzing the situation.. I'm one to drive the vehicle until I start to notice its seems like it is cranking slower than it used to, then its time to start thinking about new batteries.I might wait until I am sure, but the one thing I am not waiting for is getting a jump start in a parking lot.

 

[Tuesdak]

REALISTICALLY, FROM A ELECTRICAL STANDPOINT, ONE BATTERY DOESN'T MURDER THE OTHER BATTERY UNLESS SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE ONE OF THEM.. ELECTRICITY FOLLOWS THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE AND TRAVELS FROM A HIGHER VOLTAGE POINT TO A LOWER VOLTAGE POINT, SO ONE GOOD USED BATTERY THAT TESTS OK AND HOLDS 12.6 VOLTS STATIC CHARGE WON'T DRAIN ELECTRICITY FROM A NEWER BATTERY THAT IS ALSO 12.6 VOLTS.

THIS I DON'T UNDERSTAND ON THE DEALER'S PART, WHY WOULD THE DEALER NOT REPLACE YOUR BATTERY IF YOU WANTED TO PAY FOR IT?.
THEY MUST BE IDIOTS, CUSTOMER PAY IS GOOD MONEY AND I CAN'TIMAGINE HOW MUCH A PERSON WOULD PAY FOR A BATTERY AND INSTALLATION AT THE MOPAR DEALER .

AT SOME POINT I WOULD THINK IF YOU WENT THRU 3 SETS OF BATTERY'S IN 6 YEARS

The question is "when" does the battery hold 12.6 volts. IMO this is part of the reason the tests at the dealer take so long. A battery holds a surface charge: after you shut the engine off you are reading 13+ volts on a battery for awhile. 24 hours later with nothing connected is when you can take a true voltage reading. A cell that's loosing voltage in a bad battery will start to discharge the good battery. We see many that swell up the battery cases cracking and buckling the internal plates here.

The Service Manager agreed with (you and) me. The advisor didn't last much longer at the dealership. I do have a decent advisor now.

I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the extreme short battery life here being situation normal. 2 years in our extreme heat (Phoenix, AZ area) is NORMAL battery life. If you even get 2 full years out of them. Every 10F over 70F the battery is at it's service life is cut in half. When it's 117F+ here and doesn't cool off much overnight the average battery temp is and stays high. A/C almost always running raises the underhood temps. If I wanted longer battery life I would move the batteries to a cooler location like under or in the bed. We are currently setting heat records daily in an extended summer. I predict many people out west will experience battery failure, shorter than their usual battery life, when the cold sets in from this and last years above average summer heat.

There was a battery article I posted more on here and specific to AGM's lasting longer vs. other benefits. In summery you don't buy an AGM because it lasts longer, but, for other reasons: (Longer AGM life, yes it's possible, say on a air cooled single cylinder diesel light plant where vibration is extreme.)

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/top-10-from-2023-part-vii-starting-batteries.275127/

 

[Grumpy8811]

The question is "when" does the battery hold 12.6 volts. IMO this is part of the reason the tests at the dealer take so long. A battery holds a surface charge: after you shut the engine off you are reading 13+ volts on a battery for awhile.

you can remove the surface charge simply by turning on the headlites or another electrical load for a few minutes. you dont have to wait a day for the surface charge to dissipate.. also worth saying a battery will hold 12.6vdc for awhile, but all batteries self discharge over time, faster in hi temps.. I believe the battery gurus say a battery will self discharge about 20% in one month in a warm to hot environment... self discharge rate is lower in cool or cold conditions.. so while a battery loses power the colder the battery is, it also holds a charge longer. so for storage its better to keep it in a cool place, but for electrical effictiveness it works better at higher temps. Getting old enough now to forget some of this stuff, but I seem to remember in the old days batteries used in a really hot climate, they used a slightly stouter electrolyte, which had a specific gravity a bit higher than what is standard nowadays.


I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the extreme short battery life here being situation normal. 2 years in our extreme heat (Phoenix, AZ area) is NORMAL battery life.

yeah, I'm in FLA, batteries don't last as long as they do up north.
I tend to think it isn't the ambient temps so much as the underhood temps in a hot environment that lead to the early demise of the battery .
Do you still have the battery insulating blankets around your batteries?