Confederate History (long)

[Texas Diesel]

Reb, ever heard this: "Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only annoys the pig and frustrates you"



There are some here (this thread) that are devoid of intelligence or independant thought and into gimmick only.



Save your breath bro! We know , others only know what they are told.



KRS: Sorry man I know I'm posting right behind you but my post does NOT reflect on you at all.

 

[krs]

tejas:

"Sorry man I know I'm posting right behind you but my post does NOT reflect on you at all"



You're right. I didn't even catch a whiff

 

[Rebel_Horseman]

Actually I do vote on national ballots, to try to elect pro-Southern candidates (typically Republicans). I try to keep liberal knot heads out of office becasue they want to erase all visible and non-visible remnants of the CSA.



Sled, what mis-information am I spewing? Weyerhauser is not a Southern company... it's in Washington. Granted it's not a "Yankee" company, but it sure isn't headquartered down here. I'd like to know what mis-information and propaganda you claim that I'm spreading.



Tajeas... I feel like I've been talking to a pig repeatedly sometimes, but I can't quit. If I quit then they win, but if I keep trying to spread informaion, as mcoleman is doing an excellent job of, then possibly some of these pigs may speak a word in reply. Course it might be "FO" coming out of their mouth too.

 

[jponder]

I really wish I had as much knowledge as some posters on here about the history.



Dont worry about Sled any one who thinks the southern Pinus Palustris forest were of no value, and people wanted Oak well they dont have a clue.

 

[JPope]

"Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only annoys the pig and frustrates you"



Wasn't that Augustus McCrae in Lonesome Dove?



The version I heard in my years in Louisiania was:

"Don't get in a mudslinging contest with a pig, you are both going to get dirty, and the pig will enjoy it!!!!"



But same message is being said!!

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Rebel_Horseman

After posting my first post I got to thinking more and more about the subject, and a quote from Gen'l Lee came to mind that fits here.



In August, 1870many ex-Confederates held a meeting and the Union Gen'l William S Rosecrans was there and questioned Lee. Former Confederate Governor of Texas, Fletcher S. Stockdale, had this to say about Union control, ... .

RH please let me know the source of this quote.



Houston was Gov of Texas when he signed succestion into effect for Texas VERY relectently. Then Edward Clark became gov when Houston refused to take the oath of office to the Confederate government. Then came Francis R. Lubbock, who was first elected as a govenor of Texas in the CSA. After him was Pendleton Murrah, who "went down with the ship" of the CSA.



Infact, Stockdale was never a Govenor of Texas. Flechter Stockdale was a member of the Texas House of Representives. He was a delegate to the national Democratic convention in Charleston in 1860, where he was a member of the committee on resolutions at the secession meeting.



HERE is a list of Texas Govenors since we joined the Union, and there is no one by that name.



Not taking sides, just finding out about my states' history,

Andrew

 

[ndurbin]

I still don't understand why everybody says Linclon and Grant owned slaves. Their wives and their wive's families were the ones who owned slaves. Grant owned one slave from 1858 to 1859, the slave was freed on March 29th of 1859. Well before when you claim he freed his slaves.



And also calling Grant a drunkard goes a bit far. From 1852 to 1854 he drank fairly heavily from the seperation from his wife and kids. After this he drank rarely and never when on campaigns during the war. When he did drink it wasn't in large amounts and when no military actions were going on.



US Grant website

 

[Texas Diesel]

"Any people any where, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing governement and form a new one that suits them better... Any portion of such a people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of the terrotory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement"



Abraham Lincoln, prior to the War between the Sates, Sandburg, Vol. I, p. 367.



Sounds like he encouraged the South to seceed.



Lincoln himself stated Negros were the "inferior Race" and was opposed to giving Negros civil rights. The Negros didnt have civil rights after the North "liberated" them and didnt until this century.

Sandburg, Vol 2, p. 159 S. E.



Little known facts,



75% of the South didnt own slaves.

Negros, Indians, and Mexicans all fought for the Confederate Army.

The Confederate Army was almost entirely volunteer.

Lincoln won the presidency with 39% of the popular vote (!)

The underground railroad ran all the way to Canada, why didnt it stop in the "Northern" States.

It was not a "Civil War", it was a war between the States. A civil war is two groups fighting for control of the whole , in this war, the Southern States were fighting for control of themselves NOT for control of the Country.



More: http://www.noontidepress.com/catalog/0991.html

 

[Elite1]

MColeman, You say that, "The Confederate government had assumed control of numerous U. S. government "Federal" forts, arsenals and mints within the Confederate states. "



If you ask me that is what started the war... . what was the Union supposed to do just look the other way when the Rebels take their weapons and money? Come on Northern Agression? That sounds like Southern Agression!



But I must admit, I do see the Confederate states points on many of these issues... . this is a very interesting thread.

 

[Texas Diesel]

A little more about 'Honest Abe'.



"Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus throughout the nation. He assumed the power to close newspapers and in fact closed hundreds of them in the North which dared to criticize his policies [ the war with the Southern States ]. He arrested elected officials, including former members of congress, who opposed him".



Bradford, pp 149-150; Masters pp. 422-23. The mayor of Washington, D. C. , Congressman Vallandigham of Ohio and a large portion of the Maryland legislature were jailed.



Hebeas corpus: "(hā´bēes kôr´pes) [Lat. ,=you should have the body], writ directed by a judge to some person who is detaining another, commanding him to bring the body of the person in his custody at a specified time to a specified place for a specified purpose. The writ's sole function is to release an individual from unlawful imprisonment; through this use it has come to be regarded as the great writ of liberty .



After the War was won, a black person could be jailed (actually chain ganged by the Government and rented out for labor) on the suspicion that he was going to commit a crime. Yep, Abe sure liberated them

 

[mcoleman]

(who had been the Confederate Lt. Governor of Texas):

This was Stockdales position during the succession period. The Northern states officially recogonized the southern states as a separate nation during the conflict. Therefore any fort within those boundries would no longer be their property. I don't recall us having any forts in Tokyo or in Berlin during WWII either.

 

[Rebel_Horseman]

The quote came from a very good book called "The South Was Right!" by James Ronald and Walter Donald Kennedy. It appears on pages 42-43 of that book. As mcoleman stated, Stockdale was apparently the governor under the Confederate government during the secession times.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by mcoleman

(who had been the Confederate Lt. Governor of Texas):

This was Stockdales position during the succession period. The Northern states officially recogonized the southern states as a separate nation during the conflict. Therefore any fort within those boundries would no longer be their property. I don't recall us having any forts in Tokyo or in Berlin during WWII either.

Thanks mcoleman, and RH. John M. Crockett was Lt. Govenor while Lubbock was Govenor(here in Texas, Lt. Govoner is like Vice-President), Seems once Murrah got sick, Stockdale went from LT. Govenor to acting Govoner without ever being elected, and was only there for one month.

In an address to the people on January 14, 1865, (Govenor) Murrah urged Texans to put aside personal ambitions and make sacrifices in defense of their liberty. Even after Lee's surrender, (Govenor) Murrah continued to urge resistance. When it was obvious that Union forces would occupy the state, he vacated his office, leaving Lieutenant Governor Fletcher Stockdale in charge(May-June 1865), and joined other Confederate leaders fleeing to Mexico. The long trip was too much for Murrah, who continued to suffer from tuberculosis. He was confined to bed upon reaching Monterrey and died on August 4, 1865.

Intresting because we just covered this topic last Tuesday in my Texas History class and there was NO mention of Stockdale, which is why your quote caught my attention.



Lesson learned,

Andrew

 

[ndurbin]

Just because Linclon said those things about slavery doesn't mean he owned them. Allowing it and owning them are two different things.



You guys claim most of the people are brain washed. I think many of you have been brain washed TO SOME EXTENT. If enough people say Linclon owned slaves, it must be true. Or in Grant's case if enough people say he's a drunk, he must be a drunk. THERES PLENTY OF THIS ON BOTH SIDES, so you don't need to spend the time explaining the North's brain washing people to me AGAIN.

 

[Texas Diesel]

click the "unsubscribe from this thread" link and you wont have to have it explained to you again.



I'm just pointing out the historical facts regarding (dis)honest Abe.

The is plenty of evidence Abe owned slaves ( called house workers & servants ). People need to hear the other side of the issue. There has never been a bigger hypocrite than Abe IMO. We all write checks in his honor on April 15th. No president has dont more damage to our civil rights except the present King IMO.

 

[ndurbin]

where's the evidence? I'd be interested in seeing that.



I guess that didn't really come across as I intended. I get tired of the typical response you guys use. I can ask a question about something specfic and it gets anwsered with the same thing time after time. I KNOW you think Abe is a commie, hypocrite, or whatever you want to call him. I just get tired of it being said everytime something is said about Linclon when it's not relavent.



Now that being said, I'm not attempting to defend what he did, I just KNOW what YOU think and say about him. Why does it need to be repeated time and time again? Are you trying to brain wash me and everybody else? That'd be kind of ironic.



You guys would get pretty ****** if everytime I was asked a question or gave a response I sputter out something about Lee's or Davis's name when it wasn't even relavent to the question that was asked.

 

[Texas Diesel]

I posted several quotes and a link to a book loaded with references to Abe. It's there for the reading but you have to go dig out the info, just like I did. I think my other posts re: Abe should be enough reading for awhile, you could always spring for the $3. 50 book and have it for your reference. I cant do the work for you, you have to read & search and decide what sounds best for you. Buy the book, you will find it interesting, everything the author quotes has foot notes so it can be verified.

 

[mcoleman]

The book ( The Real Abe Lincoln ) is a very interesting read. Some other reading that cannot be discounted by non-believers as something the Southern faction wrote is The Slave Narratives written in the 1930s with interviews with actual people that were once slaves. And the Official Record: War of the Rebellion. I believe the first copyright was in the 1880s on the War of the Rebellion and it was written by the Gov. These books were written by the government at the time but you won't see either one of them being taught in the publik skool system. They are not politically correct enough. Fact is they are correct and the truth as are many other books out there that aren't politically correct enough for the Government to want in their skool system. I own lots of them in my own library.

 

[jponder]

To deal with the differnces of opinion. I vote we start an annual TDR event. It can be called TDR SOBS (Sons of Boths sides) and we can have speakers and food at at the end we can have a big reactment or maybe better yet use live ammo and just have an "actment"



You guys know some stuff. all I ever did in the Children of Confederacy was try and get the other kids to drink!

 

[mcoleman]

Live ammo and a range. That's fun right there. I don't care who you are. LOL Specially if someone will bring a cannon or two along. The NAACP would love that SOBS title. LOL