I just found another interesting thing or two. In 1857 at the Lecompton Constitutional Convention, pro-slavery leaders tried to pass a consitution to get Kansas accepted as a state. Even tho it was never passed at the national level, it had protected slavery in Kansas no matter how the people of Kansas voted. Free-state leaders refused to take part in the convention as they believed it was an illegal gov't.
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Confederate History (long)
- Thread starter Rebel_Horseman
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And your facts are in comparison to what. These maybe:For a look into the mind of Union General William Tecumseh Sherman, consider a letter he wrote his wife on July 31, 1862. In explaining the strategy he meant to employ against the Southern people (lately his fellow citizens and neighbors), he told her, “extermination, not of soldiers alone… but the people”, was his goal. Long before the wanton burning of Atlanta, Georgia and Columbia, South Carolina, he ordered his men to burn Randolph, Tennessee, along with the towns of Meridian, Jackson, and Vicksburg, Mississippi. In a wire he sent to General Grant in the spring of 1863, Sherman happily reported, “Meridian no longer exists”. Mr. Will opens his column with a quote by Sherman on the eve of his infamous March To the Sea in 1864 in which he declares “we must kill 300,000”. Still another quote which Will chose not to use, but which helps clarify Sherman’s intentions, glorified by Mr. Will, is “that the present class of men who rule the South must be killed outright”.
In a recent article by Joseph Stromberg titled “Strategies of Annihilation: Total War in US History”, Stromberg takes note of the historical record of Sherman’s depredations in the South and asks a question totally ignored in history classes across the country. Whatever happened to the 50,000 missing Southern civilians that were never heard from again as a result of Lincoln’s determination to take the war to noncombatants? Historian John Bigelow, in 1915 described the war as practiced by the North as “depredation and spoliation”. Space does not allow for a recitation of the atrocities that history records of Sherman’s crimes against the Southern people, but one instance may shed some much needed light on its universal application to all Southerners. These kinds of facts have been too long closeted in the dark shadows of Yankee self-righteousness.
In Francis W. Springers 1990 book, “War For What”, he cites instances that suggest the real fate of those 50,000 civilians who disappeared along Sherman’s line of march and as the result of Lincoln’s “compassionate” war policy. “A raiding party from Sherman’s army on its way north came to the home of Robert Hemphill, a wealthy South Carolina planter. In the absence of all white men, they were met by a trusted old Negro, Burrell Hemphill. When the faithful slave refused to reveal the hiding place of the family valuables, the raiders dragged him at the end of a rope into the forest, hanged him and riddled his body with bullets. His 12-year-old grandson witnessed the whole proceedings. A granite marker now stands 3 miles northeast of Blackstock, South Carolina. It is engraved: In memory of Burrell Hemphill, killed by Union soldiers February 1865. Although a slave he gave his life rather than betray a trust. ”
In a recent article by Joseph Stromberg titled “Strategies of Annihilation: Total War in US History”, Stromberg takes note of the historical record of Sherman’s depredations in the South and asks a question totally ignored in history classes across the country. Whatever happened to the 50,000 missing Southern civilians that were never heard from again as a result of Lincoln’s determination to take the war to noncombatants? Historian John Bigelow, in 1915 described the war as practiced by the North as “depredation and spoliation”. Space does not allow for a recitation of the atrocities that history records of Sherman’s crimes against the Southern people, but one instance may shed some much needed light on its universal application to all Southerners. These kinds of facts have been too long closeted in the dark shadows of Yankee self-righteousness.
In Francis W. Springers 1990 book, “War For What”, he cites instances that suggest the real fate of those 50,000 civilians who disappeared along Sherman’s line of march and as the result of Lincoln’s “compassionate” war policy. “A raiding party from Sherman’s army on its way north came to the home of Robert Hemphill, a wealthy South Carolina planter. In the absence of all white men, they were met by a trusted old Negro, Burrell Hemphill. When the faithful slave refused to reveal the hiding place of the family valuables, the raiders dragged him at the end of a rope into the forest, hanged him and riddled his body with bullets. His 12-year-old grandson witnessed the whole proceedings. A granite marker now stands 3 miles northeast of Blackstock, South Carolina. It is engraved: In memory of Burrell Hemphill, killed by Union soldiers February 1865. Although a slave he gave his life rather than betray a trust. ”
Quantrill's raid on Kansas was in retaliation for the Redlegs attack on Missouri civilians along the border. The Redlegs were encouraged by the Federal Army to destroy and burn anything in the state of Missouri. They also murdered women and children and burnt their homes. Quantrill's mission was to seek revenge for the innocent civilians of Missouri by using the same tactics as his enemy.
"Total War"
The nature of the war that the Union initiated against the citizens of Missouri and elsewhere in the South has been termed, "total war", where civilians became the targets as well as the soldiers in the Confederate Army. These civilians not only included men but also women and children. This policy of total war was put into practice, ironically, by a St. Louisan named William T. Sherman, who became the North's most notorious general. Gen. Sherman ruthlessly declared, "The government of the U. S. has any and all rights which they choose to enforce in war--to take their lives, their homes, their lands, their everything... war is simply unrestrained by Constitution... To the persistent secessionist, why, death is mercy, and the quicker he or she is disposed of the better... " (Maj. Gen. W. T. Sherman, 31 Jan 1864). This war on citizens was not simply restrained to be applied against men and women but also children. Gen. Sherman in a (21 June 1864) letter to Lincoln's Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, wrote, "There is a class of people men, women, and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order. " A reply from the Lincoln administration (Stanton), reads, "Your letter of the 21st of June has just reached me and meets my approval. " While the war on civilians started much earlier than 1864, the above is simply proof that the war on children was part of that scheme also.
In Missouri, arresting and inprisoning civilians started almost immediately with the start of the war. Simply for expressing sympathy for the South or for that matter being an vocal anti-war democrat would land someone in prison. Parents who sent their sons in the Confederate Army "care boxes" of cookies, warm socks/gloves, if found were arrested for "care and comfort of the enemy". Out in western Missouri, seventeen young ladies who were family of Quantrill's men were arrested. On Aug 14, 1863 the old building in Kansas City, used as their prison collapsed crushing four , badly hurting many others. This was a building unfit for human habitation. Even a Union doctor had urged that the prisoners be taken to a more safe location. It was later found that supports for this structure were undermined causing the deaths of five, and the severe injury of many others. Among the dead were the oldest sister of Bill Anderson; a sister and sister-in-law of John McCorkle; and a cousin of Cole Younger. Among the seriously hurt was Anderson's youngest sister, ten year old Mary, who would be crippled for life. Crowds gathered around the ruins as the dead and wounded were carried off. Soldiers fixed bayonets as shouts of "Murder!" intensified. This event is was what ignited William Anderson to be forever known as, "Bloody Bill" Anderson, as he took revenge for the family loss he received at the hands of the Federals. This also was the powder keg that sent Quantrill's men on a "suicidal raid" on Lawrence, deep in Yankee territory.
While Gen. Sherman perfected "total war" on civilians, but his brother-in-law, Gen. Thomas Ewing put it into practice in Missouri, by issuing Order Number 11 in retaliation for Quantrill's Lawrence raid [which left all men of the town dead, except for Jayhawk leader, Jim Lane, who was either hiding in a corn crib or outhouse pit, according to which source one believes. True to Quantrill's oath, the women and children of Lawrence were not physically harmed in any way]. This has been called by one historian as "the harshest act of the U. S. government against its own people in American history". The order ruined thousands of lives in Missouri for people living in an area 85 miles long by 50 miles wide. This area covered the counties of Jackson, Vernon, Cass, and Bates. Over 20,000 families were affected by this. Everyone in this area were required to vacate within 15 days and move to "posts" (concentration camps) garrisoned by Union soldiers. Anything that could not be carried away was either stolen or destroyed. Homes, and crops burned. No exceptions were allowed, even those who were sick had to comply.
Furthermore no assistance was giving to civilians in their forced move. Some had no transportation so were forced to leave everything they owned behind. Many of the families managed to escape South away from Federal control, but that was a land already ravaged by the Yankees and provided little hope. "Barefooted and bareheaded women and children, stripped of every article of clothing except a scant covering for their bodies, exposed to the heat of an August sun and struggling through the dust on foot. " During the process of moving, Jayhawkers and other Union soldiers looted the caravans and executed victims at leisure. For instance one family near Lone Jack, Missouri was halted by soldiers and interrogated. Six males, ranging from age 17 to 75 were held back while the rest of the family was ordered to proceed. The family some distance off heard gunshots and when they returned all six family members were killed.
Several Union soldiers strongly objected to the carrying out of this order. Lt. Col. Bazel Lazear wrote, "It's heart-sickening to see what I have seen since I have been back here. A desolated country and men & women and children, some of them almost naked. Some on foot and some in wagons. Oh God. " Missouri artist and Union soldier, George Caleb Bingham, declared to General Ewing, "I don't approve of your order, and I sincerely believe it is unjust and will cause much suffering among innocent people. " After asking the general to remove the order, Ewing replied, "Rescind it ! Rescind it ! That is impossible. I wouldn't if I could. It is a preposterous request and reveals a lack of knowledge of the military requirements of this department. " Bingham replied, "I do not take issue on whether I lack or possess any military knowledge, but I do not lack a sense of what is just and right, and that order is neither. " Eventually Ewing tired of arguing the matter and declared, "Mister Bingham, you can get out of here. " Bingham made one last attempt to persuade the General by warning, "If you persist in executing this order, I shall make you infamous with my pen and brush so far as I am able. " Bingham was true to his word and painted his famous painting, "Order Number Eleven" which portrays Gen. Ewing near two soldiers that are murdering citizens and a women begging for mercy.
The nature of the war that the Union initiated against the citizens of Missouri and elsewhere in the South has been termed, "total war", where civilians became the targets as well as the soldiers in the Confederate Army. These civilians not only included men but also women and children. This policy of total war was put into practice, ironically, by a St. Louisan named William T. Sherman, who became the North's most notorious general. Gen. Sherman ruthlessly declared, "The government of the U. S. has any and all rights which they choose to enforce in war--to take their lives, their homes, their lands, their everything... war is simply unrestrained by Constitution... To the persistent secessionist, why, death is mercy, and the quicker he or she is disposed of the better... " (Maj. Gen. W. T. Sherman, 31 Jan 1864). This war on citizens was not simply restrained to be applied against men and women but also children. Gen. Sherman in a (21 June 1864) letter to Lincoln's Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, wrote, "There is a class of people men, women, and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order. " A reply from the Lincoln administration (Stanton), reads, "Your letter of the 21st of June has just reached me and meets my approval. " While the war on civilians started much earlier than 1864, the above is simply proof that the war on children was part of that scheme also.
In Missouri, arresting and inprisoning civilians started almost immediately with the start of the war. Simply for expressing sympathy for the South or for that matter being an vocal anti-war democrat would land someone in prison. Parents who sent their sons in the Confederate Army "care boxes" of cookies, warm socks/gloves, if found were arrested for "care and comfort of the enemy". Out in western Missouri, seventeen young ladies who were family of Quantrill's men were arrested. On Aug 14, 1863 the old building in Kansas City, used as their prison collapsed crushing four , badly hurting many others. This was a building unfit for human habitation. Even a Union doctor had urged that the prisoners be taken to a more safe location. It was later found that supports for this structure were undermined causing the deaths of five, and the severe injury of many others. Among the dead were the oldest sister of Bill Anderson; a sister and sister-in-law of John McCorkle; and a cousin of Cole Younger. Among the seriously hurt was Anderson's youngest sister, ten year old Mary, who would be crippled for life. Crowds gathered around the ruins as the dead and wounded were carried off. Soldiers fixed bayonets as shouts of "Murder!" intensified. This event is was what ignited William Anderson to be forever known as, "Bloody Bill" Anderson, as he took revenge for the family loss he received at the hands of the Federals. This also was the powder keg that sent Quantrill's men on a "suicidal raid" on Lawrence, deep in Yankee territory.
While Gen. Sherman perfected "total war" on civilians, but his brother-in-law, Gen. Thomas Ewing put it into practice in Missouri, by issuing Order Number 11 in retaliation for Quantrill's Lawrence raid [which left all men of the town dead, except for Jayhawk leader, Jim Lane, who was either hiding in a corn crib or outhouse pit, according to which source one believes. True to Quantrill's oath, the women and children of Lawrence were not physically harmed in any way]. This has been called by one historian as "the harshest act of the U. S. government against its own people in American history". The order ruined thousands of lives in Missouri for people living in an area 85 miles long by 50 miles wide. This area covered the counties of Jackson, Vernon, Cass, and Bates. Over 20,000 families were affected by this. Everyone in this area were required to vacate within 15 days and move to "posts" (concentration camps) garrisoned by Union soldiers. Anything that could not be carried away was either stolen or destroyed. Homes, and crops burned. No exceptions were allowed, even those who were sick had to comply.
Furthermore no assistance was giving to civilians in their forced move. Some had no transportation so were forced to leave everything they owned behind. Many of the families managed to escape South away from Federal control, but that was a land already ravaged by the Yankees and provided little hope. "Barefooted and bareheaded women and children, stripped of every article of clothing except a scant covering for their bodies, exposed to the heat of an August sun and struggling through the dust on foot. " During the process of moving, Jayhawkers and other Union soldiers looted the caravans and executed victims at leisure. For instance one family near Lone Jack, Missouri was halted by soldiers and interrogated. Six males, ranging from age 17 to 75 were held back while the rest of the family was ordered to proceed. The family some distance off heard gunshots and when they returned all six family members were killed.
Several Union soldiers strongly objected to the carrying out of this order. Lt. Col. Bazel Lazear wrote, "It's heart-sickening to see what I have seen since I have been back here. A desolated country and men & women and children, some of them almost naked. Some on foot and some in wagons. Oh God. " Missouri artist and Union soldier, George Caleb Bingham, declared to General Ewing, "I don't approve of your order, and I sincerely believe it is unjust and will cause much suffering among innocent people. " After asking the general to remove the order, Ewing replied, "Rescind it ! Rescind it ! That is impossible. I wouldn't if I could. It is a preposterous request and reveals a lack of knowledge of the military requirements of this department. " Bingham replied, "I do not take issue on whether I lack or possess any military knowledge, but I do not lack a sense of what is just and right, and that order is neither. " Eventually Ewing tired of arguing the matter and declared, "Mister Bingham, you can get out of here. " Bingham made one last attempt to persuade the General by warning, "If you persist in executing this order, I shall make you infamous with my pen and brush so far as I am able. " Bingham was true to his word and painted his famous painting, "Order Number Eleven" which portrays Gen. Ewing near two soldiers that are murdering citizens and a women begging for mercy.
Let me sum this up:
War is hell.
Sherman fought to win, ugly, wasn't it?
I reckon when you pick a fight with your big brother, you should make dang sure you can win, or he may burn your house down.
War is hell.
Sherman fought to win, ugly, wasn't it?
I reckon when you pick a fight with your big brother, you should make dang sure you can win, or he may burn your house down.
No, I wish the South would have won. 
There is a Sons of Union Veterans Organization. We link to their websites off all of ours and vice-versa. There is also a Daughters of Confederate Soldiers group and I would imagine a Union group there also. Everyone of the suv guys that I have met that is a true historian and not a gov. text book historian are great people. I work with one. He is also a huge train nut and has 1000s of pictures of trains from that era. Cool stuff.
Oh yeah, I was a member of the Salom Dixon Chapter and the Mary wall Corbin chapter was in Rebel Horses area.
The only bad thing was when we had parades we just put C of C on the truck becuase we were little kids and sometimes the Parade winded throug sections that were... ..... uh well... . well they might not get it. We always joked that they thought we were Chamber of Commerce!
ROFLMAO!!! Most of the guys I work with that are black understand where I come from on it all and know I don't support the independence movement for the wrong reasons. One guy in the back that is black actually is more involved that I am. I did get the bird last week from a black guy in a Caddy. I guess he didn't like my small battleflag on the bumper. It tells me who the prejudice people are real quick.
John,
It's funny you mention that. Pretty much all the timber lands in our area were clear cut by Northern companies or under contract from them. Weyerhauser is one that immediately springs to mind, but I know there are others as well. That was one of the only natural resources that could be commercial exploited in those days.
Yep the Son's of Union Vets. is a pretty big organization and I know there's a lot of folks in the SCV that are joint members of the SUV. Kinda cool. Course, there's not a chance I'd ever put on a Union petticoat, even if I died in the first volley of the reenactment. Just wouldn't seem right.
It's funny you mention that. Pretty much all the timber lands in our area were clear cut by Northern companies or under contract from them. Weyerhauser is one that immediately springs to mind, but I know there are others as well. That was one of the only natural resources that could be commercial exploited in those days.
Yep the Son's of Union Vets. is a pretty big organization and I know there's a lot of folks in the SCV that are joint members of the SUV. Kinda cool. Course, there's not a chance I'd ever put on a Union petticoat, even if I died in the first volley of the reenactment. Just wouldn't seem right.
Hhehehehe!!
Weyerhaeuser has paid a LOT of wages to the Sons of the Rebels in the last 100 years, impressive company with vision to replant.
In the 1860s nobody wanted southern pine, they wanted American Chestnut, Oak, Maple. It grew up here.
Weyerhaeuser has paid a LOT of wages to the Sons of the Rebels in the last 100 years, impressive company with vision to replant.
In the 1860s nobody wanted southern pine, they wanted American Chestnut, Oak, Maple. It grew up here.
I wasn't making a comparison to anything really, as far as causlty counts or reasons why they did it. Just wondered if you would include it or sweep it under the rug like you claim the gov't has done with Linclon and other Union leaders. At the Lecompton Constitutional Convention it seems the pro-slavery leaders did a fair job at trampling on the constitution by protecting slavery in Kansas no matter how the people voted. But thats just my opinion.
Reb, you're doin' a good job, keep it up bro!! 
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Posting misinformation from his heart and not his head is a good job?
I think some of you guys have fell prey to the CSA propaganda machine, which is just as bad as the Union side of it. No doubt all the groups you have listed are profiting nicely.
Now, before you all get bent, this is from a guy who was raised a Yankee, on all the classic school books about preserving the Union, freeing the slaves, etc. Brainwashed, right? Wrong. I read everything I could, and came to the conclusion, the South should have been let alone to secede.
Using force to keep a Union intact, did not make any sense whatsoever.
However, the crazies that are still preaching about the South will rise again, are the same type of crazies that fired on Fort Sumter, and started that mess.
Sure it felt good, in their hearts, they just didn't use their heads.
I think some of you guys have fell prey to the CSA propaganda machine, which is just as bad as the Union side of it. No doubt all the groups you have listed are profiting nicely.
Now, before you all get bent, this is from a guy who was raised a Yankee, on all the classic school books about preserving the Union, freeing the slaves, etc. Brainwashed, right? Wrong. I read everything I could, and came to the conclusion, the South should have been let alone to secede.
Using force to keep a Union intact, did not make any sense whatsoever.
However, the crazies that are still preaching about the South will rise again, are the same type of crazies that fired on Fort Sumter, and started that mess.
Sure it felt good, in their hearts, they just didn't use their heads.
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Non-one is here is preaching that the south will rise again. Just preaching to inform the mis-informed about the myth-makers in our government and how they have construed the truth to know end. It is a legacy that the southern people struggle to maintain the truth of for our future generations. But it is being attacked on a daily basis by the Liberal and PC crowd as well as special interest groups trying to convince the population that the Tyrant and Genocide practicing Lincoln was a just and kind leader. That is the only propaganda I have seen as of late. Slavery was never ended by Lincoln in any of the Northern states by his smoke and mirrors proclamation. Exactly what southern leaders are you talking about? Jefferson Davis proposed doing away with slavery in the southern states himself. He had freed his slaves when the north still held slaves and still had laws that forbid a colored person regardless of whether he was a free man or a slave to even set foot in their state. The majority of the Northern states had this law. Northern leaders aka Grant still had slaves after the war had ended which shows even more how much of a farce Lincoln was by saying the war was about slavery. I haven't seen any of the Southern Professors and historians using propaganda. They have actual historic documents written by the leaders themselves as well as soldiers and diaries of both former slaves and civilians that detail what really happened.
rebel_horse,
It's safe to presume that you do not participate in national politics and do not vote at other than the local and perhaps territorial levels?
McColeman,
Thank you for your concise exposition of some of the facts concerning atrocities committed by the United States government against citizens of the southern states. Although as a California native and resident for 53 of my 55 years I have never lived in an atmosphere in which such issues as those at hand during the period were at the forefront of local consiousness, I had previously been exposed to many of those facts by happenstance and so do not doubt your account(s) of them. You do well at bringing it together and I hope that you teach at some level, professionally or not. There is one question I have of you though if you will allow it...
I really cannot understand how a populace which has a history of such oppression as you describe here can by majority vote support the same sorts of activities by that same government in foreign lands. Can you not see the similarities of imperialism, oppression, and rule by force of arms performed both in your home in the past and in the home of others in the present? To me they seem one and the same: a history of atrocious activity by this federal government across this land and around the world.
It's safe to presume that you do not participate in national politics and do not vote at other than the local and perhaps territorial levels?
McColeman,
Thank you for your concise exposition of some of the facts concerning atrocities committed by the United States government against citizens of the southern states. Although as a California native and resident for 53 of my 55 years I have never lived in an atmosphere in which such issues as those at hand during the period were at the forefront of local consiousness, I had previously been exposed to many of those facts by happenstance and so do not doubt your account(s) of them. You do well at bringing it together and I hope that you teach at some level, professionally or not. There is one question I have of you though if you will allow it...
I really cannot understand how a populace which has a history of such oppression as you describe here can by majority vote support the same sorts of activities by that same government in foreign lands. Can you not see the similarities of imperialism, oppression, and rule by force of arms performed both in your home in the past and in the home of others in the present? To me they seem one and the same: a history of atrocious activity by this federal government across this land and around the world.
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