03 Will Only Start With Ether

[TCDiesel]

NEVER Pinch any line on CR systems unless instructed by a Professional to Do so. I cannot count how many times some owner dose the block off test thinking he found the problem Injector and purchase Just one, and it raise the system above stall just to have it re-appear some time later. . I have a question for the TDR experts ,What device(s) control the Pressure on CR Systems?

 

[moparme]

Well Todd, dont have to wait months or weeks, did not start this morning and found fuel in the top of the PRV. I removed it alltogether to get a good look at it and blew it out with some air. That is all I can see to do. Also tried the FCA test as far as pulling the plug, but if the rail dont pressurize due to PRV, it wont start any way, right? I have a FCA coming. thought it would be here yesterday.

 

[cerberusiam]

There will always be fuel in the PRV well because it is tied into the injector return line. To test it correctly you have to isolate the injector return portion and dry the PRV well to make sure it is not overflow.



After doing that, if you see any fuel seepage at idle up to about 2000 rpms testing then the PRV is weak.



Then you can call Todd and get one of his updated and much better PRV's.

 

[moparme]

Thanks guys. I have some things to try now. be on later.

 

[JJPage]

I have a question for the TDR experts ,What device(s) control the Pressure on CR Systems?

I know that you know Todd, however a lot of folks probably do not, here's a link with pictures that explains it very well: CP3 injection pump system - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum



Jess

 

[mweiman]

Moparme,

I noticed in your post above that you have a p0633 code for your skim key, someone smarter than me can answer this, but is it possible you have a key programming issue? Just a thought.

Matt

 

[moparme]

Possibly! I bought the truck a year ago and it only came with one key & the remote lock fob. It is gray in color with the Red Ram insignia on one side. I will cross that bridge after I get this fuel issue by me.

 

[JApol]

If you have the grey key and you have a code for a bad skim code then the truck will crank till you kill the batteries but it will never fire.

 

[moparme]

Why do you say that when it has started with that key since i've had it. Would it just decide to not start one morning because it knows my key is grey? It may be a slight problem now because now I know it has the code there, but why would it start with a can of ether? I don't understand...

 

[moparme]

Ok, replaced the FCA and and a new fuel filter while i was under there tonight and it did start, but not till after a long crank time. Cycled the key twice till it started. Did run fine though. I Must look elsewhere. Crossover tubes?

 

[TCDiesel]

Its unlikely the tubes are the problem,without some other running problem(s).

 

[Andres]

If you could beg/borrow/steal a rail pressure gauge that would tell you if pressure is being bled off somewhere. If it's an injector, a rail cap might narrow it down to an injector.





**

Basically connect the gauge, read crank pressure (erratic) but around 1000 psi. Disconnect fuel rail at injector #1, put cap on fuel rail - then crank and read pressure.

If it starts or reads 2500 psi (likely not quite enough), that injector or crossover tube is causing a problem.



If it's no better ie still 1000psi, reconnect #1 and move to line #2. This is real easy with 2 people.



edit: If the rail pressure at crank is 3500 psi, it's possible its the SKIM, not likely an injector issue.

 

[moparme]

I dont get the SKIM KEY being the problem for Hard starting. I started the truck this morning on (1) long cycle crank and it fired up. I drove to work, ran fine (like it always has) I will be going out at Noon to crank it again. I would think if you had a Non-Programmed Key, It Would Not Start At All, Regardless.

 

[JJPage]

Its unlikely the tubes are the problem,without some other running problem(s).

Todd , I respect your experience, but how can you state this^, if this procedure has not been addressed?



I agree to the fact, that once age /mileage reaches the point where injectors may need to be replaced, then there is no alternative (100k is not the number), unless your truck has been subject to less than clean fuel.



Let me ask you this, when you install new injectors in a customer's truck, do you replace cross tubes? If not, why? If I was to replace injectors, I sure as heck would not use my used, once or twice torqued metal cross tubes.



I believe you are remiss, in your above statement,(CR's will run once started, loose cross tubes, leaky injectors, bad prv, bad cov, etc) if I am wrong, explain it to me, and the forum.

 

[TCDiesel]

Incorrect installation will result Poor start ,erratic rail pressure and monetary lose of power,Once they are seated correctly they may come lose, but when they do generally the hard start is only when cold, now unplug the FCA when running then shut down, plug FCA back in and it will start. leave it sit for 5 minutes and you are back to hard start, this always determines injector Problem not tubes.



If tubes are removed or reused 5 or more times replace them ( they may become warped) otherwise I have never replace them after inspection UNLESS they have some type of imperfection(s) or have been known to be over TQ.

 

[JJPage]

Incorrect installation will result Poor start ,erratic rail pressure and monetary lose of power,Once they are seated correctly they may come lose, but when they do generally the hard start is only when cold, now unplug the FCA when running then shut down, plug FCA back in and it will start. leave it sit for 5 minutes and you are back to hard start, this always determines injector Problem not tubes.



If tubes are removed or reused 5 or more times replace them ( they may become warped) otherwise I have never replace them after inspection UNLESS they have some type of imperfection(s) or have been known to be over TQ.

Yes, when cold, they will not seat correctly, If loose or installed incorrectly(cross tubes)... hard start, once warm ,the tolerance is minimal and it will start. By unplugging the FCA, you are allowing the engine to fire at maximum rail.



I agree, this could be 1 or more injector's leaking off pressure, but imo, more often than not, it is not the injector body or nozzle.



Another factor to contemplate, anytime corrosion is evident on the outside of the tube, this proves water contamination because of leaking tubes, and more than 2 torque sequences, tubes should be replaced(imo). Anybody who has torqued anything 5 times, knows this product has been stressed too far(imo).



Todd , I am continuing to disagree, as long as cross tubes are being dismissed as irrelevant!

 

[moparme]

Alright, it started at noon and i made it home from work fine. Now it will be chilly tonight so I am plugging it in. Am iI hurting it by driving it with the hard start prob. I desperately need it for work, so if it starts tomorrow, i will be driving it. At 148K it does not look to ever have been worked on. There are no wrench marks on the fuel line fittings! What does my problem sound like. I would get the gauges and fittings if I knew where to install them. Then I could read the pressures. What would the SKIM KEY code have to do with my Prob? Someone playing with me?

 

[JJPage]

Alright, it started at noon and i made it home from work fine. Now it will be chilly tonight so I am plugging it in. Am iI hurting it by driving it with the hard start prob. I desperately need it for work, so if it starts tomorrow, i will be driving it. At 148K it does not look to ever have been worked on. There are no wrench marks on the fuel line fittings! What does my problem sound like. I would get the gauges and fittings if I knew where to install them. Then I could read the pressures. What would the SKIM KEY code have to do with my Prob? Someone playing with me?

If you have a "grey " skim key, you need to have it programmed to your truck, the fact that it has not been a problem to this point, could leave you vulnerable to thieves... .



My Wife's Rubicon Jeep has a grey key, the dealer said it would not operate past a determined distance/time without communication.

 

[moparme]

No ****! Really? So you think that time is now? A problem I know it is, but the Key and my long crank times related? I will look into this I guess. $60-$70 a key Im sure, then Programming? Its a racket I say.