04½ Oil Analysis Results

[flattracker]

Should of been 15,000 not 150,000 sorry.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

That is interesting flattracker. When I tried Delvac 1 it gave slightly better numbers than the Amsoil initially, but after the 10k mark it fell off quicker than the Amsoil (15w40). The thing about oil is you can have the same brand or type give markedly different results between two different rigs/owners.



Vaughn

 

[Mundgyver]

My goal for oil changs is to move out to beyond 50,000 miles between them. That is why I have installed the Spinner II and why I have taken a large interest in oil analysis. I know of some delivery companies in Canada that are pushing 125,000 between full oil drain downs / changes to new oil. They replace the full flow filter at the recommended interval and send in an for an oil analysis. I invested about $400 in my system and feel it is well worth the effort and piece of mind.



Not having changed brands of oil, I think allows me to have a better feel for the numbers that I am getting as earlier posted. If I was changing oil to a different brand and I saw my numbers move by a fair amount, then I would be curious and possibly worried about my decision and would probably be doing a couple of extra samplings to be sure of which direction the trend line would be going.



Food for thought

 

[puebla]

Mundgyver: Bump for more info on the Spinner II installation.

 

[Mundgyver]

I will be pulling an oil sample this Thursday and taking picture of what comes out of the spinner at that time. Thursday is my first day off this week. I have over 16000 on the oil now.

 

[RDietze]

i have read in the past that oil analysis can VARY greatly from one company to the other - what do you guys think?



ron

 

[LightmanE300]

Thanks for the info guys, and Mundgyver, thanks for posting your results. I'll use that for comparitive purposes on my next one. I plan on sticking with the Amsoil and OAI so I can get a trend. I do by the way, change oil and filter every time. I think maybe that my iron was high because of the 6k on the oil, 5k was towing heavy (10k). I'm not easy on the truck when towing either, my foot is in it pretty steady. I could be way off on my theory of the iron, but my next sample should tell me more as I'm not towing at all. Thanks again.

I have been using OAI since 2001. They sub out their work to a number of different labs, so saying OAI does this or that isn't really accurate... The lab I've had all my testing done through is CTC - cleveland technical center. They are owned by a parent company Staveley services, which has a nice website with a free login/account so you can sign in and view all of your analysis reports. In any case, I have seen samples from the same batch of oil go to CTC, Blackstone, and another lab, and all came out with very close numbers. Some are a little different when it comes to TBN, but close for the most part.



Bert - I know you are probably in denial that anything is wrong and want to just watch 'trending', but those iron numbers are really high. I would check this next sample a little sooner - maybe 7500, and if they are anywhere near this one, get your truck checked out. (Doesnt the owner's manual spec 7500 mile changes for 'severe use'??) I dont think it has anything to do with synthetic oil. I don't tow 10,000 lbs, but drive my truck hard all the time, tow about 70% of the time, have additional fueling, and have never even gotten close to those numbers with the stock filtration setup. I think over 10,000 miles running either amsoil, redline, or delvac 1, I have never seen more than an iron count of 20 or 25 in my truck.



The tbn is significantly depleted, and much of the wear COULD have happened toward the end of your interval, when the additive package had been weakened. Experts typically recommend that you change out your oil when the TBN is 50% of the original value. Most diesel synthetics are in the range of 11-12 TBN, so you were getting there as far as your oil being worn out.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Most diesel synthetics are in the range of 11-12 TBN, so you were getting there as far as your oil being worn out. "



ALL of which pretty well underscores MY earlier comment as to the, ummmmm, questionable reasoning for OAI to specify that oil as being good for additional usage...



I just don't have any trust in that outfit...

 

[LightmanE300]

Gary I hear ya on that one... While I have confidence in their testing - based on comparative testing on the same oil etc, and years of use, I also feel like they (and many other labs) are trying so hard to sell the benefits of extended drains and synthetics, that they have pretty loose standards for what is acceptable. Then again, we oil analysis enthusiasts are pretty picky and careful with our engines... I haven't seen very much actual evidence of people having excessive wear or problems from higher counts than we as a community typically allow or agree on. .



I think even more so the reality is that busy labs like oai probably do not personally review each sample. My guess is a computer measures values and based on those it automatically generates the line - suitable for continued use... I mean his tbn wasn't less than 50% of the new level... technically it could be used longer... but wow the iron!

 

[puebla]

LightmanE300: Thanks for the insight.

 

[Mundgyver]

I wonder if there is a difference in how one pulls the sample. When I installed my Spinner II, I installed a port that allows me to take a sample while the engine is running and warmed up with full oil pressure, vice taking one with nothing flowing and having to draw out of the dip-stick tube or from the drain port on the pan.



My thinking was I wanted a sample that is under actual running and temp conditions to go to the lab vice a static one.



How many individuals pull samples in active or static and I wonder what the over all averages would look like between the groups.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I wonder if there is a difference in how one pulls the sample. When I installed my Spinner II, I installed a port that allows me to take a sample while the engine is running and warmed up with full oil pressure, vice taking one with nothing flowing and having to draw out of the dip-stick tube or from the drain port on the pan.



My thinking was I wanted a sample that is under actual running and temp conditions to go to the lab vice a static one.



How many individuals pull samples in active or static and I wonder what the over all averages would look like between the groups.

I've been down this oil analysis road, and extended drain bit a few times - as well as the long-standing dino vs synthetic bit.



Some here remember some of the stuff I have done and then posted here related to various aspects of oil types and use - I consider myself an "oil enthusiast" - but by NO means an oil "expert"!





All that said, here for some newcomers who missed it, is a thread I originated on a lot of issues being discussed in this thread - and also some insight as to my stated distrust of OAI:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109166



ENJOY!

 

[amsoilman]

491 hours on engine, 25k miles, 6k on sampled oil, most of that towing 10k fiver. Here's the results:



Iron 108

Chromium 3

Lead 3

Copper 13

Tin 0

Aluminum 10

Nickel 0

Silver 3

Silicon 7

Boron 13

Sodium 3

Magnesium 20

Calcium 3493

Barium 0

Phosphorous 1398

Zinc 1699

Molybdenum 9

Titanium 0

Vanadium 0

Potassium 0

Fuel (% Vol) <1

Vis @ 100c 13. 96

Water (% Vol) 0

Soot/Solids (% Wt) 0. 5

Glycol Negative

TBN 6. 17

Oxid 12

Nitr 8

F-soot 0. 54





What does all this mean? Also, the report says no corrective action, suitable for continued use. What are the normal parameters? Oil is Amsoil HDD 15w40

YOU do need to look at trends! IN other words, continue your used oil analysis on a regular basis (YOU decide how often) and see if there is any BIG changes in the analysis. Continue to use the same analysis lab. They will tell you if anything becomes out of line. Believe in them. If they say "no corrective action" it simply says everything is OK. They have nothing to gain in giving you a false report. NO TWO ENGINES WILL BE THE SAME when it comes to wear!



YOU CAN NOT GET MUCH FROM ONLY ONE ANALYSIS!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[LightmanE300]

I agree that trends are helpful to watch, but the iron and tbn depletion are pretty heavy. I didn't notice it was only 6k miles, I thought it was 9k or something for some reason. I'd sample at 5k this time to see how things are doing. If you are too paranoid to trust oai take two samples, send them to oai and one other lab, and compare the results. .

 

[Johnstra]

I know he costs a little more ($35), but some of you guys might be interested in having Terry Dyson analyze your oil. I've been very impressed with him and the level of participation he offers. He is extremely knowledgeable in oil matters and he'd be particularly helpful in cases like this, with higher than typical iron wear. Just something to consider.

-john

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I think most users familiar with oil analyzing would agree that watching trends is the name of the game. BUT, it's ALSO true that you must start out with an outfit that is at least on the same playing field with the competitors - and based upon what the originator of THIS thread has posted, either of two conditions exist:



1. He has significantly excessive wear numbers as compared to what most would consider reasonable and acceptable considering the miles on the engine and the oil tested.



2. OR, OAI is so far off base with their report, that it is worthless to be used even for a base reading for later tests...



Or, perhaps a combination of both conditions, since OAI saw what the results were, and STILL considered the readings acceptable.



I know that if I got results like that from Blackstone, they would NOT be giving out a passing grade on the oil, and I'd drop them if they DID!



YMMV!

 

[Mundgyver]

Well I pulled the spinner apart last night thinking I was going to clean it and got a huge suprise. It was empty with no oil in it. Bottom line was that the check valve that is in the spinner stuck closed. I tore it down and when I tried to blow out the valve after removing the spring, it would not come out even with 125 psi of air. I had to drive it out with a drift. The cause is that when the thing was milled, it was not rounded but look like a piston with the top being in the shap of this _------_ . The little ridge around the end was designed to seat into a hole that it could seal. The edges were sharp and bound up.



So, I have run 16,000 on the same oil with only a regular filter change. I am not happy about this but I did find a weakness with the Spinner II that I am now warning you all about.



I have fixed the problem. I took the valve out and chucked it up in the drill press and rounded the end so it cannot stick. I also checked the opening pressure when installed. It was suppose to be 20 psi. But with the air set to 20 psi nothing. It would not open unitil I hit 40 psi on the gage. I shortened the spring. Took me 3 tries to get it where I wanted, but it now opens at 20 psi and does not bind.



I will pull a sample in the morning after I make a run. This will be interesting because the oil is about a dirty as it can get and now that I know the Spinner is working properly, we will see how fast it clean the oil of the soot.



I did not get any pictures last night as I was just focused on correcting the problem. I will work at getting some pictures of it disassembled to show the mods I made so the rest of you can benifit.



I believe in the technology of this unit. Just my luck that when they built this that they made the seating surfaces too tight and they stuck. But it is fixed.



More to come later.

 

[puebla]

Thanks for the update. What are your prices on the Spinner II system?

 

[Mundgyver]

I paid $278 for mine. Now that it is fixed, when I shut the truck off, I can hear it winding down.



I sent off my oil sample to Blackstone and should have the results this next week. They will be interesting.

 

[puebla]

Can you post a contact number to your Spinner contact?