04½ Oil Analysis Results

[Gary - K7GLD]

I don't want to hijack this thread by any means, but since it has currently evolved into a bypass or aftermarket oil processing comparison, I'd sorta like to keep it apples/apples.



My earlier dipstick pic, as stated, was taken at about 12,000 miles on the Delo 400 - here's what it looked like at 5000 miles:



#ad




With the Frantz, and using the Delo, soot elimination was good, but DID steadily increase in density as can be seen. I wanted to point this out to establish a better comparison with Mundgyver's spinner - it will be worth watching to see if that spinner is better able to stabilize soot accumulation over longer mileages.



HEY, lets see those analysis #'s! Oo. Oo.

 

[Mundgyver]

With the Frantz, and using the Delo, soot elimination was good, but DID steadily increase in density as can be seen.

I'm not nit picking here but this is why I wanted to go with the Spinner. I too have two other by-pass filters, one is a dual Amsoil which I like allot and the other is a full sized big rig diesel one made by Pura-Dyne that I have not installed, still new in the box. Filter media fill up with the soot over time and eventually you have to replace the filter because it becomes full and it's efficiencey drops off. I am not say that is bad, it is just the way it works.



The Spinner being a centrafuge, throws the soot out to the sides while allowing full flow and never clogs or looses it's efficiency, at least that is the theory. Most medical centrafuges run at about 3,500 RPM tops to seperate fluids. This speed is chosen to seperate but not destroy the organic nature of what is being looked at. With the Spinner my rpm speed is between 5,500 to 7,000 rpm depending on oil pressure. My pressure is 60 psi at cruise which sets up for a 6,000 rpm or abouts. I would like to get all the soot out, buit I know that will not happen, so my hope is that we reach a clean point that is at a steady removal rate that can be measured by Oil Analysis.

 

[puebla]

Mundgyver: IMO Between the Racor, Amsoil and Frantz, I think the Frantz and the Amsoil are the better bargains. Please keep in mind gentlemen, that the Amsoil dual bypass oil filter is exactly that, a dual bypass. The Amsoil is a superb filter, however, two Amsoil filters are a tad more expensive than one TP roll for a Frantz. The Spinner II outshines both of these two comparable units because it uses no replaceable filters. And, all the Spinner II users I have chatted with on the open highway have expressed astonishment with the simplicity of use, efficiency and cleanliness of their diesels oil after installing a Spinner II oil bypass system.

 

[KennethS]

Need major overhaul????

When you get your oil tested,they should show you how to read the outcome. A friend desided to have his oil check on his airplane and when the report came back they told him not to fly the airplane under any circumstances. That was a shock to him. He had to have a major done$$$$$$. I told you that you can go to NAPA and get the sample bottle to send for a test.

 

[JPereira]

Is there any reason I could not use both the Amsoil Dual bypass and the SpinnerII? Would the oil pressure suffer to much of a drop? I like the thought of both?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I then change my regular filter pre-charging it with fresh oil. Pull the Spinner apart and clean it and then just run. "



Out of curiosity, how much time/effort is involved in the above? Reason I ask, is the often heard complaint among critics of Frantz type filters as to the "time involved", and the 2500 mile or so change frequency.



On my Frantz, changing the filter and reusing the same canister will take about 5 minutes. If I have my spare canister filled with a fresh TP cartridge, that time is down to about a minute - less than for the stock spin on full flow.



Hardly a great personal sacrifice in a reasonably normal time schedule! :-laf :-laf



Of course, I then have to refill the dirty canister, but can do that at whatever time is preferable to me.



I found that swapping out the TP cartridge and adding a quart of fresh oil at 2500 miles or so was keeping my TBN/TAN right up there with new oil - maybe higher than really needed - your 7500 mile interval will be interesting to compare against. Are you having your oil tested for TAN/TBN as well?



Where are those analysis numbers? I'm dying of curiosity here! :-laf :-laf

 

[Mundgyver]

My oil samples are taken and submitted to Blackstone Labs. I will be posting them tommorow (Wed). The number I post might look od as I have only 4 sample so far and one will show the results of the spinner not working properly. This was a mistake on my part not the spinner. I did not porperly check the function after install of the pressure valve within the spinner. It stuck closed and I ran for the 7,500 miles normal and then 7,500 additional. The primary filter had been changed at the 7,500 mark but the oil was not. The spinner was installed between these two marks. With in the spinner the port was factory machined to tight and stuck closed after about an hour (my estimate) or the first shut down. It is supposed to open at 20 psi. In reality it would not open with 125 psi of air applied to it. I have since modified the port and rounded the end of the piston so orfice seat into a ball shape, so that it cannot get stuck closed and have shortened and retuned the spring to open precisly at 20 psi vice 45 psi. I have a little over or under 3,000 mile now on this setup with new oil. These finding were posted in my other post.



With regards to using the the Amsoil bypass in conjunction with this, it can be done. I have considered this and if I were to to this, my method would be to route a 1/8 or 1/16 inch line with a needle valve to control the flow down to maybe 1 gph. I would take this from the entry point of the spinner.



I currently have my oil pressure tweaked up via a shim ontop of the spring for the bypass oil flow in the cooler. This was done to compensate for the parallel path of oil through the spinner as I did not want my over all oil pressure to drop. My current idle pressure without the spinner is 30 psi and my cruising pressure is 60 psi. It was 25 and 52 psi before this tweak to the oil bypass spring. With the spinner engaged my idle runs at 23 to 24 and my cruise pressure is 59/60 psi. These number are obtained my my Roadrelay 4.



In the morning when I first start up, my oil pressure at idle is 55 to 60 and will run up to 85 psi or higher if I give it moderate throttle until it warms up. Oil temperature runs a consistant 10 to 15* warmer than water temp.



Like I said before, Wed, I will be pulling the spinner apart and checking it and cleaning it. I will post pictures of the procedure. With respect to how much time it takes, 10 minutes tops to clean it. If I had another centrefuge that I could just pop in and change out like a second Franz housing then the time would be under 60 seconds for service. Maybe I will put another one on order for that purpose.



Oh one thing more, when I get my oil reports, I always request what the TBN are and solubles. I won't settle for half a report, I want to know all of it.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Just for comparison when Mundgyver's analysis #'s hit the thread, here's mine from my last, 20K analysis on the same Delo oil and Frantz bypass filter - also shown on this report, were the 5K and 13K sample results - keep in mind this was a relatively new and tight engine at the beginning of that test run, and wear #'s were considerably higher than what showed in the last sample at 20K on that oil as the engine settled in - for instance, Iron only went up another 2ppm during the last 7K miles on the oil, etc. :



#ad




Personally, I love these sort of threads - many here (like ME!) are constantly looking for better oils and gadgets to preserve our engines and extend their life expectancy - what Mundgyver has found may well be another such device!



Here's hoping!

 

[Mundgyver]

I just got home from running errands and will be pulling my spinner for cleaning and will put my post on after that. I will post pics and also my oil sample results. I will be back on in about an hour or so after I get done and organize the picture and write up to post. See you guys in few.



-Wally-

 

[amsoilman]

Gary,

Since you change toilet paper elements every 2-3,000 miles, How many quarts of oil has been added since you started this routine?



Wayne

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary,

Since you change toilet paper elements every 2-3,000 miles, How many quarts of oil has been added since you started this routine?



Wayne

I think I covered that over in the related "Extended dino oil drain" Thread - around 10 quarts in 20K miles and over a year's running - mostly fairly heavy towing.



Yes, a fair volume of oil, but far LESS than normal oil changes would have been (about 9 GALLONS!) - and the TBN and TAN were still high enough to have not needed that much replacement oil. I could have as easily only added the makep quart every other TP cartridge change, since adding a full quart usually ran my oil level over the full mark - in fact, that IS what I am doing on my current oil change...



But Mundgyvers Spinner will be interesting, if he can match conventional oil analysis with bypass units like the Frantz and Amsoil units, without the waste/replacement oil... Oo.

 

[Mundgyver]

OK here we go. Oil sample report first The number of miles on the 11/30/05 sample should read 16362 on oil and 156307. I am not sure why it was keyed in different. This particular sample was when I discovered I had a problem with the spinner as described before which has been corrected.



If it is ok I would like to redirect those interested in the spinner to the following thread



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133882



I am posting my spinner teardown and clean pictures there as soon as I post this. Just trying to keep this thread on oil analysis on the topic.



-Wally-

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

UMMmmmm - no see-um analysis report?

 

[Mundgyver]

Ok well this sucks. I am trying to post the oil sample report and the site wont let me. If if post at the size is says, the darn thing is so small you can't read it. I wish we could just do normal attachments that could be opened by the viewer. Any suggestion

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have the same problem with larger material - send it to me direct at full size, and I'll see if I can resize and post it for you:



-- email address removed --

 

[Mundgyver]

This is a pain in the butt to load up a simple report

 

[Mundgyver]

Ok I am going to slip over the the other thread and post the picture there.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133882



-Wally-

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

HMmmm - 149 miles on the oil - interesting, but we'll hafta wait longer for more meaningful data after more oil usage/miles I guess...



ON the Blackstone oil analysis, I tried simply posting a pointer in a post to the PDF file they sent me on my last oil analysis, and that seemed to work fine, just can't get an image that size to display inside a normal post I guess...

 

[Mundgyver]

I like using Blackstone as they are quick on turn around. I send it to them on Friday from here in Sherwood, Oregon and Monday evening I have an email from them with the report.



I would like to be able to get out beyond 50,000 to 60,000 miles between oil changes. One thing for sure is that now that I have got the bugs worked out of the spinner I feel real comfortable with the set up and what I have seen so far.

 

[Mundgyver]

I guess if I want to get real picky about oil filtering I can throw on my PuraDyn PFT 12 system with the spinner also.