04.5 48RE TCC in 2nd Gear?

[Ozymandias]

Hi together



I've got some questions about my trannies behavior.



My Transmission locks up in manual 2nd Gear, is this standard or is this transmission modified?

Also the TCC stays, only sometimes, locked when I switch from manual 2nd to drive.

I bought this truck lately and I don't know much about the history.



Also there is a MOPAR Jakebrake installed, and she works pretty well.

What's about this mystery thrust washer that is mentioned in other threads, I didn't find any picture of it or actually which washer in the transmission is meant, there's more than one.



I installed a TCC Led so I know always if it is locked or not.



I didn't find any computer controller or else attached to the factory wiring.



Thank you

Ozy

 

[AEdelheit]

A stock 48RE will lock up in 2nd if the shifter is in 2nd but not if it's in 3rd, so that behavior is normal. I don't know much about the thurs washer but I do know you would need a manual lockup or something like the ATS CO PILOT to lock up the tc.

 

[rscurtis]

AFAIK, the 48 was not modified to accept the reverse thrust of an exhaust brake until the 2006 model year. While it may work, it could compromise one of the thrust surfaces unless the transmission has been modified. Lockup in manual "2" is normal, my signature truck does it also.

 

[HBarlow]

There was a very long running thread that started in 2002 after the big Cummins-TDR Rally at Columbus, IN in summer of 2002. The thread ran on for four or five years as Carlton Bale, a Jacobs Exhaust Brake engineer, kept members apprised of developments regarding eventual approval by Chrysler/Dodge of an exhaust brake in 48RE trucks. A lot of engineering, testing, and modification had to be done before OEM level approval was granted.

Here is the complete and unabridged stroy if you'd like to learn the history of Jacobs Exhaust Brakes in 48RE equipped Ram trucks.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...t-Brake-Current-Status&highlight=carlton+bale

 

[cerberusiam]

The 04. 5 TCM wasn't very smart, it is entirely possible it may not unlock the TC fast enough on a manual shift fron 2 to D. If it only happens occasinally then it is likely not an issue. In the other hand, if the TC has been replaced with a triple disk that would fairly normal, the triples do not unlock as fast and you can get them to pretty much stay locked on a shift. Only way to know for sure is pul it apart and look.

Your pretty safe with an 04. 5 on the thrust washer problem as that was when they started replacing it. Even then, the problem only showed as a potential issue when you used the EB hard and long, like always in the mountains and using frequently for months at a time. You rarely hear of failure that can be directly traced to EB use, its almost always something else that goes first without upgrades.

Locking in 2nd manual is normal, they were designed to do that for cooling when towing hard on long grades.

 

[Ozymandias]

Well, I read the entire 33 Pages of the Story today, gave me a lot of Input.
But there is one open question at the end.

Carlton says that the 04. 5 ECM is preprogrammed for the EB, mine has only the "warm-up" function - but it doesn't lockup the TCC.
Is this the correct way to function or has my truck a malfunction?

 

[cerberusiam]

The 04. 5 ECM can't work correctly with an integrated EB becuase it does not have enough control to not hurt the transmission. You need one of these in conjunction with and EB controller that locks out OD and locks the TC, http://www.dieselperformance.com/index.php/product/index/29P. When you lift off the throttle your TV pressure drops along with the clutch apply pressures, under a load that will potentialy slip clutches and burn the trans up. You have to add the pressure loc for off throttle EB engaged scenarios. You might have to manually downshift to 2nd gear to use it a slower speeds as the 04. 5 ECM does not have the ability to control that only the pressure loc maxing TV pressure would cause that downshift. Even then, without VB mods it probably won't work as applying the lockup clutch vents the gov circuit and forces it to the highest gear avaialable. The TC would need to unlock, let the trans downshift, then lock again and I am not sure the available controllers do that.

 

[Ozymandias]

Hi Cerb

I'm going with a BD Double-Disc Converter, the Opie Shaft and the TransGo Shiftkit with the GM Solenoid Kit, all parts are on the way to Switzerland.

When I use the EB now I just look by myself by that the TCC is locked, it does look under deceleration.

Is this setup enough or is the pressurelock feature a need?

Ozy

 

[cerberusiam]

Even though the shift kit will raise the apply pressures, you still need the pressure lock if you are going to be making heavy use of the EB. Its the difference between 70-80 psi and 140-160 psi apply pressures under deceleration. A light load or just the truck won't be as big a deal, but, a 10-12k trailer and it can and will slip clutch packs.

Do you have a controller that drops OD and holds the TC lcoked up when the EB is on?

 

[Ozymandias]

Thats the interesting thing, the EB switch has an influence to the way the ATG shifts, usually it only goes till 3rd gear and stays longer in lower gears, 4th gear shifts only at freeway speed or even not if the engine is not at working temperature.



So I'm little confused about how the logic is in my trucks ECM.



Short said, with EB switch on it acts like it is in tow/haul mode without using that switch at all - but with use of the 4. th gear that is not locked out. With the TH Switch the 4th IS locked out fully.



Funny Truck.....





Oh, I don't do any Trailers, it is only a camper truck, used for holidays in remote areas.

9000LBS GVW

 

[Ozymandias]

And yes, the TCC will stay locked when I let go the throttle until the rpm fell under a certain limit, with or without the EB is active , just switched on or completely off.

But when the TCC is not locked and I switch the EB it doesn't lock up, only the EB growl and depresses the rpm down to 800.

 

[cerberusiam]

It sounds like you don't have any integration between the EB and engine control, or something is not working right. The TC is normally going to stay locked down to 40-45 mph, and EB contoller will usually allow it to stay locked down to around 30 mph. Most, maybe not all, controllers will drop OD when you engage the EB at road speed. Does that happen? At say 70 mph, if you lift off the throttle and engage the EB does it down shift to drive?

Question, does the EB enage when you are accelerating? What you are describing as feeling like TH mode that you don't have could quite likely be the EB engaging under acceleration which it should never do. Another function of an EB controller is to make sure that once the APPS readings rise the EB shuts off until the throttle is closed again. From what you are decribing, you have an EB switch and nothing else.

 

[CRHardie]

Not for nothing but his description of how his truck operates with the EB on sounds a lot like how my 06 operates other than my 06 will downshift from OD to D. Wish it would down shift to second also. Cant have everything I guess.

 

[Ozymandias]

@ Cerb,

with your last post you gave me a important information - it is the speed that matters!
i never thought about this, yes, around 30MpH the ECM opens the TCC but not opens the EB Valve in the exhaust.
Last Monday i checked all the wiring of the EB, everything is fine like in the installation manual, the Switchcable (Yellow) goes to the ECM and from there the Green Cable goes to the EB Relais.
2 second delay works also fine.
I'll check the 4-3 downshift next time i drove the Truck, today i'm going to fit the converter and all the parts around it.

Because I'm affiliated with Cummins, I can't recommend any procedure outside of warranty or make speculations or claims in this area. I'm sure you understand my constraints. I suggest searching discussion forums and see if anyone has experienced brake-related issues on automatics. I doubt you'll find much. As far as a lockup controller, the engine control module for 2004. 5 sends a lockup signal to the transmission during braking; an external lock-up module would be redundant.

As Carlton has written, it is fully integrated but the safety features are missing, so the EB wont turn off when the TCC opens because of slowing down under a preset limit, at this time the user itself has to override the system.


Here is a picture of my personal background, the big Red is my job, Renault Lander, 500 Hp, 34 Metric Tons GVW, Interchangeable container System.
So with this i expected of course that the engine brake will work all the time down till a full stop.

#ad

 

[Bill Stockard]

I see you don't have to deal with "Bridge Laws" with such a short wheelbase truck... narrow streets and sharp turns.

Yes, there's a big difference between an engine brake on a heavy a duty truck and an exhaust brake on a light duty truck equipped with an automatic transmission that was originally designed many years ago for a car.

Bill

 

[cerberusiam]

Cool!! Does that 2nd axle from the front also steer?

Now you see th edifference between integration and full integration that stopped Dodge from recommending them on anything but the 06's and newer. That is what Carlton was referencing. Not all the features are available you would get with a EB controller and since Dodge couldn't\wouldn't put them into the older trucks they just drew a line in the sand.

 

[p-Bar]

Cerb I followed the Carlton thread as I was wanting to put one on my 04. 5 . The biggest issue was there wasn't enough ram in the computer to load the update for the EB . The BD tow loc should work great in the watchmakers truck

 

[Ozymandias]

@Cerb & Bill



Yes we dont have bridge laws, and all streets in switzerland are tiny and narrow, ist's a hard job to be done.

At my Truck the 1&2 Axle are steering.



This here is the newest Truck in are company.

5 Axles, first 3 are steering, 3th axle lifts if truck is empty, 42 Metric Tons GVW.



#ad






To the TCC; I'll make the Tow-Loc and the Pressure-Loc in the Future, they are booked.

 

[Bill Stockard]

@Cerb & Bill



Yes we dont have bridge laws, and all streets in switzerland are tiny and narrow, ist's a hard job to be done.

At my Truck the 1&2 Axle are steering.



This here is the newest Truck in are company.

5 Axles, first 3 are steering, 3th axle lifts if truck is empty, 42 Metric Tons GVW.



#ad






To the TCC; I'll make the Tow-Loc and the Pressure-Loc in the Future, they are booked.

Do you drop off and pick up those containers a different locations?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=WQXskAcQTYY&NR=1



Bill

 

[Ozymandias]

Hi Bill

Yes but with a different system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKwd4iL44CE

HIAB Multilift XR21S
This one can lift 25 Metric Ton until it quits.

We have several different containers, some for gravel, some for big rocks, some for hot tarmac, and the biggest 40 m³ for sheet wood and garbage.
Our company works in road building, excavation for new Buildings and also Building destruction.
So my job is diversified and not boring.