05 engine failure.. Please help

[Redmega06]

I think that if dodge would actually train their people to be mechanics and not parts changers they could actually diagnose problems and make customers feel better. I don't think that anyone is so stupid to think that aftermarket parts that add power don't shorten the life of parts but for the dealership just to take the shortcut and recall a bulletin sent out is not good enough. They should be required to earn some of that $80. 00 hr that they charge. As an aircraft mechanic you just didn't get to replace a part because it was bad and send them on their way you had better damn well have known what caused the failure.



In one way I feel if they are to stupid to actually find what caused the problem then they should pay the price. They are supposedly the geniuses that invented these trucks and noone could be as great as them then why is it that they can't seem to find the smallest problems why do customers have to constantly return with the same problem why does the customer get told to take the vehicle and drive it and tell them what happens.



Maybe the same people wrote the their business plans that teach their parts changers.



I think everyone would be happy if they felt that they got intelligent answers and where not being talked down to.

 

[HBarlow]

Sounds like pie in the sky utopia you're asking for.

Who is the "Dodge" you are talking about? Cummins designs and builds the engines but has nothing to do with installing or marketing them in our Dodge trucks or diagnosing and repairing them at a Dodge dealership. Dodge assembles and sell the trucks but also sell numerous automobile lines, all different.

I think the "Dodge" you are talking about is 2,000 to 3,000 small independent businesses that are struggling to hire, train, and retain adequate technicians while struggling to make a profit and stay in business. Dealerships find it extremely difficult to hire and retain good people and can't afford to have them off at factory training all the time while no one remains in the shop to repair their customer's cars and trucks. We all complain about dealerships sometimes but running a business profitably is not simple or easy.

Finding people that can accurately diagnosis and repair even one system of a modern car or truck is difficult. There is no factory school that takes kids out of high school and spends two or three years training them on all systems of a modern car or truck. It would be very expensive to provide or graduate from such a school and the technical systems would be changing for each model each and every year requiring constant retraining. It is not as simple as you might like it to be. There are several good auto tech schools around the country but it takes money to attend and they teach generic cars and trucks, not specific makes, models, and engines.

You indicated you are an aircraft mechanic. I suspect you are not capable of diagnosing and repairing the air frame, engines, electronics, hydraulics, and other systems and components of all modern aircraft any more than an automobile dealership technician can repair all systems of all car and truck lines they sell.

The bottom line in this thread is not whether the dealership is capable of diagnosing the problem with the OP's truck engine but who is going to pay for the teardown, diagnosis, and repair or replacement. They knew or suspected immediately that his engine had been modified and he admitted it because he knew they could prove the truck was modified. His warranty ended at that point. The district service manager has voided his warranty and that decision is very unlikely to be overturned.

I feel certain that if the OP wants the dealership to repair his truck they will but he will be paying for it. In summary, this is not Dodge's problem, it is the original poster's.

 

[RKerner]

One needs to be careful about throwing auto technicians under the bus as there could be people here who can do the same with aircraft mechanics. As a former ASE Master Tech and former major airline powerplant engineer, I will side with auto techs in this rare analogy. To his point, though, independent thinking seems to not be promoted by either maintenance profession in this day and age which is just plain sad. To stay a little closer to the middle of the fence, there are excellent techs and poor techs in both dealerships and maintenance stations.



Back to the guy's issue, sticking with principles will create a large time sink to which there is no recompense. A few have stated to have someone else look at the truck, I am with this group. It sounds like the issue could be resolved with possibly a turbo and an intercooler IFF; a bunch of FOD didn't go down the turbo oil drain and get ingested by the pump and installed into the main and rod bearings. So, if the oil is not silvery metallic looking, BMHenry could be back on the road telling us that his truck is back to normal.

 

[Redmega06]

First off I want to say I understand that one can't generalize when it comes to talents or character of the people invovled as I know that there are good and bad people know matter what we would discuss. My only problem is that they give the customer no faith at all in their abilities when they just condem the whole engine with out any investigation. Since everyone agrees it is going to be on the owners dime to fix this wouldn't it have been nice of them to try and minimize the cost. Unless they don't want anything to do with stuff not covered under warranty.



To another point made about whether or not you can know everything about everything with all different vehicles that is why theory should be taught and then specialties can be added later when you get on the job.

 

[JWadford]

stop flipping out and cut the engine oil filter open

 

[BMHenry]

****Offical update****



Ok weeks have passed on this issue and I have been going back to the district rep and dealership... They have changed their stance on this situation a total of 4 times now:



Orignal stance: That the failure was caused by a clogged airfilter. . I challenged this with a flow test and provided my concern with their diagnosis



Second Stance: They then shifted to the statement that this was indeed caused by a performance chip which caused the turbo to fail: Again I provided accurate infromation that disproved this stance as well



Third Stance: They informed me that the turbo failure was caused by the truck being low on oil by 12 qts... I informed them to look at my service history of oil having to be added to the truck every time it was in a dealership for maintaince, (no oil has have to been added to the engine to date) and my regular oil changes every 6k. And that this low oil was caused by the turbo failure. .





Now is the time that I ask for your help!! Help me disprove this stance please:



4th stance: Their final stance that they are taking is stating that the turbo failure was caused by over rev of the turbo itself... They stated that this was caused by my Silverline exhaust system and my aftermarket intake system (AFE Pro Guard 7). . The truck is equipped with a Jacobs exhause break, and I believe that this is another weak leg that they are trying to stand on. . Please advise on this. . Thank you.

 

[mwilson]

What sort of turbo failure was it?? Did the intake wheel or vanes shear off?

 

[BMHenry]

That I do not know. . from what I seen of the turbo, it looked like the veins came in contact with the wall. . They werent sheared off at the shat but looked busted off from contact with the walls, if that helps any...

 

[jgillott]

That I do not know. . from what I seen of the turbo, it looked like the veins came in contact with the wall. . They werent sheared off at the shat but looked busted off from contact with the walls, if that helps any...

I've sort of lost track of this thread since you first posted it... . So, is it indeed a complete engine failure or is that still not determined?

 

[BMHenry]

They have said that it has been determined that it is indeed a complete engine failure. . I believe they said that they did a tear down to the intercooler and that the intercooler needed to be relplaced. . I still do not know if they have looked past the heater grid...

 

[TBartlett1]

I feel that it was irresponsible for the dealer to say it was OK to drive it to them; did you talk to the janitor?

No service manager in their right mind would do that. For them to deny warranty because of an after market air filter or oil filter or even oil brand for that matter is ridiculous.

I think because of the mileage being so close to the limit of warranty coverage and the bad state of the company they will fight tooth & nail to deny you warranty.

You mite want to get some legal advice.





Just my thoughts!

 

[mwilson]

I don't see how they can say complete engine failure until they look at the other side of the charge air cooler and drop the rods and mains to see if there was any oil starvation. These Class 8 trucks eat turbos all the time, I have even seen the hot wheel come out through the 90 degree elbow under the muffler and still did not hurt the engine. The low oil is the concern in this case to me.

 

[GaryOwen]

I'm no expert, but, seems like the wastegate actuator should limit the turbo from over revving, irregardless of having less air restrictions in the intake and exhaust systems. Now if it could be proven the waste actuator failed first ...



Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can expand on this.

 

[Diesel Power]

I have an 05 3500 5. 9L. . I was going down the high way when the turbo blew. . Blue/White smoke everywhere. I called the dealership and asked if it was ok to drive to them, and they said yes. . on my way to them oil pressure dropped and I shut the motor down and got it towed... They looked at it and said that the turbo blew due to a clogged air filter. . It is a AFE Pro Guard 7. They came to this conclusion by visual inspection of the air filter only. . They said the that the motor would need a long block, turbo, intercooler ect... They have not done a compression test, pulled the head, or taken apart the intercooler. The only dissassembly that has occured is the intake to the turbo. The district manager has rulled this as a no warrenty issue. . The motor has 99,508... The truck did have an edge chip on it years ago, but i took it off at 45,000 miles. .



Please advise on what I can do to get them to reverse their decision. . The turbo blew in rush hour traffic doing about 45-50 mph in 6th gear. .



Any ideas and imput are welcome... This is going on the third week of no vehicle. .

If they cant proove that the airfilter caused the problem, then they cant legally cancel your warranty.



Besides it sounds like all you need is a new turbo and fresh oil and airfilter.

 

[BMHenry]

That is exactly what I was thinking Gary... If they are correct on their 4th conclusion unlike the other 3, That this is a result of over rev of the turbo, the wastegate should have prevented this... The turbos on these trucks do have waste gates correct? The only way to modify the pressure that they release at is to manually change it with wrenches in such correct?

 

[mwilson]

I don't know for sure with a "B" series failure, but I can tell you on a 60 Series Detroit Diesel or a C-15 Cat that an overboost condition most likely will shear the cold wheel off of the shaft. I have seen it many times as drivers will plug or pinch off the wastegate line for "A little more power". The hot wheel will over speed the cold wheel that is trying its best to compress way more air than it was designed for and will shear the shaft clean off.

With that being said it is possible that the wastgate actuator was faulty or rusted so it could not move.

Reach in the cold side of the turbo and see if the wheel is all afloat in there. It sounds like it might be.

 

[BMHenry]

I have not done any modifications to the wastegate. . I will dig into this possibility a little deeper... Thanks for the info so far guys... Keep the ideas flowing in. .

 

[Diesel Power]

is the district manager john kerry? lots of flip flopin around there:-laf

 

[BMHenry]

Diesel Power... . Lets keep it clean... As much as I love to discuss politics. . LOL... But yes a lot of filp flopping. . I wish I could get them to put it in writing... Then again for the 4th time now many trees have been saved. . LOL. .

 

[GaryOwen]

You might go to the Holset website and ask them if excess intake and exhaust flow would cause turbo to over rev.