1,300 Payload - Say it ain't so!!

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Ramtough

According to the door label on my '01 turbo diesel, the GVWR is 8,800#. On a recent trip, I weighed the truck. It tipped the scales at 7,500#. According to my precise calculations, this yields a payload rating of 1,300#.



I don't know if they make a 5th wheel trailer with only 1,300# of tounge weight, well maybe if it is under 20' long.



Am I missing something or do I have a wimp truck?

You just identified the critical weakness of the 3/4 ton truck insofar as towing a 5th wheel is concerned. Even though a hypothetical 2500 and 3500 may have the same GCVWR, the pin weight of a 5ver will put the 3/4 ton over its GVWR long before a 1 ton will face that situation. That's why we ordered our truck (since it's a 4x2, it has a 10,500 GVWR and 21,500 GCVWR) in the configuration shown to pull our 5ver. Even at that, we're running actuals of 10,380 GVW and 21,180 GCVW.



Rusty

 

[jbone]

rfielding, As you can see by my signature, I carry a little weight, but that EZ box sure did help sluggishness..... try it (you'll like it!!)

R, J. B.

 

[JGarcia]

I know this has been covered before, but can someone tell me, outside of the extra weight capacity of dual wheels, what components are significantly different between the 2500 and 3500?

 

[Mingoglia]

The 2500 has a Dana 70 when equipped with an automatic transmission. The 2500 has a Dana 80H just like the 3500 when equipped with a manual transmission. Everything else is the same as far as I'm aware. I'll claim ignorance just in case.

 

[Bob Wagner]

HERES A GOOD EXAMPLE

http://dieselram.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000022



Got Balls

 

[Snow man]

The dualy has larger rear brakes,heavier wheel bearings,and the axle assy is rated at 7500 or 8000 depending on model(pickup or cab& chassis),where as the 2500's axle is rated for 6084+6400 lbs depending on 245 or 265 tires. The important thing to remember is that no matter how much they can handle,they are only rated for 8800. I dont know if this is true,but im told that one day,every interstate toll booth will have a scale for commercial vehicles,as you cross it to get on the interstate,the computer will read your scan bar on your registration ,telling it your legal weight,if your not under it,you dont get on,and you get towed on the spot. The scale will allow them to keep the commercial traffic on the highway safer,as well as eliminate weigh stations. preventing approximately 3/4 of the blowouts and charge according to load every vehicle on the highway.

 

[Rob Thomas]

I dont know if this is true,but im told that one day,every interstate toll booth will have a scale for commercial vehicles,as you cross it to get on the interstate,the computer will read your scan bar on your registration ,telling it your legal weight,if your not under it,you dont get on,and you get towed on the spot. The scale will allow them to keep the commercial traffic on the highway safer,as well as eliminate weigh stations. preventing approximately 3/4 of the blowouts and charge according to load every vehicle on the highway.

I can't belive that, there's just waaaaaay to many entrance ramps to access the freeway, if they decide to do that, the country would go broke. I'm not callin' you a liar, I just think someone is pullin' yer leg.



Later, Rob

 

[Snow man]

I didnt believe it either,but I tohhought id pass this on since it was from a good source. Imagine the $$ it would generate in fines?

 

[dsather]

Well, this thread is very depressing. I'm all set to buy a friend of mines truck who's lease is up. It's a 2500 QC SLT 4x4 long bed. I want to put my pop up camper on it that weighs 1,700 lbs. All fired up and now I understand that the truck would weigh to much, or at least it would if there was a driver on board also. I looked up a lot of old threads and it sounds like this truck weighs about 7150 lbs without driver:{. I don't want a dualie and I want to stay with a 4x4 so it doesn't look like it will work.

A couple of questions,



1) does anyone know how much lighter a 2 wheel drive is on the same style truck?



2) Why would insurance not cover a truck that was overloaded when it will pay for accidents for people who are drunk, speeding, sleeping, bald tires, etc. ?



This last one is important. How would I find out for sure short of calling up my insurance company and asking them. Probably not a good idea to do that.

 

[BigMike]

dsather, A 2500 will easily handle a 1700 lb camper. There's zillions of them out there. However, everyone I know with a camper puts it on a dually or wishes they had. Stability, rather than weight concerns, is the primary reason.

 

[dsather]

BigMike,



Yea, I know the truck would handle it as I currently have it on a 93 F-250 4x4. It's a pop up and doesn't extend out the back of the bed. Works well and is very drivable. The only problem is with insurance. I can't drive around with a nice rig paying insurance knowing I wouldn't have any coverage if I get into a wreck. Can you imagine the liability?



Dennis

 

[klenger]

I have a 2500 equipped with the heaviest curb weight available. With the truck loaded at or slightly over GVWR, the suspension was still not riding on the overload springs. Why does DC even offer them if you can't use them. BTW, mine were removed when the dealer did the TSB to lower the rear end. Works great now. I believe that the 8800 lb rating has more to do with the class of the truck than the actual capaicity. Why is it that ALL 3. 4 ton trucks have a GVWR of 8800?



Have you ever looked at the ratings for a Dakota? The load capacity is about the same as a fully equipped 2500. Have you ever seen what a loaded Dakota looks like?

 

[dsather]

klenger,



I've never heard what the rating system is. I do know that the 3/4 ton Chevys GVWR is 9200 lbs. I wonder how they got away with it. I, like a lot of other people, wonder how Dodge can offer a camper package on their Cummins equipt 2500 QC LB 4x4 when you can't legally mount one on it. A puzzle. Wish I could find out about the insurance question though.



Dennis

 

[BigMike]

I don't think it's a legal issue or an insurance issue. To me the critical component is the axle and tires. I'm real careful not to exceed those. Otherwise, I'm pulling 13k with a GCVW 19750lbs, and it handles like it was empty and I can stop it on a dime. I'm not going to lose any sleep worrying that something is going to break or I'm not insured. Life is too short!! Live for the moment.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by dsather

Wish I could find out about the insurance question though.

Dennis,



Allow me to preface my remarks by saying that I'm an engineer by training, not a lawyer, but I've been involved in enough legal actions in my career to speculate that the biggest legal risk when exceeding manufacturer's weight ratings is in the civil arena.



Should you or I be involved in a traffic accident (consider the worst case - you slam into the side of a loaded 66 passenger school bus that pulls in front of you), you could theoretically face 67 individual lawsuits (66 kids + 1 driver). If I were the attorney representing one of the plaintiffs, I would attempt to put as much of the fault on you as possible - the more contributory fault attributed to you, the more you have to pay.



If you are running overloaded (pick a manufacturer's rating - GVWR, GCVWR, GAWR - doesn't matter), I'm going to attempt to persuade the jury that such overloaded operation is prima facie evidence of reckless operation at worst, or at least negligent operation. I'll make the case that, even though the bus driver ran a stop sign, you would have had a better chance to stop had you not been overloaded. Even if you couldn't stop, the fact that you were overloaded means your rig carried more kinetic energy into the collision and thus resulted in more severe damages and injuries than would have occurred had you not been overloaded.



Remember, this question won't be decided by engineers or truck drivers - it will be decided by 6 or 12 good citizens picked from the jury pool who probably have never pulled a trailer or driven a truck in their life. Also remember that they won't necessarily be deciding absolute guilt or innocence. Rather, their verdict will be more along the lines that you are 60% negligent and the bus driver is 40% negligent; therefore, you have to pay 60% of the judgement or damages awarded.



Even if your insurance pays, what is the cap on "per occurance" or "per individual"? Standard insurance won't be enough to cover 67 lawsuits!



Just something to consider... .



Rusty

 

[BigMike]

Get a multi million dollar umbrella policy and then go use your truck "safely" the way you want to. They aren't that expensive and cover what your standard insurance won't.

 

[InThinAir]

The insurance question/issue is puzzling to me



The company that insures my truck also insures my slide in camper. They have the model of the truck and the weight and size of the camper. I know because they asked specifically for it, State Farm.



Who is being negligent? Me for driving the truck past the rating or the insurance company who is taking my money knowing that it exceeds the gvwr.



I say that if you at fault in an accident you are in trouble anyway. So it doesn't matter if you have the camper on or not. But you are not negligent if exceed the manufacturer ratings and you are not at fault in an accident.



---Doug

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by InThinAir

But you are not negligent if (you) exceed the manufacturer ratings and you are not at fault in an accident.

Doug,



With all respect, you need to do some more reading on tort (civil) law and the concept of contributory negligence. Your statement is (IMHO) in error.



Rusty

 

[InThinAir]

I think that this would be a much more known liability loop hole. If you take a look at almost any regular vehicle. In my case I just looked at a nissan pathfinder. The GVWR is only 900 pounds more than dry curb weight. 21 gallons of gas at 7 pounds and seating for five and Bingo, you are over the gvwr. Not to mention the weight of any accessories.



I believe that a reasonable man standard would apply here. Otherwise he will have to get a trailer to go with my buddy to lunch in his Pathfinder



---Doug

 

[DRR-24V]

Just The Way It Is !!

In the 70s I investigated an accident where a guy in a full size Ford Bronco was towing a 26 ft. triple axle boat and trailer down an 8% grade, he lost it killing him and a passenger. I had never seen a boat this size being towed down the highway. I was very careful in the report as I figured someone would sue. I was right. I photographed the VIN plate on the door showing vehicle weight and how much that driver could legally tow. It was something like 5000 more than the Bronco. I weighed the boat and trailer at 26,000 lbs. !!! The Primary Collision Factor (what caused it) was clearly stated as a violation by the Driver of our unsafe load section. A Ford Motors Rep. met with me and said they would rather pay 1 Mill to the widow than take a chance on a CA. jury going wild. They paid the 1 Mill. without even going to court. I no longer worry about being overweight.