10,000+# GVW and DOT

[ox1]

Not sure that this is the right board to post this on or not -



I have heard for a while that the DOT was gunna start requiring ... something extree ??? ... . for over 10,000# GVW trucks. Not just "strait" trucks - but even our one tons. While I fingered that this would only apply to those of us with them liscenced as commercial vehicles - a chumm of mine in Indiana told me last fall that one of his chumms had gotten a letter from the State aboot his truck - and his isn't even registered as a commercail vehicle - but only as +10,000# truck!



Mine is tagged as commercial and I have gotten pinched for not having places to tie my existing safety chains down on my truck and not having class A CDL, no log book, and no physical card, among otherwhen pulling my 21,000 GVW gooseneck out of state and more than 150 miles from home in state.



Well a new twist this last cpl weeks - we are from Ohio, but doo prolly half our business in Michigan as we are only ten miles from the border. My wife puts on more miles on my truck than I doo - and a LOT more of the heavy loads - other than when the trailer is needed. She got pinched in Mich for no Cheufers (sp?) liscence, no medical card, no log book, no DOT numbers, no business name on the truck, and maybe a few other things? We doo have a flatbed on the truck - so it screams commercial! My truck is listed as 11,000 GVW - so it falls in these criterea.



Most of this is news to me as the few times that I have been pinched in the past - no-one ever made mention of needing DOT number or the name of the business on the truck unless the trailer was on. Then I was fingering on just getting my chumm to fix me up with a magnetic jobbie to only use on occasion. NOW - instead I had to have him letter the truck up right! In all honesty tho - it actually looks BETTER fully lettered than it did before IMO!



This only solidifies my decision to go up to the 450/4500 series truck next time. I thought that by sticking with the "1 ton" that I could stay under this crap! I have heard that Uncle Sam is on the push for the states to start enforcing this stuff - or like the seatbelt BS and the speed limit in some western states in the past - the Men in Black won't give the state their road funding. I'm thinkin' that the Feds have WAY too much pull! [But that's another thread one day eh?]





So - I am just giving y'all the heads up - if you hadn't heard of this before - as I certainly haven't. It cost us $170 for fines - and then GOD only knows what it will cost us in DOT compliance. - OH YEAH! She got tagged for no mounted Fire Extinguisher either. I guess it's just part of the vigilant socienty. If she sees a house'a'fire when going down the road - she can stop and put it out. LOL! Another thing was triangles. She couldn't find any. I had some under the pass seat. I knew they were in there - but it took a while to find them as the back seat is all ratchet straps, come-along, and edge protectors and such. I told her that last I knew that road flares were also acceptable instead of triangles and that we had a few of them in there. I asked her if she mentioned that she had them to the ocifer? She said HECK NO! Not w/o a fire extinguisher! LOL!



So now I am trying to finger out where to mount a fire extinguisher in this here '99? Right beside the seat near the rocker panel would be the logical place - but the bottom pocket on the door panel fits there. Oh well...



Now I have to wonder what aboot all the guys that have duallies now for hauling campers and towing toy trailers of various sorts? I can't imagine that they (anyone) currently make a 10,000 or less GVW dually. And the dual wheels sure makes for a much more stable truck with high gravity center loads. Gotta wonder if they will start to offer a dually tagged for 10K or if the camper guys will have to drop down to a less stable 3/4 ton? That will sure make our hwys safer eh? Would a lighter weight GVW dually be actually lighter duty - or same truck - just tagged for less weight?



[edit] We both got our physicals this morning and the stae of Ohio does NOT require a special liscence untill 26,001 or air brakes - whichever comes first - OR a combination vehicle with GVW of more than 10,000# combined. The Ohio DOT dude said that Mich has to accept this. Ohio has not had a "Cheaufers Liscence" for over 10 yrs when they went to the "CDL". I let mine laps when this happened. BOY did I screw up!



Also - some townships in Mich - as one that we doo deliveries to - require that your phone number is on the door and they ticket for this constantly! While I assume this to only apply with those registered in this township - we went ahead and added it on ours just fur chits and giggles.



Oh - and BTW - As for the physical? They couldn't care less if we were Heroin shooters - they wanted to make sure we didn't have sugar and that our tickers were set with Greenich Meantime I guess. He also asked if I had cronic back pain - which I answered "Of course I doo!" What kinda question was that? I work for a living - I have pains everywhere!

[/edit]

 

[BHolm]

Ox, This is what you get if you try to make money with your truck It really has nothing to do with the wieght. It has everything to do with being a commercial hauler. I used to run a few 1-tons in MN for my business. It started out pretty harmless, we used to let about anybody drive the loads. Then as you describe they started getting picky. As you found out they get extra picky when you cross state lines. You had better also find out if you need federal fuel tax stickers. All the stuff you listed, fire ext, triangles, dot number, business info, license, log books, physical is unique to commercial haulers. If you don't do it for profit, you don't need any of that stuff. I just hauled my gooseneck from CO to MN and back. I was 14,460lbs empty and scaled at 23,900lbs loaded. I drove by every weigh station with no problem. Those with big campers do the same. I guess they figure if you do it for profit, you must be rich enough to jump through all these hoops. We both know better than that The next thing you will find out is that they will find something EVERY time they stop you. The rules are a moving target. It took me a couple of years to get it 99% right. I even had a ticket once because we had the wrong version of the commercial plate. Since we hauled wide loads under permit we needed a different letter tag than standard, how crazy is that rule? Good Luck out there, don't let the man drag you down.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

You will also need a first aid kit.

 

[MMeier]

Don't forget your single state registration either!! Rumor also has it come 01/07 that they will start the same BS with 3/4 ton trucks, so all you smartdonkeys that bought a single wheel truck just for the 9,999# rule now have a reason to buy a dually!! :-laf

 

[BHaden]

I haven't heard much lately, but my Brother-in-law drives an 18 wheeler for Yellow Freight. He heard that in Kalifornia they were going to start a crackdown on some of the humongous recreational rigs seen more and more frequently. Like the 70 foot, 60,000 lb motorhome/toybox combos rolling down the road with Grandpa driving and some of the larger 3 axle trailers being pulled by 1 tons. He's talking air brake certifications, where applicable, some kind of modified class B license or training course, and a crackdown on axle weight maximums. If true it is just one more piece of evidence that I was right to buy a place in AZ to retire to in a few years. I feel for him, though, when talking about some of the really big units. I'll bet most of those people have no idea of the physics involved in husseling that much weight down the road

 

[ox1]

Ox, This is what you get if you try to make money with your truck It really has nothing to do with the wieght.



That was my one point - that is NOT the only criteria anymore as it seems. Like I said - my chumm in Indiana has a chumm that got a letter from the state with regard to his truck - and his was NOT registered as commercial - just over 10K. This means that any truck over 10K could soon be subject to it as this seems to be comming down from the top and not really a state by state issue.



I have not heard any rumours aboot 3/4 tons. ???



I am sure that there are plenty of other +10K trucks from Indiana on here - hard to believe no-one has piped in yet?







The next thing you will find out is that they will find something EVERY time they stop you.



Oh - No doubt! I am sure that if nothing else - we could get wrote up fur not having matching colour bed and cab. (Red truck w/black flatbed... . ) I am sure it is there somewhere - may take them a while to find it - but it's prolly there somewheres.



We just let them write us up fer seatbelts and then they feel that they have done their job and go off proudly. So far that is not a moving violation. ... yet...

 

[CDonaldson]

A couple months ago I tried to bring up all these issues and everyone pretty much shot me down, lots of sarcasm and such, effectively everyone told me I was full of it.



There are many issues regarding # of axles on vehicle, # of axles on trailer being towed, private regular licenses state 3-axles in combination-your dually is considered a 3-axle in some states, especially on turnpikes. All of the states are finally beginning to comply with the fed DOT regs. The gov is making them get it into gear and standardized so all states have the same rules.



What's printed on the back of your license may no longer apply, all states when you sign on the dotted line for your drivers license have a clause that says you are responsible to know the annual updates or changes to your license, might be a good idea to go to the DMV and get the latest handbook or read the one on your state website.



CD

 

[BHolm]

As of a month ago, the last time I checked, MN,IA,NE,SD,ND and CO were all willing to let me run about whatever I wanted so long as it was a private haul, ie; I owned what I was hauling. This is from the various states vehicle enforcement divisions. The policies today are the same they were two years ago(the first time I checked), in these states at least.



I would fully expect the east and west coast states to be the first trying to revenue us with new rules. So it sure COULD be coming, but I have yet to see these rumoured changes.



In CO they don't even tag vehicles by weight, just truck and trailer tags. They TAX my truck and trailer by empty weight, but so far no questions about gross weights. In MN where I used to live the tags corresponded to the gross weight you were licensed to carry. In every case I was able to choose the tags, they were never related to actual rated capacities. At DOT stops they were always more concerned about faulty or missing equipment, I don't think I ever had to scale a loaded 1-ton for them. I certainly never got a weight ticket even though we were often over the trucks combined rating. I was always under the licensed weight though. I don't want to hear how it is about safety, it is about money, just another excuse to bleed us dry IMO.



They are going to start a firestorm among RV users if they try to force commercial type rules. I just don't think it will happen on a national scale.

 

[BStoecker]

Not sure on the whole commercial vs. non-commercial issue, but I fully agree that there needs to be some required training for people pulling trailers over some set length, or even set the length based on overall length of rig and trailer. Any moron can buy a 1500/2500/3500 and a 52' race trailer and head down the highway having never pulled a trailer in his/her life. Sorry, but my driver's ed class taught me nothing about pulling a trailer...



On the commercial part, it is BS if they are going to force me to have commercial registration to hook up my 2-car GN to haul MY Jeeps to the trail. I'm no where near MAKING money by doing it. I have heard of states cracking down on weekend racers that compete for money. They are commercial haulers according to the code and need the whole works to be legal, including MSDS sheets if they are carrying over a certain amount of race fuel, etc...



No matter what you do, or where you go, you will be breaking a law of some kind.

 

[BHaden]

Not sure that this is the right board to post this on or not -



I have heard for a while that the DOT was gunna start requiring ... something extree ??? ... . for over 10,000# GVW trucks. Not just "strait" trucks - but even our one tons. While I fingered that this would only apply to those of us with them liscenced as commercial vehicles - a chumm of mine in Indiana told me last fall that one of his chumms had gotten a letter from the State aboot his truck - and his isn't even registered as a commercail vehicle - but only as +10,000# truck!



As of yesterday I have reason to re-visit this topic!!

I'm, hopefully, going to pick up my new MegaCab this Sat. I got the VIN

and the code for GVWR is "M" which, according to the Service Manual CD chart is "10,001-14,000lb". I thought I was getting a 9900lb GVWR, which is fine for my intended use. It will be registered in Arizona. OPINIONS please. Am I stuck with what amounts to a medium duty truck rating or can I register it as "9900" with ADOT? Having some knowledge before I do the paperwork would be nice. Thanks.

 

[MMeier]

Not sure that this is the right board to post this on or not -



I have heard for a while that the DOT was gunna start requiring ... something extree ??? ... . for over 10,000# GVW trucks. Not just "strait" trucks - but even our one tons. While I fingered that this would only apply to those of us with them liscenced as commercial vehicles - a chumm of mine in Indiana told me last fall that one of his chumms had gotten a letter from the State aboot his truck - and his isn't even registered as a commercail vehicle - but only as +10,000# truck!



As of yesterday I have reason to re-visit this topic!!

I'm, hopefully, going to pick up my new MegaCab this Sat. I got the VIN

and the code for GVWR is "M" which, according to the Service Manual CD chart is "10,001-14,000lb". I thought I was getting a 9900lb GVWR, which is fine for my intended use. It will be registered in Arizona. OPINIONS please. Am I stuck with what amounts to a medium duty truck rating or can I register it as "9900" with ADOT? Having some knowledge before I do the paperwork would be nice. Thanks.

How big of an trailer will you be hauling?

 

[BHaden]

Hoping to keep it in the 8-10,000 range. Not sure if I want a 5th wheel or bumper pull. I have a nice Leer shell that I like for the secure storage it provides and a 5th wheel wouldn't work with it. I'm also trying to avoid a 3 axle trailer, for a variety of reasons. This all may change as the trailer is a year or 2 down the road.

Maybe the "dual rear wheel" option put it in the higher weight category?

 

[steved]

First:



DOT doesn't care whether you are commercial or non-commercial, they like to hand tickets and are not discriminating... I have been dipped several times in the midwest in my travels in my PERSONAL 2500 ram (running completely empty to boot). I was stopped once for a "trailer inspection", which amounted to whether it was over loaded, secured properly, or hitched properly... this was me towing an empty 750# trailer with a 2500 truck?



DOT is in a "72 hour Inspection" blitz currently, they are pulling EVERYTHING over including personal vehicles overloaded, 1/2 ton PUs with trailers, RVs, EVERYTHING... I'm still amazed I made it 380 miles without getting stop lastnight towing my 5x8 trailer load of gravely tractors... and that was through 3 states!!!!! Just today, I witnessed the "grampa in the motorcoach" being pulled over... DO YOU NEED AN AIRBRAKE ENDORSEMENT IN AN RV????



Second:



Hate to tell ALL OF YOU this, and I have preached this before and was also told I was full of it... IF YOU TOW COMMERCIALLY OVER 10K, YOU COULD NEED A CLASS "A" LICENSE!!!! Even those of you "getting away with it" by law should be running at least a class "C" for "Commercial Vehicles under 26,000 pounds"... and then following all the guidelines (logbook, physical, sleep/drive hours... )



My Class "A" CDL has gotten me through a few "pinches" on the road... even though I haven't actually used the license in over 6 years... getting pulled over for the trailer and handing the trooper my license resulted in a "Oh, you're OK. Thank you sir. " :-laf



I already pay through the nose for this truck... $153/year for registration... $55 more per year, all for an extra 200 pounds... (8800#GVW 1999 ram 2500 to 9kGVW 2004. 5 ram)... that the truck doesn't even handle as well!!!



steved

 

[plowking]

We have had this discussion in N. H. for a while. My professional association had a D. O. T. officer come in to give us a presentation on regulations. My industry uses large trucks, but some of us go intrastate or interstate, and that is where apportioned plates and D. O. T. numbers come into place. The officer said they were stopping landscapers for trailer gvw, tiedowns, endorsements on license if needed. An interesting point was made that a emergency vehicle[ fire truck] could be driven by a person with out endorsement in a emergency only, but that same truck would require a CDL licensed driver on a non emergency. The State Website will show sites or links to get that state's R. S. A. 's. I joined the local Motor Transportation Association and joined their drug consortium to be in complaince and they send me newsletter and updates and access to buy materials. plowking

 

[steved]

An interesting point was made that a emergency vehicle[ fire truck] could be driven by a person with out endorsement in a emergency only, but that same truck would require a CDL licensed driver on a non emergency.

This must vary state-to-state as PA exempts fire fighters from a CDL... they can get a waiver for the CDL.



steved

 

[JimDay]

Just got pulled over to day coming in to Texas from Arkansas by DOT. I was pulling an empty forty foot float. They were checking tanks for dyed fuel. They told me that I needed an IFTA sticker for having a diesel truck and trailer with two axles. I'm running Texas farm tags on both. They were the nicest officers, I have ever delt with. Didn't even give me a warning. Looking up IFTA stickers, the only diesel trucks exempted from IFTA are RVs.

 

[CBrabec]

What is an "IFTA" sticker?

 

[MMeier]

What is an "IFTA" sticker?

IFTA= International Fuel Tax Agreement... . basically another way for the states to get some more coin out of your pocket every quarter. Have my stickers on my signs for my truck!

 

[ox1]

Hate to tell ALL OF YOU this, and I have preached this before and was also told I was full of it... IF YOU TOW COMMERCIALLY OVER 10K, YOU COULD NEED A CLASS "A" LICENSE!!!!



... that's 10K COMBINED GVW and for business purposes. And YES - pulling a race car DOES count - as I specifically asked once before.



Seein's how my truck is 11K GVW, I would have to tow a trailer with at least a -1000#GVW to be in the clear. My combined is 32K.



I have gotten pinched for the class A before. So far I tow less frequently - and generally closer to home since my luck ran out a few yrs ago and I started get'n nabbed. Right now I feel that the fines every few yrs are cheaper and less hassel than the endorsement. One day I may go for it just so's I don't have to worrie aboot it tho.

 

[jimnance]

A lot depends on the state. There may be some truth that the DOT is selectively stopping RV's and the like, but their primary focus remains trucking for hire.



Each state has it's own unique regulations pertaining to RV's and even 3/4 ton trucks.



For example, in Oregon, if your truck actually weighs over 8,000 lbs when loaded it technically requires a commercial plate. They don't enfore it except for folks that are obviously using their trucks for commercial purposes, contractors, landscapers, etc. , but that is the way the law is written. The difference in cost is $200. 00/yr for the commercial license compared to $55. 00 for two years on a normal plate.



Another odd quick pertains to RV's. Turns out anyone can pull a RV fifth wheel in Oregon with a Class 8 Tractor (Big Rig) with only a regular Class C license. However, if you disconect from the RV fifth wheel and bob-tail somewhere you need a Class A license. Go figure????



Anyway, each state is different. Kalifornia is extra special different, but I won't go there.....