15/40 oil in 2022 cause engine damage?

[AH64ID]

The spec sheet says "...and, where appropriate, gasoline engines calling for any of the following specs.." which they then list. They also list gasoline engine service life as 2X. No idea what the oil specs are for the Vortec 350 though. 12V98 probably checked ahead of using that oil. Unless "his buddy" told him to use it.

I misread it. I read SN+ as the only gas rating, which is only for the DHD... which did surprise me, since their diesel oils were always dual rated in the past. Fixed my post.

 

[Newsa]

The CGI sounds a bit fragile in relation to the oil viscosity. Top end requires thinner oil. Bottom end can tolerate oil viscosity down to 10/30.

The rhetorical question at hand is what happens when the oil viscosity changes as the emissions system goes through several active regens? I would expect the oil viscosity of 10/30 (or 5/40) to gradually thin if there is any fuel dilution in the sump. I wonder if any aftermarket companies would offer a larger capacity oil pan (5 gal ish). If I did an oil analysis and saw 4%-5% fuel dilution in the sump, I would be concerned. If the viscosity went down closer to 0w20 or 5w20, that doesn't comply with the recommended weight.

 

[AH64ID]

The CGI sounds a bit fragile in relation to the oil viscosity. Top end requires thinner oil. Bottom end can tolerate oil viscosity down to 10/30.

The rhetorical question at hand is what happens when the oil viscosity changes as the emissions system goes through several active regens? I would expect the oil viscosity of 10/30 (or 5/40) to gradually thin if there is any fuel dilution in the sump. I wonder if any aftermarket companies would offer a larger capacity oil pan (5 gal ish). If I did an oil analysis and saw 4%-5% fuel dilution in the sump, I would be concerned. If the viscosity went down closer to 0w20 or 5w20, that doesn't comply with the recommended weight.

No more "fragile" than the pre-CGI motors. The ISB has always been authorized to run 5w-30 by Cummins, so long as it meets the minimum HTHS specs. The flat tappets used up until 2019 are picky about oil too, they need a good oil to prevent premature wear.

Any oil will thin with fuel dilution, it doesn't matter if its a 30, 40, or 50wt. You can't run a thicker oil and keep it longer with fuel in it as the oil breaks down from the fuel. Active regen puts very little fuel into the oil on the 13+ trucks.

The recommended weight is at installation, the engineers that spec oils and grades are well aware of what happens to oil as it's used. The OCI is based on that, no need to overthink it.

 

[Newsa]

Interesting read here from a diesel tech. He probably hadn't worked on many 2019+ when this was written, as it was written in 2020.

He generally disagrees with manufacturer recommended OCI and says that he has seen some oil-related failures.

He does confirm almost all of what John said, and part of what I said.

Cooler seasonal ambient temps in Canada may contribute to the fuel dilution that he is seeing (especially with long idle times). And he doesn't differentiate between the 2010-2012 which were more known for fuel dilution as compared to the 2013+ that do experience fuel dilution, but to a lesser degree

Question: Didn't the 2002-2012's ISB have a shorter OCI (less than 15k?)

https://xlmechanicalservice.ca/technical-info/cummins-oil-change-interval/

 

[AH64ID]

Some earlier ISB's did have a shorter OCI, but oil and fuel spec's were different too. A lot has changed with both since 2002.

My 05 had up to 15K miles or 6 months, that dropped when the 6.7 came out.

12 months wasn't an OEM OCI until 2019.

 

[endoscott]

Man that guy recommends intervals like we used to use on our old gas engines, 3500-5000. Really surprised to see that and wondering if he just saw a couple of 6.7 outliers, like modified or abused trucks. I have always gone by the book and had changes done by dealer, 6 month interval on our 2014. Now that we are our own warranty station I was thinking of going to one year interval, which for us is always less than 10,000 miles. Maybe I should stick with 6 months, dunno. Maybe I will do analysis next oil change.

 

[06 Dodge]

Below is a link to Cummins oil test kits page, it list test kits for oil, coolant an diesel fuel... At this time of you want a kit with TBN you will have to ask to be notified when those kits are back in stock, what's nice is when buying direct from Cummins you can buy the oil test kits at a lower price ($16.17 per kit with TBN, $13.14 without) then what other sell them for ($26 up with TBN) and you can get free shipping on orders over $75.00 or pay approx. $5.00 to ship 2 test kits, even with paying $5 shipping it's still much cheaper to use Cummins kits then what Blackstone charges $35 for basic or $45 with TBN: https://shop.cummins.com/CSSNAStore/s/categories/a224N000007v0yRQAQ/cummins-fluid-analysis

 

[Newsa]

Man that guy recommends intervals like we used to use on our old gas engines, 3500-5000. Really surprised to see that and wondering if he just saw a couple of 6.7 outliers, like modified or abused trucks. I have always gone by the book and had changes done by dealer, 6 month interval on our 2014. Now that we are our own warranty station I was thinking of going to one year interval, which for us is always less than 10,000 miles. Maybe I should stick with 6 months, dunno. Maybe I will do analysis next oil change.

Well, he does speak of EGR and Exhaust gas treatment (DPF), so I thought he was seeing many stock trucks that haven't been deleted and are not chipped or programmed to spray more. Still, good point, because if they are chipped/programmed to inject more fuel, you'd be crazy to keep following an OCI for a stock truck.

 

[endoscott]

Yeah, interesting, I think I will do oil analysis next change. 06 Dodge, thanks for that link.

 

[Newsa]

Yeah, interesting, I think I will do oil analysis next change. 06 Dodge, thanks for that link.

Oil analysis has some value. However, when I sent in an unused sample of Redline (synthetic) 15/40 for analysis it came back as highly oxidized. It was honey colored unused oil straight from a just opened bottle. A search online will show that several labs will tell you that Redline synthetics always give a false positive on oxidation tests

Obviously that class V oil is waaayy different than all other motor oils right down to the base oil. So their marketing dept us not lying when they say it is different than all the rest.

One UOA will tell you some things, but it is better to have a series of them to see trends.

 

[AH64ID]

Our local Cummins recommends UOA thru OAI testing. Last I looked their kits are in stock, and have better/cheaper resutls that Blackstone.

Still, good point, because if they are chipped/programmed to inject more fuel, you'd be crazy to keep following an OCI for a stock truck.

Compleatly depends on how they are tuned. My 05 made quite a bit more power than stock, and was also much easier on oil than stock programming.

 

[06 Dodge]

Yeah, interesting, I think I will do oil analysis next change. 06 Dodge, thanks for that link.

FYI once you get your Cummins kit go online follow the directions an request to setup an online account its free, do this before you mail in your oil sample, also it cost $3.65 to mail in my own 5 oz envelope. Once they received my sample in UT I had the test results within 72 hours...

 

[Tuesdak]

The rhetorical question at hand is what happens when the oil viscosity changes as the emissions system goes through several active regens? I would expect the oil viscosity of 10/30 (or 5/40) to gradually thin if there is any fuel dilution in the sump.

The wildcard and only concern here is if you start running BioDiesel blends over 5%. Again AZ requires ALL Diesel, even Red Dye, to have 5% BioDiesel in it. It's a quick and dirty way to increase lube in the fuel, but, that's not the reason our clueless lawmakers require it. My 2018 owner's manual limits me to 5% BioDiesel blends before I become my own warranty station.

I ran B99 in the past on Pre-DEF Diesels. The 2008 Duramax we had with a DPF only would experience thinner oil on the UOA. The lab did not detect the BioDiesel contamination of the oil. Yet it was several quarts high and triggering low oil pressure stop engine alarms. This was in 121F heat, towing up extreme grades, etc. The alarm tripped during a "P" to "D" shift after unhooking the trailer just getting back from the delivery route. We had left it idle to keep the A/C cold when unhooking. Sure no DEF so a lot of EGR was used to control NOx and this soots up the DPF faster requiring more regens than modern DEF systems.

I have no experience on how bad light duty use is with high % BioDiesel fuel blends on oil contamination. I would guess it would be worse with colder temps (Vs high load towing) on everything.

Some V8's have a 9th injector now for DPF cleaning. The Cummins does not have a 7th injector. So the high % BioDiesel crankcase oil contamination is still a concern for Cummins owners.

 

[Learjet]

I don't know if you ever saw this in the manual...decrease oil change interval...but fuel filter 16,000?


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then look at second page...20,000 ???


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[AH64ID]

I don't know if you ever saw this in the manual...decrease oil change interval...but fuel filter 16,000?


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Click For Full-Size Image.

then look at second page...20,000 ???


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What vehicle is that for? Looks like that's the 3.0L ecodiesel.

Your 2017 CTD has a max interval of 15K miles for oil and fuel filters with B0-B5, and 12,500 miles for the OCI with B6-B20.

The manual also states the truck must have been ordered with the B20 option, but I haven't seen that as an ordering option. Any idea what it is?

 

[Learjet]

What vehicle is that for? Looks like that's the 3.0L ecodiesel.

Your 2017 CTD has a max interval of 15K miles for oil and fuel filters with B0-B5, and 12,500 miles for the OCI with B6-B20.

The manual also states the truck must have been ordered with the B20 option, but I haven't seen that as an ordering option. Any idea what it is?

It was in my packet when I bought my truck new...It was just a couple of additional pages....who know what it is for.

 

[AH64ID]

It was in my packet when I bought my truck new

The diesel supplement in 2017 covers the 3.0L diesel in 1500's and the 6.7 in 2500/3500/4500/5500. I'm pretty sure that you're looking at the 3.0L section.

 

[Learjet]

The diesel supplement in 2017 covers the 3.0L diesel in 1500's and the 6.7 in 2500/3500/4500/5500. I'm pretty sure that you're looking at the 3.0L section.

Nope...just went look again since those picture are from several years ago....it's a separate card and those pictures are the front and back of the card that was with my owners manuals.

 

[AH64ID]

Nope...just went look again since those picture are from several years ago....it's a separate card and those pictures are the front and back of the card that was with my owners manuals.

Well the service intervals are not 6.7 Cummins, so I am not sure what to tell you other than it doesn't apply to your truck. You were given data for something else, which is also covered by the diesel supplement you should have received with your owners manual (that card likely went with all diesel supplements, regardless of the truck it went with). Compare the verbiage to the 3.0 section and the 6.7 section. Then compare it to the current, and up to date, diesel supplement on Ram's website. Specifically look at pages 82 and 83, which are in the 3.0 section... then compare them to pages 206 and 207 in the 6.7 section.

https://vehicleinfo.mopar.com/assets/publications/en-us/Ram/2017/3500/2036.pdf

 

[Learjet]

you sold me ..deleting pics and throwing away card