1977 Ford Crewcab 4X4 with Cummins power (hopefully)

[KellyClark]

Here's the deal, I have a 1977 1/2 Ford F250 Crew Cab 4X4. It has Dana 60's front and rear, a 6" lift with 37" tires, and is currently powered by a 460 (which is now for sale).



I just bought, on ebay, a '04 Cummins HPCR HO with an NV 5600 with 10k for $4000. The wrecking yard had the auction labeled as a "Ram Cummings" which I suspect is why I was able to get it so cheaply.



Anyways, here are my questions:



Where can I obtain wiring diagrams?



What should I use for a fuel system? What lines should I use? I was thinking aluminum with AN fittings (what size)? I want an external fuel pump because I still need to source a fuel tank that's not galvanized, maybe plastic? (if anyone has one cheap, let me know ).



Will my new four core Ford radiator (1977 gas motor application) be sufficient?



Can a 2wd NV5600 be converted to 4wd? If not, does anyone want to trade?





I know it's a lot to ask, but I'm anxious to drive this beast!! I will definitely have tons MORE questions as I progress. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Kelly

 

[lcaad1249]

I'll help with the questions I can.



I'd use a FASS fuel system. It comes with all the fuel lines needed.



Use a divorced Transfer Case and just have a driveshaft between the transmission and the transfer.

 

[Scot]

I am running the stock tanks. They do not appear to be galvanized.



It looked to me like the stock radiator would have taken too much room because of tits slant and thickness. A '93 Dodge radiator fit between the core support on 1 of 3 of the ones I had. The others missed by <1/4" They could have been made to fit. My gallery should answer some questions.

 

[KellyClark]

I bought a hydroboost brake system from a Chevy CUCV military truck. Hope it works.



For the fuel system, I think I'll use the FASS as you suggested. I'll probably put in a plastic replacement tank from a 78-79 bronco (33 gallons).



What intercooler will fit the best? I'm not against ordering a custom sized one, but I don't know who makes them. Any help here would be appreciated. I'll also try Piers Diesel. They have a 78 crewcab with a "custom" intercooler and the stock Ford radiator.



It turns out my NV5600 is a 4X4!! The NP205 adapter is about $500



Also got a set of 38" Michelin XZL military tires. I've always liked 'em.



Still have a LONG ways to go. Wish me luck.



Kelly

 

[Scot]

Well best fit would be a first gen Dodge i/c but small means less efficient.



I used a second gen and turned it upside down.

 

[JPihl]

I recently completed a '95 12V repower of my '75 F-250. I used the large "desert cooler" 460 radiator with the big top tank. My cooling system holds ~5. 5 Gallons. I have not had any heating issues yet, but I'm towing the 5th wheel up to the mtns. this weekend for the 1st time; I'll let you know how it does.



I'm running a 2wd 47RH auto. behind my Cummins and using the original Ford NP205 divorced T-case behind it. I had to move the t-case back 8 inches because of the long length of the 47RH. This setup has worked well so far. You may be able to use a divorced 205 behind your NV5600 without having to relocate it since it's shorter.



I used the all aluminum Powerstroke intercooler. It fits, but it's tight. I had to cut away the back of the grill shell, cut some notches in the rad. support and fabricate a new bracket for the hood latch to make it work.



My 12V is *LOUD* inside the cab, although I've still got some soundproofing to do.



Jeff

 

[KellyClark]

The engine came today. the shifter is broken, fan clutch bent, and the p/s pump is broken off. A piece of the timing cover broke off with the p/s pump. AND the intake elbow is broken off. That's going to set me back$$$$. Also, it now appears to be a 2wd transmission. GRRRRRR! Oh well, it was still a good deal.



thanks for the I/C suggestions. Scot, did you have to cut away the back of the grill and grill shell?



jphil, try "quietcar", it's expensive, but if half of the hype is true, its worth it. I've heard lots of great things about it. I'm going to order the big kit. 10 gallons of material and the sprayer for about $500. Not cheap, but it will be easier to do it while the engine is out. The old trucks are noisy enough with the steel inner fenders and no insulation on the hood. I bought the later model HPCR specifically for noise issues.

 

[Scot]

Yes I had to cut the grill shell. You loose the two tabs on the side that originally mounted the grill center. The bottom of the shell required minor cutting. The center is made from 1/2" square tubing except for the very ends of outer ring that enden up solid because I could not bend the radius without crimping.



If the 5600 is the same as the 4500, you ought to be able to buy a mainshaft and 4x4 tailshaft housing and be in business.

 

[KellyClark]

I'm using a divorced t-case, there doesn't seem to be any other way to run a Ford NP205 behind this trans. I spoke with the tech at drivetrain.com, he told me the entire case for NV5600 2wd is different than the 4wd. I can get a divorced T-case for about $100, and build a driveshaft pretty cheaply, around another $100. My truck is a crewcab, so length shouldn't be an issue. Fabricating shifters will be a pain though.



My buddy, who works in a shop that does diesel upgrades, scored me a new intake elbow, an intercooler out of a '96 Ford, and all the silicone hoses, clamps, etc. That's what friends are for!



I'll use the stock fuel tank for now. I installed a Carter electric booster pump to feed my 460, and it should work to supply the Cummins. I'll upgrade to the FASS later.



Does anyone know where the TPS on a '04 is located?? I didn't seem to get it with my engine.

 

[DWitcher]

You MUST post pictures of this build up .

 

[KellyClark]

Pulled the motor and front clip this weekend. We took the motor, trans and transfer case out in one piece. Ready to start measuring, cutting and welding to make room for the Cummins .



Still not sure where the TPS is located on this motor. I called a local Dodge dealership, the said they don't have wiring diagrams .

 

[DavidWhite]

I too will start a 78 Ford crew conversion soon, and will be watching your thread closely. I just picked up an 01 Cummins w/5sp & xfer case. curios on what to do for the clutch pedal assy. I'm also looking @ the Michelin XL & XZL 11:00/16's. The Military surplus dealer near my office just got a dozen pallets or so of them.

 

[TKingsbury]

I believe that engine is fully drive-by-wire, meaning it has an electronic throttle pedal assy. It is my understanding that the 03(?) HPCR had a cable type throttle that ran a remote tps, but they changed that in 04. Not 100% sure though.

Travis. .

 

[backroad]

I ran into a lot of surprises also with my "donor wreck"..... including the fan, oil pan and my entire transmission (auto).

I wish I had gone with a later motor though. The power difference and driveability between my '93 and your '04 is extreme. I'm still fighting a gutless Cummins problem.

I don't know how the earlier truck will accept the Cummins at the firewall. I didn't have to cut it, but I did have to do some gentle 5lb reshaping to allow the rocker cover to be removed.

BE Patient above all things, but not as patient as I was. I took several yeas to work in the time, but It's all be fun. My jeep projects have suffered greatly.

 

[backroad]

Note to above post... ... ..... Ya might want to remove the exhaust manifold while the motor is still out. They're real prone to seizing the manifold bolts when you try to remove them. Believe me when I tell you that they are a bunch easier to work with out of the truck and also it's a good time to drive the exhaust manifold for the Pyro sensor, (if you want it pre-trubo)..... I also flipped my exhaust manifold over to raised the turbo position higher to clear the heater/ac stuff. If you do this you will also need to modify the oil drain line from the turbo to the motor.


The FlowerSmoke intercooler is way cool instead of anything Dodge has used.

 

[BManier]

figured I'd answer the TPS question. I just got an 03' and the TPS is on the upper right of the motor it is fly by wire to the computer but is cable to that point. On 04' I was told it was cable to a TPS on mounted on the firewall somewhere. I'll be posting pictures. I'm in the prossess of putting that 03' in a 78 F250 supercab, with 8' bed. I'm also useing Fass for the fuel, and as far as the coolers I'm planning on spending an afternoon at the junk yard measureing. I'll let you know what I find.

 

[KellyClark]

Found the TPS, or APPS. It's on the fender, beneath the battery. I'll just buy a new one from Dodge. Also found out the lift pump on my motor is mounted on the side of the fuel filter, so I don't need to buy a pump... . yet. We mounted the motor this weekend. Fabbed mounts out of plate. We had to cut the crossmember down to almost nothing to make room for the A/C compressor. The power steering pump won't clear the steering box in its present location. We're probably going to move it to the top, in front of the intake manifold. I'm going to use a 1" body spacer kit to make some room so we can move the engine back another 2-3 inches. Right now, there's no room for the radiator. Moving the engine back presents another problem, because the huge plastic fan hits the steering box. I'm going to use the steering box out of a 1979 F150. The F250 box mounts inside the frame, the F150 box mounts on the outside. I already converted my truck to crossover steering, so I'll need a new drag link when I swap the steering box. The input/outputs on my radiator are on the wrong sides, so I have to take it to a radiator shop to get them switched. We built a trans crossmember out of a piece of 1. 5" tubing inside of a 1. 75" tubing, then used a tubing bender to shape it. Has plenty of clearance for the big exhaust and my front driveshaft. Just a few

minor problems so far. Can't wait to start the wiring. Right now I'm planning to run all the stock Ford gauges, but I still need to find a way to run a Tach, EGT. Will post pics soon.

 

[KellyClark]

here's some pics. You can see how much of the crossmember we cut out. We're going to fab a new one.

 

[KellyClark]

some more pics

 

[KellyClark]

Here's Ray welding up the transmission crossmember. We put the front clip on to check the clearances. Too bad my radiator doesn't fit. I'm probably going to buy a custom aluminum job.