1978 Crew Cab 4x4

[Nordby]

I finally got serious enough and far enough along in the process of

repowering my 1978 F250 Crew Cab 4x4 that it was time to start a topic

to document it - and ask questions/get advice. It really is now an

F350 since I stole the Dana 60 from a 1979 F350 4x4, but KickinY2K and Scot

already have dibs on the "1978 Ford F350" name, and they are already

driving it!



I want to start by saying thanks to the incredible resource TDR is,

and the quality of folks that are members (and the many more who read

that are future members!). I would never have considered doing this

conversion without the collective knowledge in these forums.



A disclaimer: This is gonna take a while. I have too many

time-consuming hobbies (reining horses and mountain bikes) that

compete with my love of old F*RD trucks. Oh, and of course a job

to pay for it all. Please be patient, over time,

I'll post progress, pictures, and problems/solutions. I know I'll be

asking tons of questions from folks who've done this before too.



The Project: Put a 6bt in my 1978 F250 Crew 4x4. I bought this truck

for the sheer purpose of semi-restoring it, and with the idea in the back

of my mind to put a CTD in it eventually. What pushed me over the

edge was the torch/erector set motor mounts someone used to mount a

460 in there (1978's had 400M's) that came off with one good swing

with a sledge. Couple that with low compression in #7 and #8, and I'd

rather put my rebuild money into a 6bt that doesn't need building yet!

Plus more, reliable power and mileage.



Pictures, questions, and progress to follow. Hopefully I can

contribute useful info along the way.



Attached is the work in progress. Sorry for the blur and bad light, it is always late, after sniffing paint fumes and





Thanks, jon

 

[Nordby]

Here is the donor. It is (was!) a 1997 Club Cab 4x4. A tdr member (who can pipe in if he wants) was nice enough to ensure this truck was hit on the side, not on the front. Most of the wrecks (on ebay, and elsewhere) seem to have the front smashed - so the intercoolers, fans, etc are cooked.



Tons of adventure getting this thing - mostly due to a borrowed flatbed and lending out my 1992 Dodge. My plug was bad, so fixed it. The trailer was cobbled up to a flat 4 for my friends new truck (but it really is a 7-round for brakes and hot wire, gooseneck style), so I rewired that. The spare was locked on, It poured buckets and stopped traffic on I-25 (it is a drought here!), trailer/truck brakes weirding out down 5% grades on 285 into Denver, etc. etc. Title signed incorrectly in our late evening stupor, and the key didn't make it home with the truck so I couldn't get it off the trailer! One trailer axle or police incident short of classic. 1am towing of this beast from west of Denver to Monument had 3 cops excited enough to get behind me, (two in Monument alone!), but the plate and lights were legit so no one bothered.



The unnamed donor was the nicest guy on the planet, a tdr member of course. He rolled around in the dirt with me 10:30 at night getting the truck onto the too-short / too narrow trailer, and had the key to me AND new title by 9am the next day. Thanks! All class.

 

[Nordby]

So, you ask what is wrong with that 1997? The answer is:

 

[Nordby]

Questions for the conversion gurus: Here are some options for me.



1) Original Plan is to grab the engine, get an NV4500 (or 5600 if affordable) since the donor is an auto, use adapters from Advance Adapters, or High Impact Transmissions, or FordCummins, and put this in my 1978 and adapt to my np205.



2) An option is to put my 1978 body onto the dodge frame, appears it is OK. Wheelbase does not match, so shortening the frame (



3) This donor is an auto - would it be difficult to use the auto transmission/transfer case in this conversion? I'm leery of the electronics involved to get this done more than anything. With a 5spd, things are a bunch simpler.



Also, since I have a complete truck, what parts would you keep before selling/parting? My plan is the engine, intercooler, radiator, all plumbing up front, ps pump, ac, alternator, batteries, fuel lines, fuel tank, engine wire harness, grid heater wiring and parts, starter, mounts, etc. Anything else I should grab before sending her down the road? I have a guy who claims he wants the rest, so I want to get what I need before putting it on a trailer!



Thanks, jon.

 

[Scot]

Moving to the other frame would be a lot of work. That would be my second choice. I do have some concern about original frame strength as I am going to start at ~400hp and go from there. Time will tell.



I like the np205 but if you are looking for ease, the 241hd would be good. Another question is how strong is the Advance Adapter spud shaft? Time will tell.



Using Dodge automatic transmission and t/c would cut time and hassle IMHO.



I am not running any electronics on the engine except fuel solonoid.



Keep all of the bolts and biscuits on the engine mounts.



I will help you in any way I can.

 

[Nordby]

Thanks Scot, the advice is appreciated.



Still digging on the electronics/steering column issues I might have with the auto, but that sure is tempting since it is rebuilt with 3K on it. I have a buyer for it as well, so I will have funds to go 5spd for a reasonable cost.



I sourced an old 1978 4x4 Ford frame to get the crossmember from it for $25. Going to use this old crossmember, in conjunction with mine, to fabricate one that drops lower to clear that front cummins pulley (vs. notching it). The one you guys did looks a ton better than a cut out, and probably easier to get the engine in/out due to how close the firewall gets to that back valve cover!.



Where did you source the motor perches from, or did you build your own and weld to the frame once you had it all lined up?



Thanks for the help!

jon.

 

[Scot]

I built mine from scratch using the '94 Cummins (round biscuit) mounts. You get real close on the right side where the original compressor mount is. In fact, I will probably end up cutting one of the tits off so it doesn't hit.



There is really not much leeway on where the engine sits, left to right.



I set the valve cover 3/4-1" from the firewall.

 

[Nordby]

Thanks scot - I viewed your reader's rigs section and saw what you meant by using the biscuit mounts - and building your own perches to fit the factory bolt pattern. Makes sense, and keeps my rookie welding off the frame!



When I get closer to that point I'll contact you about your prototypes.



jon

 

[Nordby]

More Progress! Pulled the radiator/intercooler last week. Pulled the cummins donor this morning. Starting to measure what goes where and how to do it.



Sure would be cool to take the whole radiator/intercooler/auto trans cooler/ac condensor parts, and the frame around them (top, sides, bottom are bolted on the dodge), and fabricate into the old ford. The radiator, with that frame piece, is way big like 51", and I only have about 41" to work with where the old ford radiator goes.



I likely will follow scott/y2k and others and just put the intercooler from the dodge in - right behind the grill shell, but in front of the ford radiator mount. Looks to fit nicely.



Attached is the removal. Man they hide some of those bolts, fuel lines (now I know why guys are relocating those fuel seperators!), etc. Suppose I should get a manual at some point. Oh, and the mixing of standard/metric is annoying. Flexplate/torque converter, starter stuff, transmission mount stuff, kinda anything off the engine, but right next to where you were just using 16's and 14's etc. .

 

[Nordby]

The cummins already makes this old ford look better. This photo, and the last, answer the question that yes, a $200 Tool Mart/Harbor Freight 2 ton hoist will pick up a cummins and move it around. I was skeptical, but it worked well (I did make the boom as short as possible and still get the motor pulled.

 

[AKAMAC]

First thing you have to do is get rid of that fram filter ... ... OK maybe you should mount it first ... . Looks great, good luck. Mike

 

[Nordby]

Crackin' me up. I hadn't actually noticed it until I was unbolting the turbo. I about fainted. Yikes.



At least now it is doing a job it is good for: keeping that oil housing from dripping while I work on it. Wonder if it will hold?!!!



Just gave all my money to Rocky Mountain Cummins - ordered the top and bottom gasket sets ($380 total) so I can seal this thing up nice. It is seeping on the front main, the oil pan, maybe the timing cover, all valve covers, etc. etc.

I know if I tried to piece it together I'd forever be missing something.



Ordered the engine manual too ($68) but I figured that is a reasonable price and what I need to succeed at this!



They were out of stock on the kdp tab, so I ordered the kit from TST.



Cleaning and sealing this weekend. I am looking for all parts to convert an auto to a nv4500 (or nv5600). Flywheel housing, flywheel, pilot bushing, bell housing, transmission, clutch, all hardware, etc.



thanks, later, jon.

 

[AKAMAC]

Look what is in the classified!

 

[Nordby]

Thanks! I just emailed him,

jon

 

[BV]

I think I still have the NEW pilot bearing out of my flywheel for a 96 with a NV 4500. Email me a 6 pack and I could send it your way.



For some reason it didn't fit with my ZF

 

[Nordby]

Questions to folks on compatiblity and durability. My plan is to go 5spd or 6spd adapted to the np205 in my 1978 ford. This eases mounting, driveshaft compatability, and the speedo issue to the old ford.



I still have the transfer case from the 1997 cummins auto donor truck. Will that transfer case bolt to the nv4500's and nv5600's? Is that a better setup? If so, how do you solve the mechanical speedo in a 1978 ford vs the electronic speedo off the 1997 dodge transfer case?





Also, where do you get a tool to take apart those pesky A/C lines on the 1997 Dodge Cummins?



thanks a ton folks!

jon.



(progress)

- light - pulled the donor exhaust, I'll use it for a while to dial the truck in.

- pulled the wiring harness/computer from the donor too, just in case.

- donor goes down the road next sunday, so I have to finish cannablizing!

 

[AKAMAC]

Jon, not to put a fly in the ointment, but there is a pressure plate in the pay-it-foward area. Might be a nice upgrade. Mike

 

[Nordby]

Quick progress update. Pulled the axles, auto transmission, xfer case, and driveshafts saturday. A buyer from Rifle, CO came buy and snagged the transmission for his 2nd gen, and the axles for his project. They are going into a half-ton dodge, and going to be rock crawlin' up there - pretty cool home for those! He didn't know about tdr.com, but does now, so a new member is on his way since his daily driver is a 2nd gen (with a soon not to be slipping auto!).



I'm going to saw the perches out of the dodge frame I have left, and make motor mounts that way for my Ford. Weld those perches to plates, and drill the plates for my Ford frame.



I have quite a few parts for a 1997 - wheels, interior, passenger body, wiring, pcm, etc, add should show up after the moderators OK it.

I'll spend the week sawing and parting out the donor so I can get back to work on the project!



later, jon.

 

[Nordby]

What are you guys doing for brakes going into trucks with vaccum powered setups?



Since I am parting out the 1997, I am wondering if I should keep the hyrdro-boost master brake cyclinder, provided that is what I have in this thing (ignorance showing!).



Thanks, jon.

 

[Scot]

I am running a ~ '78 F350 booster and m/c. Probably will suppliment it with a 4" exhaust brake.