1st Gen G56 Swap

[JGrefenstette]

Deo - you gonna have to modify the floor boards to install the trans, like the nv5600 requires? are you going to need to resize both your drive shafts? were you able to source an addapter for the motor??? i assume the bellhousing dosne bolt up? sorry for all the questions. but one more. if somebody was looking to get one of these trans, new or used, what kind of price rang should be expected???



thanks

 

[therabbittree]

As mentioned in the 2nd gen g56 thread. l'm going to delay the swap. I hope to start it soon... . ie in a month or so. I have a 1st gen and second gen engine to trans adapters. . the southbend FE for a G56 I have, supposedly works with the 1st gen adapter and starter. I hope to mock it up with a spare engine in may garage. As for the floor, I plan on adding a older chevy unboltable trans hump to the floor pan to have it removable. The 29 splines on my transfercase and the trans should bolt up from what I've read regarding the 2nd gens that have swapped in the G56. I plann on a twin stick transfercase shifter swap too, the driveshafts may need the be lengthened or shortened . . we'll see, if the do I'll be adding bigger joints. As for price mine was "new" zero mile take out trans from a '07 with a 6. 7L. I would have to dig the paper work up but I think it was around $2500. I am in the middle of redo doing my Economy Powerking tractor, I hope to have it going by the weekend, then I have to swap in 5 bolt VR6 suspension and a Black leather interior in my '96 Passat TDI wagon, and then the G56 trans swap will get under way. I habve a ton of stuff for the swap. ie pto pumps controls etc it should be nice when done. I have the pto and pumps speced to fit a 3rd gen mounting also. More pictures to follow.

I will be selling my 160k 5 spd getrag it shifts great no problems if any one is interested let me know. The truck is on the road and driven often, so any prospective buyers could try it out. Also have a 518 overdrive, and 727 cummins trans for sale, and a Auto spline Np205 from a 1st gen to sell too.



Thanks,

Deo

 

[JGrefenstette]

thanks for the answers deo, i apreciate it. ill be interested to see how things work out for you, as i may be following behind you before too long.

 

[Philip]

Ok its well past spring time. :-laf





How are you doing on the swap??????

 

[therabbittree]

I'm gearing up for the swap. . I finished my VW passat tdi project . . well 98% finished it ha. . now I'm finishing some of the honey do home projects and then I hope to start the swap. Another issue is $. . I'm bustedvand pretty well broke in the cash dept. and I have school taxes due next month and what not. . so thats a bit of a deterrent. . as you know even with all my parts and supplies the little unforseen stuff will nickel and dime me to death... .

Another member here may be finishing his 1st gen G56 swap before me . . so well see I was gonna be teh guinea pig . . now maybe he will be. . ha

Thanks,

Deo

 

[Shadrach]

My buddy has a 93 W350 with the Gutrag. After changing it out way to many times ( mostly due to poor workmanship in the rebuild dept ) he has decided to bite the bullet and put in a G56. We have ordered all the parts from Dodge and Cummins and hope to start this next month. We will be using the newer "AE" version with the not so low " L "and better O/D. Since he has 3. 54 gears he won't have the rpm issue the 3rd gen guys have with 3. 73's. I will make lots of notes and take lots of pics. I have a Mac so I have to figure out how to post them as I do better with engines than computers. If this works out, and I believe it will, then I plan on doing the same to my crew. I might even start my conversion before I die. :-laf Shadarch

 

[2broke2smoke]

good thread ... keep us posted

 

[Shadrach]

Almost anything will fit if you have enough time, money,and help. Unfortunately I'm short on all three counts. Shadrach

 

[Shadrach]

UPDATE: The 2 new G56 South Bend Clutch kits arrived today, as did the tranies and other parts from Dodge. We are still waiting for the PTO. I am still not sure which hydraulic kits we will need. Since SBC doesn't make one for 1st gens I ordered one for the 94-97 and one for the 98-02. The mains difference is that the newer one has an adjustable rod ( the one that attaches to the clutch pedal ) whereas the older version is non-adjustable. We will do some trial fitting shortly and the conversions starts later this month. Details and part numbers to follow. I am going to install a G56 in my crewcab as well. When you order 2 of everything you get a better price. Although the 2WD version ( mine ) was more money it was more readily available as the 4WD versions are more in demand. Once we get his truck done and a few more things cleaned up before the snow flies I hope to start on my crewcab conversion ( finally ) Shadrach

 

[therabbittree]

Chelsea makes the correct pto. . I have the part #s and other misc for that setup. Chelsea will sand you a full catalog and specific G56 info. The pto setup I'm going with is a pto hydraulic pump direct mount. Its high pressure up and pressure down on my dump hoist. I want to run another spool valve and circuit to maybe run a hydraulic winch I have. Keep us posted . south Bend told me the first gen hydraulic clutch setup was what they sell to the second gen people as the upgrade. Which Souithbend are you going with?. . I went with the FE. . if i had th e$ i would have done the dual disc. . but im broke. . ha. Oh I'm planning on makeing a removeable dog house / floor peice to have access to the trans. I also have a idea to make a trans lube cooler with a pump driven off the driveshaft etc... I'm just nervouse were to pic up the fluid and feed it bacjkk into the case etc and if i have to drill the case keep us posted with your progress and post some pictures.

Later,

Deo

 

[Shadrach]

My buddy has ordered the PTO from them already. It is for his air compressor as it is a mechanics service truck. It won't arrive for a couple of weeks yet. We are using the CON OFE clutch kit. Since we need to get his truck back on the road ASAP ( no truck no income ) the front drive shaft and maybe even the PTO will be done later. Shadrach

 

[9312valve]

i'm very intrested in your old getrag trans , i'd like to have a spare, please let me know on a price and how into new york from new jersey are you, your trans swap sounds very intresting also, i like the idea of a 6 speed maybe later on down the road i'll look into it, send me a message with the info on the getrag. thanks

_______

93'CTD, pin, tuned pump, custom 4in exhaust, getrag 5spd, asa modifieds cold air, 4 in. down pipe on the way

 

[Shadrach]

OK Drum roll please ... ... For all you waiting to find out if a G56 will fit in a 1st gen ... . YES IT DOES. We started the G56 swap on Fri. First some back ground. The truck is a 93 W350 dually club cab with the wheel base being stretched 2 feet for his 10 foot service box. It already has a 96 CTD and as mentioned earlier he has had problems with bad rebuilds in the Gutrag dept. With all his weight ( 14000 lbs ) the 6 speed ratios will be much better. With the NV5600 not being build anymore it was decided to go for broke and buy a G56. We wanted the newer "AE" ratios which would limit us for "wrecker specials" so a new "rebuild" was purchased from Dodge. They aren't getting a core back. We ordered 2 of everything (1 4WD for him - 1 2WD for me ) trans, mount, shifter, boots, etc... We got a "deal" this way. Since we are in Canada I won't tell you the cost as it would be different than what you would pay.



KEEP READING AS SOME OF THIS HAS CHANGED



Ok heres some details: The trans adapter ( on the back of the block ) for the Gutrag will NOT work with the G56. It is thinner. I had already ordered the "correct " one from Cummins for a 2008 Dodge with a G56. It will NOT work either. Of the 8 bolts used to hold it to the block 1 is in a different place, because Cummins has added a grooved area for an oring to go behind the cam plug the bolt hole was in the way so they moved it. Since I still had the adapter from the 96 engine that we put in his truck we tried it. The 8 bolt holes were correct and it was the same width as the 2008 one. However the starter mounting holes for the 2nd gen starter are different. Two of them are OK but 1 isn't. You can use the 2nd gen starter but it will hit the frame.

Does anyone know what you use for a starter when you install a NV4500 in a 1st gen? Shadrach

 

[therabbittree]

cool I have 2nd gen trans adapter. too . . mummn what didn't work with the first gen adapter? as south bend said my flywheel is for first gen starter with a g56 etc. . mummn hopefully mine works well when i get to swap it . . looking like a spring time job for me now. . as i don't feel like trying it no when snow will fly soon and if i mess up or run out of the no money I have then I can't plow etc... so spring time it is. . so how does it drive what gears does he have?. . what was the deal with the drive shaft ? dids it need shortening or length? Picsetc

Thanks,

DEo

 

[Shadrach]

The G56 flywheel we got with the new MU G56 Con OFE clutch from SBC is thicker than the other version we had in there. When I asked the guys at SBC about the starter they said the 1st gen should work , but didn't mention anything about which trans adapter to use. I left all my notes out at his acreage but the G56, with adapter is approx 4" longer than the Gutrag with adapter and bell on. The exhaust will have to be reworked. He has 4" after the down pipe but we made it with pieces and used band clamps so it comes apart easily. Doing this will give us more clearance. The xmember will have to be moved back as well. The back hole in the frame for it will now become the front hole. The fact that it is a 4X4 and has a PTO driven air compressor complicates things. With some relatively minor customizing ( aka ball peen hammer ) the trans tunnel now has enough room. The lip on the firewall had to be cut down and then beat flat, the drivers side of the tunnel needed only slight pounding. We also beat the area directly behind the lip for extra clearance. The slope of the bell on the G56 is different than the G360. It doesn't taper off as fast. There is a "knob" on the top of the G56 just in front on the lifting "handle" that we cut off for tunnel clearance. A small ( probably 1" ? ) body lift would have allowed more room, but we didn't have time for that. We test fit the trans with only the trans adapter and flywheel in place to see where to pound. We used a paint marker for the shifter hole as well. That flywheel is heavy. The area above the rear of the trans will need to be pounded up as well in order to get proper drive shaft angles, and to make tha trans sit right for fluid levels. Even though it is a 4X4 we still had to put the truck up on blocks to get the trans on the transmission jack under the truck. When I left his place the trans was mounted but still supported by a bottle jack at the rear. More details to follow. Now if I could figure out how to post pix from my Mac. Shadrach

 

[MMeier]

Does anyone know what you use for a starter when you install a NV4500 in a 1st gen? Shadrach

I used the original one that came with the getrag, works fine.

 

[Shadrach]

MMeier Did you use the original trans adapter as well? Shadrach

 

[MMeier]

MMeier Did you use the original trans adapter as well? Shadrach

Yes, used the original "adapter", as you call it, the kit did come with a different bellhousing though.

 

[glhs]

If I recall correctly, The Getrag to NV4500 conversion kits use a different bellhousing so you can reuse your old slave cylinder and starter but, if you do the NV4500 swap by using a bellhousing from a "donor" 2nd gen truck you must also use the 2nd gen starter.

No matter who you buy a Getrag to NV4500 kit from they are all made by Advanced Adapters. The only exception was Quad 4x4 who used to modify the kits to make them fit and work better.



What is the difference in gear ratios of 6th gear between early and late G56s?

 

[Shadrach]

... what didn't work with the first gen adapter? as south bend said my flywheel is for first gen starter with a g56 etc. . mummn hopefully mine works well when I get to swap it . .



The 1st gen adapter isn't as thick and since the input shaft on the G56 is long and the new flywheel is thicker we used the thicker 2nd gen adapter.



. what was the deal with the drive shaft ? did it need shortening or ...



The new trans with adapter is about 4" longer than the old set up so the frt shaft will need to be lengthened and the front half of the back one shortened. The exact amount to be determined still.



One of the frustrating things about working on this is some bolts are metric and some aren't . The bolts holding the adapter onto the engine are metric but the ones that hold the trans to the adapter are standard. The engine and trans are metric but some of the other parts are not. Shadrach