Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 2001 fuel bleed problems

[Kalaehina]

Haven't had a day off to really get into it, I hope to get some pressure readings sometime this week (if I get a day off!). My pressure readings at the filter before I messed with the truck was consistently 11 psi, idle was always 15 psi, WOT up a hill was the only time it would creep down towards 10 psi, but never below 10. Back in June I had done a fuel filter change, I could have swore that before that change the pressure would never drop below 15, I actually thought my gauge or sending unit was bad, then after the change the fuel pressure needle moved enough to get my attention.

 

[Sticks]

Also getting code P0300, P0301, P0303. I guess related to when I was trying to get the air out of the system.

How is it nobody looked up or posted the description of these codes. They are located in several places in the forum.

P0300 (M) Multiple Cylinder Mis-fire Misfire detected in multiple cylinders.
SYMPTOM
P0300-MULTIPLE CYLINDER MISFIRE

WHEN MONITORED
Engine speed below 880 RPM (auto Trans) or 860 RPM (manual Trans) engine temperature above 140 °F , PTO inactive, and VSS = 0.

SET CONDITION
For misfiring cylinder, time for crank to turn 120 ° during a firing interval of a cylinder being tested compared to the time for crank to turn 120 ° during firing interval of previous cylinder > 40ms (manual Trans) > 240ms (auto Trans).

POSSIBLE CAUSES

Possible causes
Mechanical problem
CAM tone wheel
Intermittent wiring harness problem
Freeze frame data
CMP sensor

P0301 & 0303 is misfire in 1 and 3 respectively.

Cam sensor and or tone wheel.

 

[JR]

How is it nobody looked up or posted the description of these codes.

Re read the posts. He cleared his codes and is only getting a 0216. Most likely from excessively cranking the engine after he opened up his fuel system If they come back then they will have to be dealt with.

 

[Sticks]

But if he does have a cam sensor problem, that is going to give him hard start/no start conditions (excessive cranking). Fighting two different problems at the same time.

 

[JR]

I would agree with that, except he says it starts immediately and idles fine. Only cuts out at higher rpm. That's why I recomended that he have his codes cleared and see what comes back, who knows how long some of them could have possibly been stored in the ecm or if they were possibly caused by cranking when he was bleeding the air out of the system... this way he starts off with a clean slate and whatever comes back will have to be dealt with... .
On a side note, I'm assuming your getting your codes with the key trick. That works most of the time but if you have access to a code reader it is better to pull them up with that just to be sure your getting everything.

 

[Kalaehina]

Update, I got a hold of a code reader OBD II and I verified the codes first, then cleared the codes. Started the truck, got the rpms up, same symptom and the engine light came back on. Checked codes again, P0216, the injector codes did not come back. Took fuel pressure reading at schraeder valve, bump starter let lift pump run, 13 psi. Does this still point to the VP44?

 

[Kalaehina]

Also, before I did the recent work on the truck, she ran fine, absolutely fine.

 

[Kalaehina]

Is it possible to have damaged the fuel pump electrically? Would that cause a code and or damage the pump enough requiring a new pump?

 

[Sticks]

The fact that those cam sensor codes did come up once has me troubled, even though they did not come back. The ECM get's it's info from the crank and cam (they have to agree) then on to the VP. I would prefer to see the data stream for both the crank and cam sensor while the engine is running before I condemned the VP.



POSSIBLE CAUSES



Other DTC's present

Fuel injection pump

Fuel injection pump gear not aligned

Fuel filter restricted

Transfer pump inlet line restricted



As one member pointed out early in this thread, you may very well have damaged the VP during your air purging. These VPs are very flaky, sometimes they take a stunning amount of abuse, others you look at them wrong and they go Tango Uniform. Possible you might have also gotten some debris in the fuel that made it into the VP while you were moving your fuel pressure sensor.



Pricing - Central Motive Power in Denver CO, or Blue Chip Diesel for a reliable reman pump. Shipping is going to sting though unless you have someone you know either going to the mainland or coming over to visit.

 

[JR]

If there are any competent shops in your area you may want to contact them and see if they have any scanners that will read live data. You could try replacing your cam sensor as a last resort, worst case scenario you would have a spare on the shelf.
Blue Chip Diesels website has a lot of great diagnostic info if you haven't been over there yet. I'm not sure how the phone support there is since he retired, but I know at one time you could call and he would gladly work you through any problems you have. Might be worth a phone call after you study up on his website for a bit.
This is where things get tricky, I know its hard to drop that much coin without being absolutely positive that's your problem. I would try to eliminate everything else first and only condemn the pump as a last resort. Let us know how things work out and good luck getting your truck back up.


One last thing, I know I've already mentioned this, but have you checked your air intake piping? A stray rag, a critter moving in and building a nest in the air box, anything that would partially restrict The intake where it is restricting the engine at higher rpm. This is grasping at straws, but is a possibility... .

 

[Kalaehina]

Thanks for all the info guys, and I'll check out the air intake, at this point anythings possible. I'll update when I make some progress troubleshooting.

 

[Kalaehina]

Is it best to check fuel pressure engine off or on?

 

[JR]

With the engine running. It is best to check with the engine under load, as in going down the road with your foot in the throttle. Reason for this is because sitting at idle or even revving in neutral a fuel pump may put out good pressure but under load it may pull the lift pump down. I realize you may not be able to do this, but keep it in mind for future testing

 

[Kalaehina]

Is it possible to still get that code if I replace the pump?

 

[JR]

I assume your talking the injection pump, IF it indeed is the injection pump once you erase the code it will not return.

 

[Sticks]

Is it possible to still get that code if I replace the pump?

If you replace the transfer pump and are getting adequate pressure and flow, then yes it could go away. If you replace the VP, and still get the code, you either threw a part at the truck without proper diagnosis, or got a bad VP.

 

[Kalaehina]

Just trying to prepare for the shock if I drop the big $$ for a new pump only to still have the same problem. What else could be causing the code if the pump is brand new for example?

 

[Sticks]

If you are referring to a new VP, could be an electrical gremlin (usually a ground), air in the fuel, mechanical problem in the timing gears (broken or severely worn teeth pointing to a KDP or bearings), slop in the VP shaft inside the timing gear (loose nut and/or keyway). Post 29 has the usual suspects listed for the P0216 code.

 

[JR]

Broken or worn gears like Sticks mentioned are all valid possiblities but being the truck ran fine before you shut it down to change your gauge I would suspect the problem is pretty straight forward. If you are absolutely sure you have good fuel pressure (verified by a working fuel pressure gauge), and have no leaks in your fuel line anywhere, it is a good chance it is your VP. The cam sensor is another possibility even though that code has not yet returned. This is where a good scanner that is capable of reading live data as the truck is running is worth it's weight in gold and would be worth the diagnostic fee to take to a diesel shop in my opinion. That or some very in depth testing by process of elimination as Chip Fisher (Blue Chip Diesel) walks through in his troubleshooting section will be the only way to know for sure. At one time Chip actually had a guarantee that if you followed his troubleshooting and verified everything you did on the phone with him, and he incorrectly diagnosed a faulty VP he would take the new VP back on return and issue a full credit. Not sure if they still do that over there or not.

 

[Kalaehina]

Thanks for all the info guys, here's an update, new VP44, new FASS lift pump, new fuel filter, (new filter for the FASS as well), new cam sensor, took a while to get the truck started but she finally fired up, died a few times, but now it starts, but not on the first try like before, it kind of cranks a bit then starts. Truck still bogs at around 1700-2000 rpms, and now I get no codes. Fuel pressure at schraeder port reads bout 10-11 before pumps cuts off, looks like it would go higher if the pump ran longer then the 20 seconds or so after bumping starter. Since it took so long to get it started could there still be air in the system? And would air cause a stumble/bog at those rpms? I am going to concentrate my attention on the filter housing and specifically the line that goes to the VP from the filter housing to the schraeder port since originally last month that's the line I actually touched. I removed the valve stem to install a fuel line to the pressure sending unit, and it seems that's where all my troubles began.