2005 = 6.1 L v-8 diesel...IN CHICAGO NEWSPAPER

[KCJackson]

Originally posted by DIESELMAN

Forgot about Roger, didn't I? I have always wondered why a DD never ended up under the hood of GM trucks from the beginning?

They did. DD assisted Chevy in the design oif the 6. 2 and 8. 2 V8 diesels, then assumed full responsibility for them for a brief period during the many GM "reorganizations" of the 80s until DD was sold to Penske, then those two engines became "GM Diesels" as opposed to Chevy or DD engines. And as we know, the 6. 2 was enlarged to 6. 5, then turbo'd, and its final incarnation matched the 215hp 12-valve Cummins - albeit the 6. 5 was at its limits, and the Cummins was just getting started.

 

[XcumminsX]

Re: Felt like being mean

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I sent Jim Mateja a little email pointing out his blunder



-- email address removed --



Hi Jim, I just wanted to comment on your recent article "Chrysler's Latest Concept: Take on Hummer. " You made a pretty major boo-boo that got many members of the Turbo Diesel Register in a dither! You stated the Jeep Rescue and future HD Rams will be powered a 6. 1 Cummins V8 Diesel. There is no such thing, nor will there ever be! Cummins does not build any V8 or V6 Diesels whatsoever. Dodge has a contract with Cummins to build the 5. 9L inline-6 diesel exclusively for the Ram HD pickup until the 2008 Model Year. The engine you were actually talking about is the upcoming 6. 1L GAS Hemi V8.



Just wanted to set this straight



Thanks,

Vaughn MacKenzie



If I get a response I'll post it

Did you get a responce from that guy? i will send him the bill for my heart attack after i read that article!

 

[y-knot]

I hope they do come out with something new, this set-up is getting old. Time for a little change.

 

[scotty1]

D E T R O I T

I mentioned it before.

Theres prototypes being tested.

I was in the loop with a DD shop in Canada that was assigned to do the winter testing. Once the GenMan was changed, the service mgr left and they moved to their new building, I was not privy to anymore info. :{

 

[XcumminsX]

y-knot why is the set-up old... this truck has all the potential to keep up and beat the competition ford and chevy. You dont make sense, the set-up we have is the most proven set-up and also the most reliable. WHY CHANGE IT

 

[y-knot]

I agree that the current set-up is proven. But so was the M-60 tank, before the M1-A1 came out? So it is proven?, what would compel the truck maker, Dodge, to rest of it's laurels and not advance with the rest in regards to technology? The model-T was damn sure "proven", but they still bung out the model-A. Cummins introduced this engine at least 30 years ago. It went basically unchanged till 98. 5 when the 24V came out. Still in that, it was the same basic bottom end, with a revised valve-train and intake system. I love the engine, but I love old steam engine tractors too. They sure didn't keep those around, and I think it's probably time to switch out the 5. 9L CTD. That does not mean it has to be the end of a Cummins/Dodge relationship. Just it is time to re-tire the old faithful, and move on to another relationship, and hopefully it will be with Cummins. Dodge got lucky with the Cummins. You could not give away those "ugly" first gen trucks. They had been the same for almost twenty years, and although they were tough, rugged, and in every sense a "real truck". The market demanded more then plain potato's and green beans. Somehow, someone in the Dodge camp had the forethought to Aguirre a relationship with Cummins, and off took the sales. But the people that were buying them were still mainly the ones that have always supported Dodge. The first gen was known as a "farmers" truck, no disrespect intended, but that is the segment that bought them. They needed a truck that would run everyday, and make no complaints about it. They were fine with the vinyl seats, rubber floors, ect. , that is what they liked, low maintenance enterer, perfect. But the masses wanted more perks, so the Cummins managed to keep Dodge in the running till 94' when the 2nd generation truck was released. Now Dodge had a whole new market, no longer was it just a work truck, now it was main stream. At the time some might even say they were ahead of the styling curve. Now, Dodge was growing by leaps and bounds. They had everything there was that the truck buying public wanted. New and different styling, nicer ride, and comfort, and at the time the best diesel engine offered, they had the Cummins. Now for the first time they were marketing there truck to people that didn't or wouldn't have normally bought a truck, they were setting a trend. And the Cummins was responsible for a good part of there success, not only could you buy this new , different looking truck. But you could have it with a Cummins. Christ, until then you could only dream of owning a Cummins. And unless you were a truck driver, or had a piece of equipment, you could only imagine what it was like to have one. I think is is a fair statement to make, That Cummins saved Dodge. I think with out the relationship, Dodge could never have taken the market share they now enjoy. And the venture was good for Cummins, they did nothing but continue to put out a great product, and up-hold the Cummins reputation, and good name. But things continue to change, and this isn't the early 90's. The competition has caught up, both Chevy and Ford now have good products. And there is environmental issues that must be addressed. Kind of like the 2-stroke motorcycles or ATV engine. They are being forced out of production, and it doesn't matter how good they were or use to be. It Yamaha, Honda, any of the motorcycle/ATV manufacturers didn't keep up and address the issues of future development, then they would be left behind. So now you see a whole new crop of 4-stroke engines and each maker with there own Tuttle differences, but still conforming to the regs. Same will and must take place in the diesel truck market. I don't think anyone wants to sideline the 5. 9l I-L Cummins, but in order for Dodge to survive in this market, they will have to find a replacement. I see know reason why Cummins could not be apart of there new strategy. But Cummins has made the remakes several times , that they will not build a V-8 diesel. It makes no sense for a company like Cummins to paint themselves in a corner with such a blanket statement like that. There are many reasons for the V design, under hood space management is a key issue, as is aero design. Unfortunately, if Cummins neglect to change with the times, they will not be part of the next generation. That would be sad indeed.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

y-not, the B-series has been around a long time (more like 20 years not 30) yet I dare say it's more advanced than the new PowerStroke and DuraMax.



I wouldn't confuse "complicated" and "challenging" (which the V8 diesels are in the other brands) with "advanced engineering. "



What I am saying is engineers had to go to great lengths to engineer a V8 that will work, pass emissions, generate decent HP and mileage, and keep build costs under control. As you can see Ford/Navistar fell flat on its face. The DuraMax had a number of issues. But the HPCR Cummins comes out running like a fine Swiss watch. Hmmmm.



The V8 vs I6 topic has been beaten to death. When it comes to building a diesel engine with the latest technological advances and putting it into a pickup you're ahead of the game if you stick with an inline 6. The bottom ends are more rugged, the generate more torque, and have far fewer moving parts to build, break, or wear out. Engineering costs spent trying to make a V8 diesel work could instead be spent toward improved emissions, economy, etc. or passed onto the consumer.



It's been proven time and again the Cummins can match performance of any of the V8 diesel available, embarass them with greater torque, and are practically indestructible. The only advantage I see to a V8 is they tend to drive like a gasser V8, they rip when light but dogged when loaded and you have to spin them over faster to get the same job done, accelerating wear and decreased fuel economy.



I honestly don't see how you can get more "state of the art" than the latest Cummins. Maybe lighten it a little? I think the current V8s are just as heavy.



Vaughn

 

[TCDiesel]

V-8 DIESEL

Let"s,look at history were is the 6. 2,6. 5 GM. 7. 2 Ford . 3208 Cat ,8. 1 ,318 Detroit,366 Int. ,Just to mention a few. GONE. { I should mention that Navistar does make A awesome I-6 466}. NOW Were is the 5. 9 cummins ,still going strong. In the future were are the 6. 0 and the duramax going to be,A V-8 DIESEL IS A STEP IN THE WRONG DIRECTION in a pickup application. A V-8 diesel only advantage is it quicker to the next stop light when empty. Now if some one else can think of some benefits chime in.

 

[XcumminsX]

with reading these last couple posts, something popped in my head. I am willing to bet in the future we will see chevy and ford come to have an inline-6 engine. Why do i say this? read vaughns post.



ON a side note? v-8 diesels arent faster than my truck. . i beat a guy with a duramax with no load and i ran a old powerstroke w/ no load. smoked him. I also ran a new powerstroke and only lost by 1-1/2 truck lengths from about 20 - 90.

 

[Steve M]

"Now if some one else can think of some benefits chime in. "



Because they'll sell more trucks. Most people old enough to want or afford a diesel pickup truck are from the era that knew a 6cylinder was in a Falcon and a V-8 was in a bigger more powerful car or pickup. That mentality still exists today in the minds of people with money to spend. Ford and GM have V-8s. Dodge "only" has a 6cyl. We aren't going to teach them. They don't even know we exist. To DC, we're no less than one of those annoying little rice cars with a tin can muffler buzzing through the neighborhood annoying people. If this V8 thing turns out to be true, it might be one bad axx engine. I wouldn't compare Cummins to the garbage GM put out in the past or what Ford threw up this year.

 

[XcumminsX]

well, if d/c decides to put a v-8 diesel in the hd dodge truck i will save my money for a ford f-650 supercrewzer with the inline 6 cummins, and do a 4x4 conversion on it and bomb the heck out of it.

 

[KCJackson]

Originally posted by Steve M

Most people old enough to want or afford a diesel pickup truck are from the era that knew a 6cylinder was in a Falcon and a V-8 was in a bigger more powerful car or pickup. That mentality still exists today in the minds of people with money to spend.

Ummm, I'm just gonna have to go ahead and doubt that.



I was all of 31 when I bought my 1996, and I knew then that a Cummins straight-6 was the way to go. Anyone who knows/researches medium and heavy diesels (class 6-8) knows straight-6 diesels are the way to get hard work done. It's all about the torque.



As for that "Ford Falcon" thing, maybe car people think that way about I-6 vs V8, but I can think of a lot of truck people who miss the Ford 300 straight 6 over the V-8s they're offering these days. Ask a real Mopar fan, car or truck, whether they'd prefer the current 3. 7L OHC V-6 or a 225 slant-6. That deuce-and-a-quarter was as BOMBable as a Cummins.

 

[Dean Upson]

Originally posted by Steve M

"Now if some one else can think of some benefits chime in. "





Most people old enough to want or afford a diesel pickup truck are from the era that knew a 6cylinder was in a Falcon and a V-8 was in a bigger more powerful car or pickup. That mentality still exists today in the minds of people with money to spend.

When I was a kid, guys used to put blown GMC I-6's in their cars to "soup them up". I can sure remember driving F-600 Ford trucks in the '60's with the great 300 cu. in. I-6 in it. Those engines had some torque. That Ford was an unbelieveable engine.



Some people ask me "what's under the hood?" and when I tell them a six they don't believe me or ask me "why I didn't get a V-8?" Most are surprised when they see the size of the Cummins, but they still have the "V-8 mentality". Lot's of people driving around in diesels still have a "gassy" point of view :-laf



Dean

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

KCJackson wrote:

... . V-6 or a 225 slant-6... .

When I was a pup a friend put a slant six in a Willys Utility Wagon and I put a Buick V6 in a Willy Utility Wagon. His slant six was an awesome, reliable, with low end torgue - comparatively speaking. Da, good ol' days.



I got to wondering the other night just how many CTD bombers were motor heads in the sixties. Who were nuetered during the tin can era of the 70s-90s. Only to be "born again" when they discovered the CTD,