2005 Auto Trans Adujustment Question

[jbz400]

Cerberusaim, I can tell you know your stuff. Im getting ready to change out my gov pressure solenoid, transducer, and output shaft speed sensor. Are you saying thet its the borg warner gov solenoid that are just as bad as a fractory one. As of right now, who makes the best parts to put in these trans. Is there any thing else you would replace w pan off. Where is the best place to order these parts. Thanks

 

[p-Bar]

Sure hope it's something that will force them to rebuild it.

If the dealer rebuilds it you will still have the same POS just rebuilt. See if they are willing to put Goerand torque converter and valve body (input shaft) if you can afford it (you will have to pay for these) You will have a bulletproof trans though

 

[cerberusiam]

Borg Warner makes all the solenoids, the OE, the OE upgrade, and the GM style which is huge compared to OE specced for the Dodge. The GM style solenoid almost never has issues in the transmissions it is used in, and, is adjustable to a degree.



It is not always the solenoid that is the problem. This is a feed back closed loop system. The transducer reads gov pressure to the TCM so it can compare to wheel speed and output shaft speed parameters to tell the solenoid where it should set itself. If the transducer reads incorrectly, but within parameters, the solenoid sets incorrectly causing issues. If the solenoid does not set correctly the transducer reads incorrectly for demanded and the TCM tries to compensate causing shift issues. Many issues cannot be tracked to a particular piece because there are no codes set becuase the readings are within parameters. Its a limited system that relies on the pieces working correctly and when they don't the TCM cannot compensate correctly.



There is no upgrade for the transducer and it is the source of a lot of issues. All you can do is replace it when things start not working correctly.



The GM style solenoid at least removes a lot of the problems the OE style ones have with sticking when the fluid is not perfectly clean, or not working correctly at higher pressures. The way the gov manifold is designed and the strength of the solenoid make it a lot less supectible to fluid quality. It will also work more consistently at higher throttle opening when the pressures are higher or a shift kit is installed.



As for additional pieces, a shift kit is the best upgrade to the trans that can be made. The stock pressures are conducive to DD and NVH considerations, not hard usage or long life. The whole dsign from soft steels to lower friction clutches to low apply pressures creates a car like effect when driven normally. The problem with that is the steels wear fasterand burn, the frictions slip more leaving deposits in the fluid which further accelerates the deterioration of the frictions, steels, seals, and thrust washers. Planned obsolesence is about the best description I can think of.



A shift kit raise the apply pressures to stop a lot of this built in slip at the expense of the NVH feel. Personally, I will take an extended firm up shift and pronounced down shifts any day over the mushy stock feel, and, know the trans will last longer in all conditions doing it.



Along with a shift kit, the accumulator needs replaced with a billet verison and better seals. It is plastic with minimal o-ring sealing capability. It leaks pressure when a shift kit is installed and softens the shifts, bad for the over all process.



The front servo is designed work with stock pressures. It also leaks at higher pressures in multiple places. It also needs a billet replacement with better seals. The front servo is the key to timing the 2-3 shift and holding the power in direct. If it is bleeding off you have issues with shift timing and holding the TQ rise when the direct clutch pack is activated. Just an over size set of tires will eat the direct clutch pack in a lot of city driving.



The front band strut and anchor should also be replaced. The cast anchor will crack and the strut bend under higher pressures and power.



The caveat with doing all this moves the problem to the next weak spot, especially if you tow. The enhanced pressures transfer power better, and allow more power safely, but generate more heat and flex in the stamped steel TC cover. The OE design WILL fex under harder use, this causes the flex plate bolts to start working loose and walking in the holes. Once you get a twist going it can tear the center out of the flex plate and\or crack it. Depending on how hard you use the truck you MUST check these bolts periodically for tightness until the TC is replaced with a billet cover one.

 

[Boaring1961]

p-Bar,

I like the idea of putting higher end and stronger after market parts into a rebuilt trans, but there's no way my dealer around here would ever warranty the parts. I'm really stuck because if I have to rebuild it I'd like the upgraded parts, but I cant take a chance if something goes wrong and I have to pay them to tear into it again. With OEM parts and their labor I'm covered for at least a while.

I welcome any ideas or thoughts on how I can get these upgraded parts, but also the security of knowing I'm covered if something fails.

 

[Boaring1961]

Cerb,

Is this the unit that you're saying is much better then the standard and newer Borg solenoids/

http://www.cascadetransmissionparts.com/48regovernorsolenoidhd.aspx

 

[cerberusiam]

Yep, thats the GM style solenoid on the conversion manifold. It is what I run and have zero issues with it. The transducer on the other hand is problematic. Have replaced 3 for various reasons.

 

[Boaring1961]

Cerb,

Is the billet plate that holds the GM style solenoid the same between all manufacturers? I want to be sure before I buy one from some where if there are differences between them.

Thanks

 

[cerberusiam]

AFAIK, there is only one design for that gov plate. There may be only one manufacturer also.

One thing you might want to ask is if it is the later design, there was an updated on one of the passages for some reason shortly after it was available.

 

[Boaring1961]

Cerb,

Would you recommend I replace the 48RE TCC/OD Solenoid Group with Harness while I'm in there? Could this be why these new parts shorted out?

 

[cerberusiam]

Would you recommend I replace the 48RE TCC/OD Solenoid Group with Harness while I'm in there? Could this be why these new parts shorted out?

Yep, if there is ANY question about new parts that quit working after a short time replace that harness and solenoids. A small short in the harness will cook the transducer and it will never finction correctly. Never see a code either.

 

[CGALATE]

http://www.cascadetransmissionparts.com/48resolenoidservicekit2003up.aspx



This looks like the way to go if servicing the trans?

 

[Boaring1961]

CGALATE,

I like the idea of replacing some of those items too, but the one thing I notice is that the pan gasket is nothing like the OEM one. I'm not sure what folks think of the OEM gasket, but I really like them since they're re-usable and I've never had one leak.

Cerb,

Is that wiring harness really involved to install? Is it going to require pulling internal items off of the bottom of the transmission to get at all the connection points? Do I need to worry about quality when I buy this? I have no idea where Cascade Transmission parts gets this stuff and whether or not it's just cheap Chinese made stuff.

 

[cerberusiam]

Wiring harnes is really simple, 1 screw, 1 bolt and a zip tie. If you replace the solenoid and transducer at the same time the at the connections are off. You do have to drop the VB to do it.

 

[Boaring1961]

You do or do not have to drop the valve body? I didn't think you had to drop the VB. I'm leery of getting in over my head in the transmission.

 

[cerberusiam]

You do or do not have to drop the valve body? I didn't think you had to drop the VB. I'm leery of getting in over my head in the transmission.

You have to drop the VB to change the harness. The harness connector goes thru the case to connect to the control harness. Dropping the VB is really not that hard.

Remove the TTVA motor, remove the shift lever, 10 bolts mount the VB to the case and it will drop out. Lining up the parking pawl is the hardest part of the whole process. That and keeping the ATF out of your eyes.

Knowing that the accumulator likes to pop out and hide is the only other thing to remember. Pull the VB down part way and make sure the accumulator releases before completely droping the VB and its all good.

 

[Boaring1961]

So, I just removed the gov solenoid and pressure transducer. Is there a way I can test these at home before sending them back to the supplier for replacement? I think I have an ohms tester, but I'd need to know the appropriate range of values to know if it's good or bad.

If it's the solenoid that's bad I'm going to replace it with the GM style.

 

[cerberusiam]

Not really. The signal solenoid is PWM so it is tough to test if it is actually working correctly. Same with the transducer. You would need to know the values and have some way test the range.

 

[Bob4x4]

Here is a little more theory for you to digest
There are four governor pressure curves programmed into the transmission control module. The different curves allow the control module to adjust governor pressure for varying conditions. One curve is used for operation when fluid temperature is at, or below, -1°C (30°F). A second curve is used when fluid temperature is at, or above, 10°C (50°F) during normal city or highway driving. A third curve is used during wide-open throttle operation. The fourth curve is used when driving with the transfer case in low range.

 

[Bob4x4]

The solenoid valve regulates line pressure to produce governor pressure. The average current supplied to the solenoid controls governor pressure. One amp current produces zero kPa/psi governor pressure. Zero amps sets the maximum governor pressure.

 

[Boaring1961]

Cerb, or anyone for that matter,

If I wanted to install a shift kit from what I can tell there are two ways to do this. I can buy the shift kit and install the pieces myself or I can by a new valve body where someone has already installed the shift kit for me. Is this correct?. I don't have the time and likely the skill to do a shift kit so I wanted to ask if this is accurate can someone recommend a new valve body that has the upgrades shift kit?