2006 engine damage - Dodge will not warranty

[Tinman]

Manual oil pressure gauge is a must if your gonna add gauges get one.

You got that right. I'll be doing this too.



Is it possible for timing and/or duration changes without increased pressure cause premature injector failure? If so, how?? I can grasp how increased pressure could do it but my feible mind can't understand how timing/duration could do any harm (unless, of course, the changes are extreme, i. e. >2* advance of timing).

 

[ACerf]

I was under the impression that Boxes were not detectable once disconnected? That is why I did not get the programable type systems or anything like the Banks setup. And that is why I bought the Edge EZ tow! I run mine at the lowest level, which only gives me an extra 40hp.

I am with some of you guys, I think the DC rep is assuming that he had a box on the truck. I would make them prove how they came up with that idea!



However I must add that everthing I have read in TDR mag has suggested, that most of the engines can not really handle high increases in HP, unless there are other mods to the engine to support more fuel. If I am correct there was an article in the last quarter of 2005. It mentioned that pushing more HP's than the; Fuel and Turbo could handle, may cause premature problems.

 

[y-knot]

was under the impression that Boxes were not detectable once disconnected? That is why I did not get the programable type systems or anything like the Banks setup. And that is why I bought the Edge EZ tow! I run mine at the lowest level, which only gives me an extra 40hp.

I am with some of you guys, I think the DC rep is assuming that he had a box on the truck. I would make them prove how they came up with that idea!







What ever happened to people excepting responsibility for their own actions?????//????



If you are man enough to brag about your big bad Cummins, then be MAN enough to step up to the plate and be your own warranty station. There was a time when the truth was in style. These is only for those that the shoe fits.

 

[ACerf]

Your Quote; What ever happened to people excepting responsibility for their own actions?????//????



If you are man enough to brag about your big bad Cummins, then be MAN enough to step up to the plate and be your own warranty station. There was a time when the truth was in style. These is only for those that the shoe fits. [/QUOTE]



I would have to normally agree with you. However if the "Auto Manufactures" want to play games with the warranty issue I guess we have to play the same game!!

Wasn't it the purpose of the M&M law to avoid having to explain to the dealer as to why you have aftermarket stuff on your vehicle?

I have some dealers making remarks about my AFE filter. To prove to them that it has no effect on the wear I had an oil sample done. It proved that the filter actually reduces the Silicon level in the engine. I would say that this proves I am taking charge of my responsiblitiy when it comes to using aftermarket products!

I think is time for DC to step up to the plate and stand by there warranty for the poor guy who started this post!!

 

[Foil Freak 1211]

M&M was designed to prevent manufactures from requiring owners to go back to the dealership for an oil change, not designed to protect the owner of the vehicle should they decide to re-engineer their vehicle. If DC, Ford, Chevy, etc. were required to pay for failure when the failure was caused by an engine producing more power than the rest of the vehicle was designed to handle, they would go out of business.

 

[JMoberly]

MM was to allow you to use replacement parts made by other companies so that dodge couldnt force you to use their oil filter to keep your warranty and then charge 50 bucks for it. So if I use a fram oil filter and there is a main seal leak they would have to prove the filter was the cause before denying their responsibility. MM does not say you can add aftermarket power to the truck and then when something breaks take it all back off and then say "catch me if you can".



I feel for the OP and the problem probably would have shown up even without the add-ons but they didnt add them. Not to mention denying the fact a box was on when it broke could be considered fraud. Mod used trucks, it doesnt hurt as much.

 

[RJOL]

... I know ya gotta pay to play, but I was under the impression that the mighty Cummins could take a small tweak.



So looks like I'll be paying quite a bit to fix the thing.

You're correct... . Most have found that the Cummins can handle minor and even not so minor power enhancements. The problem is that sometimes they fail. The failure may or may not be the result of your mod, but you gave Chrysler the excuse to void your warranty. Good luck... If you had a major failure it will be pretty expensive to get it fixed if they won't cover it...

 

[ACerf]

MM was to allow you to use replacement parts made by other companies so that dodge couldnt force you to use their oil filter to keep your warranty and then charge 50 bucks for it. So if I use a fram oil filter and there is a main seal leak they would have to prove the filter was the cause before denying their responsibility. MM does not say you can add aftermarket power to the truck and then when something breaks take it all back off and then say "catch me if you can".



I feel for the OP and the problem probably would have shown up even without the add-ons but they didnt add them. Not to mention denying the fact a box was on when it broke could be considered fraud. Mod used trucks, it doesnt hurt as much.

I have to disagree with part of you quote. I have read specifically that many aftermarket parts (performance type) are infact covered under the M&M act. Banks makes the claim that their products would not effect your warranty. And if you read my Edge info it also makes the statement that Auto Manufactures can not fault you for the use of their products. They suggest removing the Edge EZ before taking it to the dealer, due to the fact that the box could cause false readings. Many of these products can not be removed, as a result taking the vehicle to the dealer, if you have a problem, it would be obvious to them that you have power enhancement.



As far as Oil filters and etc. even before the M&M act I never had any problem with using aftermarket products and having a dealer question there use! It is a matter of keeping good records of regular maintenance. I even started doing a annual Oil Sample testing which will give you advanced warning of any problems. It also is a good way to argue a problem with the dealer, should it come up.

 

[DPKetchum]

Let a oil filter fail(filter media stopping up holes in oilers/pistons etc)and watch what happens. Not much differant then a injector failure with a box.

 

[RJOL]

Let a oil filter fail(filter media stopping up holes in oilers/pistons etc)and watch what happens. Not much differant then a injector failure with a box.

There's a big difference in a filter failure (extremely rare with a quality filter) and power mods to the engine. I'd be a lot more confident that the dealer would stand behind thier product if my Fleetguard filter failed for some reason then to ask them to fix my broken engine that I "tweeked" just a little...

 

[RJOL]

... Banks makes the claim that their products would not effect your warranty. And if you read my Edge info it also makes the statement that Auto Manufactures can not fault you for the use of their products. They suggest removing the Edge EZ before taking it to the dealer, due to the fact that the box could cause false readings...

Now here's the rub... Get Banks or Edge to stand behind their products and give you a written guarantee that they will defend your warranty if your engine breaks. By the time you pay for legal advice/representation to fight a warranty denial you will have paid for the repairs many times over. This issue has been beat to death on this forum. The fact is that if you have to modify your CTD for more power, better performance, or whatever, you better be ready to fix it on your own if it breaks... . JMHO...

 

[DPKetchum]

Not talking about a FleetGuard. Lots of OTHER filters on the market. I've seen a filter failure in a Cummins under warranty. Read a article where some of oil labs comminted about finding lots of filter media in oil samples.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

If that's the case according to the dealer, I may replace with aftermarket injectors that are more reliable.

Unfortunately this may not help much since aftermarket injectors are still stock injectors with upgraded or different tips.



The achilles heel of the common-rail system is the fact it's under constant high pressure and any injector problem involving a leak can quickly destroy an engine from the uncontrolled flow of fuel.

 

[daytripper63]

One thing I dont know if EVERYONE HERE realizes is Diesel fuel is crap now and even though they tell us 2007 will be the ultra low sulfer fuel, they are already selling us crap that has virtually no sulfer for lubricity NOW. If anyone on this forum is not running an additive for lubricity, ESPECIALLY all of us with mods, you are asking for trouble! our injectors get there lubricant through the fuel and with low or ultra low sulfer diesel these type of problems will be happening alot if we dont add something whether it is running Bio diesel or just an additive.

 

[Coolslice]

What ever happened to people excepting responsibility for their own actions?????//????



If you are man enough to brag about your big bad Cummins, then be MAN enough to step up to the plate and be your own warranty station. There was a time when the truth was in style. These is only for those that the shoe fits.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is the fact that there is a gray area. Some dealers have no problem with after market parts, and some even sell and install them. Others will void your warranty on the spot.



I have had my truck in the shop a few times with the TST installed, heck they were the ones who installed it, and nothing has EVER been said about the warranty. If it is grounds to void the warranty then why don't they do it the second they see it??



It has been my experience that it really doesn't matter in 90% of warranty claims if you have a box, ect, whatever. However, if you have warranty work that will total 10K dollars then you better believe DC is going to try and get out of it. If all you have is an aftermarket air filter then that is the angle they are going to hit you from.



If it was as cut and dry as many claim by saying "you are your own warranty station" then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I'm not saying they should cover all repairs regardless, quite the opposite in fact but I can understand why there seems to be a conflict of theories on this issue.

 

[BBowers]

One BIG screw job!!

I have an 05 3500 with the triple dog and 24k miles and I have had no problems. I used to run it on performance a lot but have backed off to tow setting for max fuel economy. I was told by Bullydog to run on Perormance at +90 hp for max economy. Hah! not this ride! If I remember correctly Bullydog claims that eithter the programmer is undetectable once returned to stock settings and that also the thing won't hurt your engine, hence why they have TEST MULES to determine if it's feasible to make the darn things in the first place to put on our very costly motors. Sounds like the failed injector would have probably happened with or without a programmer or box anyway. The whole engine is designed to take more than they ship it out with. It is overbuilt way over what we are likley to throw at it as we use our engines at mainly about 60 percent of rated power and very much in a reliable load range unless towing very heavy loads. Empty, the engines are so lightly loaded that the only time they really get tapped for power is under acceleration loads which last for a matter of seconds at a time. Surely an engine designed to hold up for 20,000 hours driving an alternator on a marine genset at roughly the same output and even less load range than we are ever likely to use when empty given operating our trucks at 2100 or below (yes the gensets turn 1800 rpm), can take a few squirts of extra fuel and a little more egt's to get the lumbering beast rolling. Yes, accel loads are far more stressful, but come on!!! It's a diesel with a steel crank and heavy block and a comaparitively light truck versus like a ford f650 or other applications which may employ ISB engines. If you look at the duty cycle under light loads, we really don;t hurt these motors much since they have so much strength built in! how can a 97 mustang cobra with bigger injectors,stock block, heads, cams, crank, rods,pistons, bigger mass air, and a reflash and a 8 psicentrifugal supercharger make 400 rear wheel horses reliably (stock only 250 rwhp)out past 100 k miles with no probs at all and a wimpy aluminum block and only 4. 6 liters and still be rodded around and a huge heavy ISB can't take an extra 90 hp? Bullydog or DC needs to buy you a rebuild, or heck, insist on a whole new engine in the crate!!! It;s not like you were driving pulling 15k lbs and up a 6 percent grade constantly at 2800 rpm for weeks at a time!

Summary:

I was on my way to Gulfport, MS from Memphis, TN, stopping half way for fuel. Noticed oil all over my truck and leaking like crazy.



Update:



So after over a month of my truck sitting at a dealer 200 miles from my house, I finally hear back from the service manager today.



The Chrysler Reps came in, plugged up their computers, and they can tell "something" was plugged up to it at one point. Don't know what, and it's not there anymore, but that was enough for them to deny the warranty.



The manager was very nice and wanted to cover it, but Dodge won't let them.



I was runnin' Bullydog on 90hp performance setting, nothing ever higher. It was either that, a lower setting, or take it off totally and plug up the Quad 65hp box. I never went over 90hp. The oil test shows that there is more diesel in the oil than there is oil.



The manager is charging me only $80 to rip the engine apart and figure out what's wrong, and said he'll let me know by Tuesday an estimate.



So... now I got a 6 month old truck that I didn't push past the reasonable limits and I gotta pay for possibly a new engine rebuild.



Sucks. Be careful boys.

 

[john3976]

Sounds to me like you have the better case in court if that is what Dodge wants to do, I would love to hear their story to the judge that you might have had something hooked up to the truck but they really don't know and it is gone now.



LOL, you have them over a barrel, don't let them off the hook, they are only hoping that you just open up your check book and pay without challenging them. They have no case against you, Don't back down, You have them by the balls on this one.

 

[Donn]

Well all I can say is opinions are just like an *** everyone has one

 

[JonathanBurk]

... DC needs to buy you a rebuild, or heck, insist on a whole new engine in the crate!!! It;s not like you were driving pulling 15k lbs and up a 6 percent grade constantly at 2800 rpm for weeks at a time!

Funny you should mention, you will probably find this interesting also. While I do have a Kore lift and 35's on my truck, I have never towed anything with it. Never even been mudding. Went through a mud puddle once on the way home from shooting on the farm, but that's it.



What I do do is about 3000 miles a month, and go 1000 miles round trip once or twice a month to the coast. That's why in 8 months I got like 24K miles on my truck.



So overall... I'm still not convinced either what I did is the main culprit, and the service manager said he pushed the Chrysler reps and wanted them to cover it, but he didn't think they were going to.



So pretty much it looks like depending on the cost, they "may" warranty it, but if it's super damaged, they won't. Should have an estimate by tomorrow.

 

[Foil Freak 1211]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is the fact that there is a gray area. Some dealers have no problem with after market parts, and some even sell and install them. Others will void your warranty on the spot.



I have had my truck in the shop a few times with the TST installed, heck they were the ones who installed it, and nothing has EVER been said about the warranty. If it is grounds to void the warranty then why don't they do it the second they see it??



It has been my experience that it really doesn't matter in 90% of warranty claims if you have a box, ect, whatever. However, if you have warranty work that will total 10K dollars then you better believe DC is going to try and get out of it. If all you have is an aftermarket air filter then that is the angle they are going to hit you from.



If it was as cut and dry as many claim by saying "you are your own warranty station" then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I'm not saying they should cover all repairs regardless, quite the opposite in fact but I can understand why there seems to be a conflict of theories on this issue.

I'm not sure there really is a "gray" area if you are talking about what Dodge thinks. There probably is with the dealership, but, remember, they are making $ doing the warranty work. I think it's pretty cut and dry regarding performance mods and what happens to your warranty. Not really a fair comparision between a computer program that adds 90 hp and a Fram Oil filter. JMHO.



Good luck either way.