2015 3500 wheelbstuds sheared off

[run2trouble]

Hello,

I lost a set of duals the other night, was going down the road and it felt like I hit a pothole and the truck and trailer ended up in the other lane. I was able to recover and made it safely to the side of the road

I’m looking for thoughts on why this is happening, I had the left side do the same thing two years ago in Idaho.


In Idaho I had about 25k miles on the truck and the factory aluminum wheels, gross weight was 27k.

This time I have 195k miles on the truck and aftermarket wheels that have been on there for 50k miles or so and grossing just over 30k.

One mechanic thinks the drive axle on the truck has been overweight, another thinks the wheel studs weren’t tight.

On the first time, I recovered all 8 lugs and studs. This time all I could locate was one. On both occasions, I can spin the lug nuts off by hand.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[sag2]

Ditch the aftermarket wheels and go back to the OEM wheels that were designed to fit properly. Most aftermarket wheels are lug centric, meaning they studs carry all the weight of the vehicle. If you look at all OEM wheels they are hub centric. Hub centric wheels fit the hub perfectly so the inside diameter of the wheel has very little clearance to the hub so the hub is carrying the weight and the studs just retain the wheel to the hub.
Some aftermarket wheel suppliers sell spacers to fit the hub to wheel gap making them more hub centric. Not ideal but better than what you have.

 

[wyosteve]

My guess as well would be the aftermarket wheels. I had this happen on my '98 Cummins pulling the horse trailer. Drivers side rear wheel with aftermarket wheels.

 

[run2trouble]

The first time it happened, the OEM aluminum wheels were on it.

 

[Jared Herzog]

Aftermarket wheels are likely the culprit. When this happened with the factory wheels how many times had they been rotated? Could the studs have been fatigued with too many torque cycles? Who torqued them down? Were they impacted on?
I have a 15 3500 DRW. I have the steel wheels and wanted to get aftermarket wheels. I never made the switch. I could not find wheels that were as hub centric as the factory wheels without getting centering rings. This hub centric search did not apply to the American Force brand but those were out of my budget.
Also, when doing the search i ran across some owners who had similar issues as you but had lost one, three, or even seven studs and it was determined that there was a bad batch from the factory. After just a tire rotation or two the studs had weakened to the point of failure. I would have a dealer see if this applies to your truck. Then i would make sure that i was not unknowingly overloading the axle. And, finally with this happening more than once i would replace EVERY stud and lug nut on the truck on all four corners.

 

[run2trouble]

I was having the tires broken down and rotated for a while, but is was getting costly for as many miles as I was putting on my truck. So I would leave them where were and replace them. I’ve had them off myself, several tire shops have had them off. I have watched everyone for a long time to make sure there aren’t hitting them hard with the impact. Must shops I have been to have a extension off the impact and it’s designed for 140ft lb. Some shops have torque wrenches, like I use when I have to change one.

The manual says 140ft lb. the dealer in Idaho printed out on their invoice either 160 or 165ft lb.

When the first one went I had inquired about bad studs and the dealer denyed it and said dodge wouldn’t warranty any of it.

There are times that I have been a little over weight, about 700pounds. I’ve changed how I load my trailer since the first incident.

Just looking for info. Thinking about Jumping into an older f700. I’d gain air brakes, sliding 5th wheel hitch, 17.5k rear axle, real sleeper, Eaton 13speed.

But loose on the motor, it has a 6.6l Brazilian at 185hp. It has a bosh pump, I know I can turn it up some. Also loose the 4x4.

 

[Jared Herzog]

I torque mine to 140 and have done all my own rotations. 160-165 is a lot but probably not enough to damage anything.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I torque to 150. I am willing to bet the torque was not done properly the first time and the same since but with aftermarket feels in the mix.

I ALWAYS check my torque ARTER getting tires rotated or installed.

 

[JR]

One thing to keep in mind, if using anti seize torque figures can be off by as much as 30% depending on anti seize manufacturer. In other words, if torquing to 165 ft lbs with Bostik copper antiseize, you'd be torquing studs to the equivalent of 215 ft lbs.

Not sure what loads you haul but maybe a 4500/5500 would do what you need? Big jump in FAWR/RAWR, 19.5" wheels and tires, retain 4whl drive. Registration/insurance probly cheaper too.

 

[run2trouble]

That’s good info

I know there isn’t any anti seize on them. A 45/5500 would be in order for the 4x4, the aftermarket wheels I have are 19.5 and they do last a lot longer, and I do have commercial insurance. Don’t know if it’s cheaper with a heavier class of truck until I call my agent.

 

[Tuesdak]

Friend of mind sheered the studs with a 1995 454 Chevy DRW on The Grapevine in CA. (And is still around to tell the story...) He had the tongue weight overloaded. Should have loaded the first car on the trailer backwards. Aftermarket wheels so I always wondered about the hub centric being a reason.

The hub bearings immediately burned out after the repair of replacing the ground down brake drum so we reminded him to grease the bearings or park sideways on a slope to get oil to the wheel bearings. He went on to burn out the transmission and finally got a Kodiak with a Cat diesel. Way cheaper to run hotshot freight including cars with longer tire life and less major problems.

I would replace all the rear studs at this time because the other side may be close to a fatigue limit.

 

[Wayne M.]

I really don't like how the pilot of the hub looks. Is that rust or anti seize? I agree with proper fitting wheels. Hard to beat OEM, but quality aftermarket like Alcoa or a premium brand like centerline or ultra shouldn't do this.


Now how does this grab ya?

This one came in with a vibration complaint. Here's the thing, when this happened, we were mandated to install wheel nut flags. You know those colorful triangle tip rings that go on the nuts to indicate nut movement. We came to find that since us Mechanics do not handle flats and such, they were leaving the flags on and "getting em to line up" afterwards, aka ovetightening and stretching the studs.
Never in my 30 years here have we seen this, and after we had a "understanding" it's calmed down. But once we got that particular wheel off, the studs looked exactly like yours. Broke flush with spiral fractures.

 

[run2trouble]

It is rust on mine.

I bet he has a hell of a vibration. I caught my moment on the dash cam, I made it across a bridge without hitting the concrete walls.

Make since about the flags, I always use a torque wrench.

 

[Newsa]

Hello,

I lost a set of duals the other night, was going down the road and it felt like I hit a pothole and the truck and trailer ended up in the other lane. I was able to recover and made it safely to the side of the road

I’m looking for thoughts on why this is happening, I had the left side do the same thing two years ago in Idaho.


In Idaho I had about 25k miles on the truck and the factory aluminum wheels, gross weight was 27k.

This time I have 195k miles on the truck and aftermarket wheels that have been on there for 50k miles or so and grossing just over 30k.

One mechanic thinks the drive axle on the truck has been overweight, another thinks the wheel studs weren’t tight.

On the first time, I recovered all 8 lugs and studs. This time all I could locate was one. On both occasions, I can spin the lug nuts off by hand.
View attachment 100294



Thanks for your thoughts.

I would have said loose lug nuts. But never had any experience with aftermarket wheels/rims. Who was the wheel manufacturer?

 

[run2trouble]

The wheels are vision style 181, 19.5”

The first time I had the factory aluminum wheels on when the left side failed. My feeling is that they were over torqued at some point in time. On both occasions I can remove the lug nuts from the studs by hand. I would think that if the nuts were loose, they would pull and push against the pitch of the threads and mar them and make make it difficult to desperate the two.

I’m not a mechanic, so that’s why I’m seeking info.

 

[Wayne M.]

The point is that since those guys were "getting the flags to line up" they overtightened and stretched the studs, and they broke.
Therefore I believe you're overtightening the wheels.
That rust tells me that your wheels haven't been seated properly in a while.
Those hubs need to be inspected very very closely for damage and straightness, and OE quality or better studs installed with the right fasteners to match the wheels, tightened properly.
For a dually that carries hay and feed, you might never have seen a problem. But since you're loading it pretty well, everything needs to be spot on.

 

[Newsa]

I have never encountered a tire shop that doesn't overtighten the lug nuts with their compressed air power tools.

But you would have to REALLY overtighten these lug nuts to stretch the studs. I think it would be a rare situation for that to happen

And most don't use a crossing pattern to seat the rims properly

 

[Wayne M.]

Thinking about this repeated stud failure. I'm wondering how they've been replaced before. Some guys like to draw them through the hub with washers and a backwards nut. This is not a good method, and could over stress the stud.
The proper method is to get the hub onto a shop press and press the studs through. This won't stress the weak part of the stud, which is the neck at the very end of the threads- where they're all failed.
Also, to the mention of greasing bearings earlier, please do not pack bearings in a full floating drive axle. The proper method to settle the oil level is on page 91 of the link below.

Refer to page 91 here --
http://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/gaxgNfjZwmf33Kmw3/axsm0046.pdf

 

[run2trouble]

Good point on pressing or pulling the studs, it was done at a ram dealer in ldaho. I can only hope it was done correctly the first time.

Thank you for link on filling the rear axle. I’ve judt always filled, waited, checked, filled, etc until it leveled out.

A far as I know the bearing have not been greased on the truck, all of that work has been at the dealer.

 

[Wayne M.]

run2trouble, (do you have a name?)
The thing is, the dealer (not knocking!) tech is on the clock, and will take the quick approach every time. I think you need a good driveline or truck repair shop that's going to assess the issue and take time and fix it right, because it looks like you need a rotor and who knows what else. So it has to all come apart. Too bad you're not in the NYC/NJ area. I'd tackle that job and monitor it.
Regarding the axle and greasing the bearings, you don't grease those particular bearings because they ride in the oil. If you do pack them, the oil won't travel to both bearings, and that's when the trouble starts.