2016 3500 Aisin poor throttle response

[SnoKing]

Maybe the trucks are not all that different................... it's a very subjective issue, we all have a different seat of the pants meter, and different driving styles and expectations.

Sam

^^^ The winning answer! As I posted earlier driving style plays into it. Get someone that is not having the problem drive your truck and see if it does it for them.

 

[Newsa]

^^^^ Welp, sounds like you need to trade down to a Ferd to make yourself happy ^^^^

There is a flaw with the programing in some of the cummins rams. It doesn't do cummins any favors to have this problem. Cummins ISB 6 7 is an impressive power plant that can shred any transmission you throw at it. I only bought the ram because of the avaiable manual transmission. Have been a chevy/GMC guy all my life. But, i have been impressed by all that I have read and experienced with the truck i bought. Not knocking anyones Aisin or 68RFE. Just saying Ram will lose business over this problem which could be fixed and should have been fixed. Trouble is (truth is) Ram is slow to respond to it's customers complaints and safety issues. This is why Ram was forced by the government to buy back some trucks. If Ram wants customers who are not long time Ram/Cummins brand loyal customers, they will need to do better.

 

[SnoKing]

There is a flaw with the programing in some of the cummins rams. It doesn't do cummins any favors to have this problem. Cummins ISB 6 7 is an impressive power plant that can rip apart any transmission you throw at it. I only bought the ram because of the avaiable manual transmission. Have been a chevy/GMC guy all my life. But, i have been impressed by all that I have read and experienced with the truck i bought. Not knocking anyones Aisin or 68RFE. Just saying Ram will lose business over this problem which could be fixed and should have been fixed. Trouble is (truth is) Ram is slow to respond to it's customers complaints and safety issues. This is why Ram was forced by the government to buy back some trucks. If Ram wants customers who are not long time Ram/Cummins brand loyal customers, they will need to do better.

And people with the problem need to report it via a complaint on www.safercar.gov

Chris

 

[kthaxton]

I have found, if you mash the pedal, you get very little response, but, if you push down about a 1/4 of the way and gradually give it more throttle, it will take off and usually out run about anything.

Me too. It seems the quicker I jab the pedal, the slower the response. The speed at which the pedal responds, is inversely proportional to how quickly you NEED it to respond.

 

[jgillott]

I really don't want to make this any more controversial of a thread, but I want to chime in with my recent experience. I have my '07 for sale and the 2016 I had the dealer get in for me is on the ground (3500 SRW Aisin) and ready to go. I teat drove it Saturday morning and it is doing it brand new. It is practically not driveable and I am not taking delivery. My salesman and the sales manager both drove the truck and agree that they wouldn't take it either.

So, my choice is to buy a 2017 G56 truck at another local dealer that is close to the same equipment that I wanted in the color I wanted, have them order another one with the Aisin, or wait to see if the service department can get the 2016 that they got in for me to run correctly.

I'm not mad, just extremely disappointed at the situation. My gut on Saturday was to purchase the 2017 G56, which runs really well. But, after thinking about it, I don't want to settle for something I didn't originally want.

Sorry to be venting out loud, but I've owned one or more of these things since 1992 and I didn't expect that this would be happening.

 

[MJWenrich]

I noticed the lag as well when test driving mine. Thought it could be solved by the service department. Huge and expensive mistake for me. The nay sayers that believe it's the driver and not the truck have never driven one of these. The factory rep said mine, with a 3-5 second delay in response, is not as bad as some that have much more delay. At the time, he thought it might be the Aison programming causing the problem but I guess some folks have had the problem in the 68RFE. Just many fewer. You might look for a truck with the RFE. That's what I would do if I had the choice now. Your towing needs might be different though.

Being a long time MOPAR fan I agree with your disappointment. I also appreciate your venting about this problem. More people need to know about it so they too, will not becomes victims of this issue.

 

[CBari]

I have made it completely disappear on my truck by locking it in second gear manually. I don't do this with a load but driving around down empty works well.

 

[KCJackson1]

Torque management is a band-aid for a money problem. Ford uses the Powerstroke/TorqShift combination in their F-650/750 rigs as well, so they needed to have a transmission that can do the job for all weight classes and power outputs - "torque management" in a Class 7 can get you killed when you're loaded to 37K straight, or have 60K combined with a trailer. The other trucks you see using Aisins are low-cab box trucks... no one building trucks that are expected to pull RVs, toy haulers, or hot-shots are using them. For automatics, those rigs use Allison and ZF, or automated manuals. If FCA needs torque management for the 68RFE to handle 800 lb-ft or for the AS69RC to handle 900, then they're not the right trannies for the job.

Problem is, FCA would have to charge even more for a suitable ZF automatic, even though the companies have a good relationship with the 8 and 9 speed units used in cars and light-duty trucks. If FCA can't build or contract a legit medium-duty automatic that can handle 1000 lb-ft without thinking, it won't matter how much more Cummins can turn up the output. And like the TorqShift with Ford, the Allison 1000 with GM, and the current 68RFE, it has to be available at no extra charge. That's the money problem - FCA can't afford the costs involved to build/buy such a trans without charging extra. Cummins can turn the new 2017 B6.7 to 425/925, but if it constantly has to de-fuel or delay under full throttle to keep the trans intact, what's the point?

I don't miss the lack of power in my 1996 12-valve (stock, didn't BOMB it), but I definitely miss the elegant simplicity of mechanical fuel injection and an old-fashioned throttle cable.

 

[jgillott]

I noticed the lag as well when test driving mine. Thought it could be solved by the service department. Huge and expensive mistake for me. The nay sayers that believe it's the driver and not the truck have never driven one of these. The factory rep said mine, with a 3-5 second delay in response, is not as bad as some that have much more delay. At the time, he thought it might be the Aison programming causing the problem but I guess some folks have had the problem in the 68RFE. Just many fewer. You might look for a truck with the RFE. That's what I would do if I had the choice now. Your towing needs might be different though.

Being a long time MOPAR fan I agree with your disappointment. I also appreciate your venting about this problem. More people need to know about it so they too, will not becomes victims of this issue.

Thank you for your reply. This is exactly why I had to walk away for a few days. MY current situation is that our 04.5 plows snow and is practically dead. It isn't worth putting a dime in it at this point. My brother-in law is going to keep it around for as long as he can to plow his driveway. Our 07 is beautiful and will run for a long time. I could just mount the plow and spreader on it and make due. But, plowing with a 6-speed isn't the best option.

So, I'm sort of stuck. I have been offered a fair trade in on the '07. On top of that, I've received 2 great offers to sell it private owner. And now, the truck that I wanted to replace 2 with isn't an option. I feel stupid if I don't do anything, but will feel even worse if I make a bad choice.

 

[dogbreath650]

And people with the problem need to report it via a complaint on www.safercar.gov

Chris

Complaint submitted...

 

[TCollier]

I can maybe get a "one Mississippi" lag before it lights off while inducing the lag with a quick let off and floor it at rolling stop. Reminds me of the old carbureted engines I drove when I was a teenager. I can see where that could be a common driving style for some. But 3 to 5 seconds, even on a fast count seems a stretch for it to be just driving style.
If it's a programming flaw and not every truck has it, then it would be pretty easy to find out and fix. Or if it's mechanical, again it's not every truck so they should be able to find the issue. What gives?

 

[2016HO]

I just talked to the dealer I bought the truck at and he told me the trucks all come with a 3-8 second delay to save the trans he even said some guys are refusing delivery also. So I asked him what was the point of paying $2,595 extra for the trans if it wont hold up? He wasn't sure he said he bought a 15 and had to have his programmed just to make it drivable but lost his warranty. I don't need to lose my warranty I know that. I called engineered diesel a local performance shop and they said they removed torque management on about 5 Aisin trucks and all smoked the transmissions. They said they require torque management just to stay together and they don't recommend any tuning (there goes that option). I also called the NHTSA and was told they can't do anything until there is a major accident, how ridiculous! I love my Ram trucks but this is really letting down my confidence in them its like they are going backwards when everyone else is going forwards.

 

[TCDiesel]

My 2013 & 14 Is way over 550HP WO TQ and the 69s at 30K miles is still strong as ever, 2 to 3 times weekly it pulls 24-28K GVW , have scale tickets to prove it.

If you have the fuel restrictors remove form the rail Half the leg is gone all the way threw the power band. The facts the Aisin is the 1st transmissions ( Dodge and GM) Don't own Fords.... in My life that made it pass 1K miles before I remove them and build them.

2016H0 If the leg is that bad you have choices, Back out of the deal is 1 of them. If you want a Race truck the GM/Fords are the ticket very fast in stock form, but it will come with additional cost in long term ownership the Ram just does NOT have.

And you really have to be careful who you listen to .

Its your Truck ,Your money and Your choices.

 

[spoon059]

I test drove a Powerstroke yesterday they told me it has no torque management and I believe them it would light up the tires at 10 mph with traction control off, my ram wouldn't do that on wet pavement, it would blow away any Ram.

Yea, they lied to you. Ford has torque management, as does GM. People want a smooth driving truck with ridiculous amounts of torque for the lowest possible price. You can't have all 3. The reality is that most people don't need the torque,they just like to be able to say that their truck has more torque then your truck. Its all childish, really.

Ram wants to build a truck that people aren't crying about it shifting hard and it costs too much money. The result is excessive torque management in lower gears to allow for smooth shifting in a reasonably affordable price point. Did the truck drive like that when you took your test drive? If so, then you knew what to expect. If you didn't test drive it... not sure you have much ground upon which to stand.

I have noticed that I can get my 68RFE to give me dead pedal if I mash on the accelerator, take my foot off and then mash it again. I've never experienced the dead pedal in any other circumstances in 15K miles of driving it. I'm not sure why it would be different on the Aisin, but it sounds like it might be.

By the way... did you really pay $11,600 for a Cummins/Aisin? I highly doubt that, *** that is MSRP for them. It seems a little advantageous to quote MSRP on Ram and more of an out the door price for GM and Ford. I get that you aren't happy and are trying to justify your position though...

 

[Deleted member 995608]

I just talked to the dealer I bought the truck at and he told me the trucks all come with a 3-8 second delay to save the trans he even said some guys are refusing delivery also. So I asked him what was the point of paying $2,595 extra for the trans if it wont hold up? He wasn't sure he said he bought a 15 and had to have his programmed just to make it drivable but lost his warranty. I don't need to lose my warranty I know that. I called engineered diesel a local performance shop and they said they removed torque management on about 5 Aisin trucks and all smoked the transmissions. They said they require torque management just to stay together and they don't recommend any tuning (there goes that option). I also called the NHTSA and was told they can't do anything until there is a major accident, how ridiculous! I love my Ram trucks but this is really letting down my confidence in them its like they are going backwards when everyone else is going forwards.

Removed torque management? You need a need diesel tech dude.

 

[SnoKing]

Yea, they lied to you. Ford has torque management, as does GM. People want a smooth driving truck with ridiculous amounts of torque for the lowest possible price. You can't have all 3. The reality is that most people don't need the torque,they just like to be able to say that their truck has more torque then your truck. Its all childish, really.

Ram wants to build a truck that people aren't crying about it shifting hard and it costs too much money. The result is excessive torque management in lower gears to allow for smooth shifting in a reasonably affordable price point. Did the truck drive like that when you took your test drive? If so, then you knew what to expect. If you didn't test drive it... not sure you have much ground upon which to stand.

I have noticed that I can get my 68RFE to give me dead pedal if I mash on the accelerator, take my foot off and then mash it again. I've never experienced the dead pedal in any other circumstances in 15K miles of driving it. I'm not sure why it would be different on the Aisin, but it sounds like it might be.

By the way... did you really pay $11,600 for a Cummins/Aisin? I highly doubt that, *** that is MSRP for them. It seems a little advantageous to quote MSRP on Ram and more of an out the door price for GM and Ford. I get that you aren't happy and are trying to justify your position though...

The Aisin has a stand alone computer control that is not integrated with the vehicles computers. It is not an adaptive learning transmission like RAM inhouse trannies. So I am not sure that "it" can tell the ECM to not fuel the engine. Where is the trans engineer guy??? SNOKING

 

[spoon059]

he told me the trucks all come with a 3-8 second delay.

WHAT? Come on dude, an EIGHT SECOND DELAY when you press the accelerator??? Come on, I'm not sure who is feeding you this nonsense, but you can't really believe that... can you?

 

[2016HO]

Sorry it's not nonsense I drive this truck everyday most days 100 plus miles sometimes it definitely has close to a 8 second delay. I think I would know seeing I've put 16,000 miles on in the last 6 months. It's not safe to drive if you are not farmiliar with it.

 

[RustyJC]

I guess ignorance is bliss. I bought the truck in my signature in May 2016. We went out on a 4000 mile trip in August and September towing our 19,000 lb GVWR 5th wheel. I haven't noticed any of this behavior that seems to be commonplace with the Aisin according to comments on this thread - and my previous Ram trucks include a 2011 3500 DRW with 68RFE, a 2002 3500 with NV5600 6-speed manual and a 1996 3500 with 47RE. We're getting ready to head out on another trip, so I'll try to pay more attention to see if I can figure out what ailment my truck has that I haven't noticed.....

Rusty

 

[spoon059]

Sorry it's not nonsense I drive this truck everyday most days 100 plus miles sometimes it definitely has close to a 8 second delay. I think I would know seeing I've put 16,000 miles on in the last 6 months. It's not safe to drive if you are not farmiliar with it.

Please, take a video and post it. I would love to see an EIGHT SECOND DELAY between pushing your accelerator and the vehicle responding. 8 seconds... really dude?