Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 230 Hp inj out of a ford?

[Heepdriver]

Just purchased on ebay they will get here any day. Any info that any one can jive is appreciated. Are they the same spray pattern as dodge or are they like marine inj. Do I install them with the copper washers that are on them or do i need an install kit and go with the thickest of the bunch.



I won an timing tool a couple a months ago and haven't used it so what is a good degree to go for with a pump stock setting I think is 12. 5, by the engine plate if I remember right.



Truck happens to be down with 5th out of the transmission ate in to the out put shaft. anybody know why the updated shaft with half moons collar fits so loose, its not installed yet just in the floor, but it feels loose.



thx in advance

 

[tp0d]

More than likely they will not work. ford uses an international engine (i think) and that isnt a cummins. I guess there is always a slim possibility, but I`d be guessing not. If nothing else, the pop-off pressure wouldnt be right due to the differences in the engines. Hope ya didnt pay much for em.



As for timing, you can find the current factory timing on the side of the timing gear case, if yer standing on the drivers side, looking in from the fender. Might have to clean it off though. I`d recommend no more than 3-4° past the current setting, unless you have some mean mods... . 16 or 17 is usually a good plateau



good luck



-jerry

 

[Andy Redmond]

I think he is referring to the injectors from a Ford Medium duty truck with a "Ford/Cummins" engine, which was likely a p-pumped 230 hp - 275hp engine.



Cummins offered a 230 kit for ram owners. It was a recalibrated injection pump and injectors and also a stronger wastegate. FWIW my opinion is that the injectors were where the extra ponies basically came from and the pump set on the high side and maybe a different Bosch fuel plate.



I have a customer that has the three pieces for sale that was on his 96 ram, he had us reinstall the 180 pump and injectors as he is selling the truck.



I would likely use the med. thickness washer (oem).



Sounds like you have wear in your transmission that may require an overhaul. Look on the web for quad4x4, Dan the owner, suggests that the 5th gear upgrades and fully splined main shafts may not be the ultimate solution as a fix. He's selling his version, but his piece seemed well written. Like anything these days the quality of the parts will likely produce the best rebuild.



On timing you were advised well, should you advance it. You are adding xxx mm of pump plunger lift vs the stock setting. I think you are at 5. 7mm stock (175 hp manual)? each decimal "10th" after the 5 is 1/2 degree of time. So 5. 8=13 deg. , 5. 9=13. 5 deg. 6. 0=14. Use a chart for you specific CPL, but you get the idea. IE 1550 CPL etc. . 15-16 deg is plenty and a little easier on the headgasket.



I think such a chart is still on the Piers Diesel site. You Cummins manuals or Dodge FSM will also have this data and good instructions on the alteration of such.



Good luck

Andy

 

[SRadke]

I'm trying to remember but I thing the gear slides on, then either a bellview (sp?) washer or the two half moons. At any rate, the half moons sit in their groove with a larger washer around them to keep them in place then the whole setup is sandwiched between the gear and the nut. Look at the pieces you've got, it should be pretty straight forward.



-Scott

 

[Heepdriver]

I'm trying to remember but I thing the gear slides on, then either a bellview (sp?) washer or the two half moons. At any rate, the half moons sit in their groove with a larger washer around them to keep them in place then the whole setup is sandwiched between the gear and the nut. Look at the pieces you've got, it should be pretty straight forward.



-Scott

The run down 94 Auto(160 HP would hardly push 12#'s of boost, Never broke 825 EGT after turbo, never smoked no matter what) converted w/97 nv4500 and t-case. transmission had the NV update as referenced from the Quad 4X4 site on the nut. Injectors are for an Ford Cummins F-700 Dump truck rated @ 230 HP, 605 TQ I think.



Andy by med washer (OEM) do you mean the ones that come on the inj. , or OEM for a dodge? And do you happen to Know the spray angle?



Sradke the large washer around the two half moons has a 1/8 " of play, My kit only has one other washer and it came in the nut package and is not splined. I assumed it was to hold half moons from nut side against the gear, am I missing pieces? I wanted the Quad 4x4 repair kit With a cut gear and what not but my shaft was worn under the output bearing( it just slid off) so I needed a main shaft. they are not selling their main shaft without a rebuild in house for like $1800, and I can't do that. I'll post picks of pieces latter.



thanks for the advice anything else to add is appreciated.



the truck now pushes 30#'s o boost n 1100 Egt no problem,and rolls the smoke Oo.

 

[SRadke]

It's been too long, I'm sketchy on the details. You mean to say Quad doen't sell the fully splined shaft by itself? Sounds odd. The one I put in was from Standard Trans, and it was several years ago. All i remember was the two half moons with a washer over tham and a curved spring washer. I don't remeber if that was the same washer or two diffrent ones Afraid I may not be much help to you. My advice, call the people that sold you the shaft.



-Scott

 

[Andy Redmond]

"Heep":



I do not know the spray angle. I recommend taking them to a Bosch shop for pop testing and they might disassy one to get the nozzle # and then might back into the spray angle from the part number?



On the copper sealing washer, the medium thickness that comes in a reseal kit such as Dipaco DPZE B5. 9? (aftermarket seals and return line "horseshoes"). I ran out and compared the "230 injectors" that came in the Cummins 230 hp kit (discussed earlier) and they had the medium washers installed on them. The dial calipers weren't handy so I didn't measure it. .

The Cummins part no for the injectors I reference are:3802625RX, they have 5 holes. You might have your Bosch shop compare them. .



I'm guessing the Ford application was emission "friendly" for the genre. Are you familiar with "EPA" and non-EPA Cummins B Series Pistons? The oem for the Dodge (and likely the engine the injectors came from) have a piston top that has a recess in middle of the piston top and the center of the piston has a "pine knot" sized casting (in the recess/bowl). The industrial / off road/marine apps often use a similar piston but the top/bowl looks the the knot aforementioned was machined and resembles a childs "toy top" with the "pointy-end" up, in the center of the piston. Other differences to the pistons are piston rings and ring groove/gland positions on the sides of the piston.



That's why the thin (. 020) washers are used for the 370 marine injectors etc. with "epa" (Dodge pistons). We are trying to make a happy spray angle for an injector that "works better" with the industrial piston top (bowl) than with the EPA piston.



Scott,



Look at the Quad 4x4 site. They have a new shaft set up. The arcticle on the site discusses the "inadequacies" of the fully splined main shaft that they and others sell/previously sold. I think Heep has the prior quad 4x4 shaft and rebuild kit that retailed for $900 or so.





Have fun

Andy

 

[SRadke]

From the Quad site:



"Due to high demand and limited supply, our American made, Torque King™ Mainshafts and matching gears are currently only available in QUAD 4x4 new or rebuilt transmissions. "



This means to me they used to sell them separatly but are short on supply now so they've stopped. I understand the inadequacies, it's mainly due to high performance engines bolted to a gearbox rated at less than 600 ft/lbs of torque. What do we expect?



-Scott

 

[NBowlin]

"What do we expect?"

Nothing less than miracles Sir

 

[SRadke]

"What do we expect?"

Nothing less than miracles Sir

Hey, I'll take a miracle anytime. I'd much rather have luck than rely on talant



-Scott

 

[Heepdriver]

Thanks for all the advice and info. On the subject of fuel shops in the area. I don't know of one and the only shop i have spoken to that was any help was Power by Poole, a TDR member that I contacted due to this site.



The Main shaft I got didnot come from Quad 4x4, kinda wish it had I have called them and did order stuff from them, but I try to spend what I can localy. I am a one man buisness and appreciate when my customers deal with me instead of the bigger out fits and I try to take the same approach. But what i needed Tools and Small parts and such come from Quad 4x4, great folks. The output shaft I have is fully splined, the one I want is 4x4's partially splined, non spline supported 5th gear bad boy of a shaft. woooooooo