2nd Gen brake upgrade?

[OldCrank]

Sick of babysitting my underbuilt brake system. Is there a company offering a PROVEN upgrade kit? Interesting that Dodge decided to upgrade the brakes on the new Ram, are they retrofittable? Thanks, BK

 

[ram2nv]

brakes!!!

Mr. BKelly, have you had any help in your brake needs?? I too have questions on the brake system. I had mine FAIL coming out of Ouray Co. last weekend, NOT a pleasant feeling going into town with NO BRAKES!!!!!!!!! (FULLY LOADED TRUCK also) I made it to the city park and got stopped in there. Sat for two hrs. and still had no brakes. Got towed to Montrose, were the shop tried to bleed them but could not do the fronts, finally got a little brake and made it back to Ogden,Ut. Have had no other problems since. We have pulled that trip before and never had a problem. Brakes are less than 3mos old, all factory parts also. Let me know if you have any ideas also. Thanks Perry

 

[Jetson]

Ram2nv, your post brought up something I noticed. I have recently switched to Carbon Metallic front pads, which seem to stop better when they are warm. But the main thing that may pertain to your problem is that I even more recently but on Speed Bleeders and flushed out the old fluid (52,000 miles). The strange thing is that it seems to brake better. So maybe there was a little air from the factory or a problem with the fluid. Obviously, if there was air in the fluid the brakes would be less responsive, and when really stressed could vapor lock as in your case. You might try new fluid and bleeding. It's much easier with the Speedbleeders. http://www.speedbleeder.com/

 

[SteveH]

Originally posted by Jetson

Ram2nv, your post brought up something I noticed. I have recently switched to Carbon Metallic front pads, which seem to stop better when they are warm. But the main thing that may pertain to your problem is that I even more recently but on Speed Bleeders and flushed out the old fluid (52,000 miles). The strange thing is that it seems to brake better. So maybe there was a little air from the factory or a problem with the fluid. Obviously, if there was air in the fluid the brakes would be less responsive, and when really stressed could vapor lock as in your case. You might try new fluid and bleeding. It's much easier with the Speedbleeders. http://www.speedbleeder.com/

Do you know if Dodge uses one size for all their pickups? Does the 1 ton take the same speedbleeders as the 3/4, etc. ? How did you figure out which one of them to order without taking out one of the old ones and measuring it to the best of your ability?

 

[Jetson]

The speedbleeder people have charts for most vehicles. You give them your truck info and they'll know which ones fit.

 

[OldCrank]

Appreciate the input.



I have the brake fluid changed regularly, both at the 30K service intervals and whenever the pads are replaced. Cheap insurance. My experience with doing it on customer vehicles has shown a tremendous difference in performance and feel. Throw the towing issue into the mix and it becomes even more important. I haven't tried the carbon/metallic pads.



More to the point though, I'm not impressed with the brake system at all. Since day one, we have had to periodically fight brake pull (either direction), shudder, and poor stopping power-particularly when towing (I can't even imagine having to stop some of the rigs that our fellow TDR members describe). To the dealer's credit, the brakes feel fine for a while, but they start to deteriorate pretty quickly. I've let the dealer handle the maintenance on this truck since new because I don't have time for it, but I would happily make the time available to put larger discs and calipers on the front along with braided steel hoses, and to put a disc system on the rear, if the kit or parts were available. Love the truck, hate the brakes...

 

[dan_gilson]

Carbon Metalic brakes caution

I have had some experience with Carbon brake

pads and here are some note:



They don't fad! This is good especially on that

long downhill grade heavily loaded. Keep in mind that you can still epand the drums such that it will reduce the rear braking to the point of fad.



They don't glaze which is nice to maintenance.



They don't stop well when cold. So that 1st

stop sign in the morning can get really

exciting. So can that panic stop when you

have not used them for a while. Like when

you are just cruz'en down the freeway and

someone cuts you off to make that off ramp.



The will wear out rotor and drums much faster

than normal brakes. On my RX-7 it was almost

1:1. Which means that when the pad was used

so were the rotors. Which is a real pain

on the front axel of the 4x4. This adds to the overall expense (TCO).



The are expensive (but a lot cheaper than an

accident!).



You will need higher temperature brake fliud.

I use Moltul which is a Dot3 but 600F rather

than the Dot4 at 450F. I just bleed more often to get around the DOT3 issues.



General note: If there is every any question

that the brake fluid has been around too long

I get another bottle.

Moltul tends to only come in 1 liter bottles

and it still picks up water if opened too long. If you used an open bottle and have just

bleed and you get a soft pedal.

Buy another bottle and bleed again because

it has pick up enough water to cause problems.



I would recommend Carbon Kevlar rather than

Carbon Metallic. They do not require as much

heat to work good. The bedding in is easier.

They are less expensive (~1/2 of Carbon metalic) and are a better compromise for street use.

Do not go with a hard pad.

Pick medium or less for street.

 

[SteveH]

I really liked the idea of the speedbleeders that Jetson talked about. I called the company, left messges. E-mailed the company several times. The only response I got was to ask me what model my truck was, when the model was already on the e-mail they had in their hand. So far, they have not returned a call or again e-mailed me. I wanted to buy a set of their stainless steel bleeders with the bottle of thread sealant. I now wonder about the legitimacy of a company that will not even try to get back to a customer who had the credit card out ready to shuck out the money. I called again today, no one there and no return call!

 

[NVR FNSH]

Quick - somebody start a flame about how bad a company Speedbleeder is cause their customer service sucks



Brian

 

[Bob Cochran]

Just got new TDR Mag issue 33 with new Geno's catalog and I think they are being sold by Geno's. Least they sure looked like them!

 

[Bill Lins]

The News section of the Speedbleeder site mentions that they are in the process of moving their facility to another town- might be why they haven't responded. Cut 'em some slack!

 

[SteveH]

A couple of you guys sound like you got up constipated today, a little testy like maybe the wife's been naggin at ya a lot here lately. Lighten up!! Yes it is aggravating not to hear from a company when they have a product you are interested in. YES, I did cut them some slack. NO, I'm not going to start a thread telling about how sorry the company is. I did get an answer this evening from a lady there in their NEW store and the speedbleeders are on the way. Hope you guys aren't this critical of all posts you are not in agreement with.

Steve H

 

[KatDiesel]

Bob Cochran -

I deleted the other thread you started by mistake.

 

[bigfig]

Bkeller, don't feel too bad, we've got a 2001. 5 with disc brakes in the rear and whenever we tow even a light 3000 pd trailer and have to hit the brakes we get a weird shudder we haven't been able to fiure out. Maybe it's the brake material the factory uses, or maybe the ABS system. It stops great when we aren't towing anything, though.

 

[willyslover]

Russel co. also makes speed bleeders . . available at Summit Racing and auto parts places. . jegs ect ect

do not know if they stock for our rams though. . their list is very estensive. . use them on my CJ7 and love them !! [one man job. . no WIFE help. . OH Honey did you want the peddle held down ]

 

[OldCrank]

Brake thoughts...

This link to STOPTECH contains some outstanding technical info on brake systems, upgrades and some very good cautionary info.



http://www.stoptech.com/technical/



Based on the extensive searching I've done, and the posts you've supplied, here's my basic thoughts on what to do/not do.

1) There is very little in the aftermarket specifically for Dodge Rams in terms of comprehensive kits that address the actual shortcomings of this brake system. Individual pieces, such as the previously discussed pads and bleeders and fluids are readily available, and obviously useful, but that's about it. There is a rear disc brake conversion kit available, but after reading the technical papers at the above link. I'm pretty much convinced that it would be an unnecessary and expensive addition.

2) I've done the stainless steel braided hose conversion before on a '74 PowerWagon and was very pleased with the result. That will be most likely my first project since it is not dependent upon any other modifications and the downtime is minimal. The only issue will be putting the correct pieces together as once again, the hoses are apparently not available in changeover kit form for my (or any) Ram. There are several suppliers available, however, and I will pass along any part numbers and info once it's completed.

3) I'm going to look into the floating discs and upgraded calipers for the front end some more. Again, the info at the link above has some very convincing arguments for moving that way. Of particular interest was learning more from various sites about the differences in braking principles between slotted, drilled and floating discs. I'll pass along any part/installation info also, and my impressions of the results.

4) Other than the temporary effects of water entering the rear brakes after unloading or trailering my boat, I haven't had a direct problem with the rear brakes. At this point, I can't see a reason to do anything with them except continuing to change the fluid regularly.

Thanks for the help, I'll keep ya posted. BK

 

[Extreme1]

Braided Steel Lines

I contacted the 2 major player in this market (Earls & Russel) and they both stated they would be reviewing their markets and would probably have something out in the next year.

 

[Bob Cochran]

KatDiesel~Thanks I must have been asleep last night!!!!!

 

[dan_gilson]

One other throught...

I am assuming that you have considered or are

planning, or have installed an

exhuast brake before upgrading all the

corners. It will atleast get you back to

where a gas engine is in terms of engine

braking. - I failed to mention in my

previous post. I still will not help

in those panic situations but can keep

you out of problems in the first place.

 

[OldCrank]

Exhaust brake option etc.

The exhaust brake is an interesting option, and may end up as an addition since I tow fairly often, however I'm under the impression it is intended more for stopping while towing, especially on downhill grades; more of a brake assist than a primary stopper. I have trouble just driving the unhitched truck around town. If I'm full of exhaust gas, straighten me out.

By the way, I just ordered a set of teflon/stainless steel braided hoses from a company called Classic Tube (www.classictube.com) over on the right coast. They are DOT legal and feature a 1 " nylon sheath at each end to prevent kinking. The ends are crimped, not screwed together. Expensive, but hey, she's worth it. I'll do a post with all the info after I install'em.

Thanks, BK