3500, AT, 4:10 owners I would like to hear from you

[Tagalong]

(I posted this on the 2nd Gen Eng. /Driveline Forum but it should be in this forum)
I would appreciate hearing about your towing experiences, i. e. towing at combined weight rating (between 16k to 20k), towing in 3rd and OD... STOCK CUMMINS, AT & 4:10.
Thanks in advance.

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White 2001, 3500, Auto,3:54,QC,2WD,LB,34' DBL slide Cardinal 5er

[This message has been edited by Tagalong (edited 02-13-2001). ]

 

[Crackerjake]

Tagalong, I've got a 32' Spinnaker triple slide that loaded weighs about 13M. I did'nt get my truck until late Sept. so, I only pulled a couple of times. I had no problems at all. I am getting ready to do some mods to the transmission( valve body, pressure loc,torq loc and mag tec pan), exhuast brake and diablo power puk. We're going to be in some mountains on a trip this year so I wanted a little protection for the transmission and a little extra horsepower. Sorry to be so long winded. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Koa Man]

Wow, don't know how many "stock" Cummins you are going to find on this forum.


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1996 3500 Clubcab SLT, auto, 4. 10 limited-slip, TST #5, 370s, AFC spring kit, Psychotty, Dunrite converter, Trans-Go, DiPricol EGT, boost & trans temp. gauges, 9 ft. aluminum flatbed and tool boxes with Venco dump. Custom front bumper, Hadley air horn, PowerVision mirrors & 4" Stack Exhaust.

 

[Bill Stockard]

Tagalong,

I towed a 31'Hitchhiker II with 2 slideouts with a 97 3500 auto 4. 10(GCW 19,750 lbs) for nearly 70,000 miles. 95% of our towing is done in the western US(mountains). The engine was totally stock--the top had never been off the pump. I towed in overdrive all the time except when the speed dropped and engine RPM dropped to 1800, then I shifted down manually(punched the o/d button). I never waited for the transmission to shift--too late and you will have lost all your speed and RPMs. The same thing when going from 3rd to second--let up on the throttle and pull the shift lever down then back on the throttle.

I traded trucks for a '00 3500 6 speed because I just got sick tired of the way the automatic shifted. The shift from o/d to direct took way too long and the truck/trailer speed would fall a good 10-15 MPH while the transmission would go through the shifting sequence. When towing in o/d with the torque converter locked up and you pushed the button, the transmission would go from o/d lockup to unlock to direct to direct lockup. That seemed to take forever and if you do it under a very heavy throttle it wouldn't go back into direct(3rd) gear lockup. If it didn't go into lockup, the torque converter slipping would heat up the transmission rapidly.

I put a "mystery switch" on the so I could force it to unlock the torque converter or would hold it in lockup to be able to use the PacBrake. The automatic did OK towing otherwise. Just the way the engineers had it set up was irritating.

I would go back to an automatic again so my wife could drive, but not until they have an automatic that will shift gears and the torque converter stays locked up in all gears except maybe 1st like the Allison. Also the torque converter dumps lots of heat in the engine cooling system via the coolant to oil cooler on the right side of the engine block. On long grades with the outside air temps above 90 degrees, you will have to keep a close watch on your engine temp gauge because it will get very close to the 230 mark.

At nearly 70,000 miles the torque converter lockup clutch was beginning to shudder on lockup at slow speeds. I couldn't let it lockup under very heavy throttle unless we were going 55-60 MPH. I controlled the lockup with either the throttle by holding it down or using the mystery switch.

My advice would be to get a transmission temperature gauge and watch it closely on long grades. The higher the RPM, the cooler it will run(less slip in the torque converter). There have been many times when I could shift down to 2nd with the Rs near the governor instead of lugging along in 3rd with the engine coolant, EGTs, and transmission temps going to the top of the gauges. You 'll find if you slow down a bit and shift down and keep the RPMs up the truck will do a pretty good job. At the higher elevations, you'll even pass the gasoline rigs too!!

Good luck!

Bill


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Y2K 3500QC, 6 Speed, 4. 10, SLT+, Camper & Tow Pkg. , Westin Chrome Nerf Bars, Mopar Flaps, Reese 20K Hitch, EGT & Boost Gauges, RPM 45 Gallon Aux. Fuel Tank, Highway Products 5th Wheel Toolbox, ECM Controlled PacBrake, Painless Wiring Kit, Mag-Hytec Diff. Cover, Rancho 9000, Air Lift 5000 Air Bags, TOYS: '97 Hitchhiker II 31' 5th Wheel, 2 slideouts, 19,750 GCW, '94 Lance 990 11' 3" Slide-In Camper, Torque-Lift Camper Tiedowns

 

[Barry]

Excellant post Bill! I have a good friend who is finally converting to diesel but is stubbornly wanting to hang on to the automatic. He will be ordering his new truck this week and trading in his 99 V10 3500 4X4 with 20K. I have helped him spec the new truck but we disagree regarding the trannie. He pulls a 32' triple slide Teton that grosses 18K... ... ... The V10 he has runs in 3rd gear and gets 5mpg.

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2001 2500 QC, ETH/DEE,4:10s, LSD, EZ with elbow(26. 5PSI) Boost/Pyro Guages, 4" Turbo back, BD Brake,Mag-Hytec Cover, Kleen Wheels, Energy Release, 70 gal. fuel, 20K Reese. 25,000 Miles on 01/30/01(RV Dealer)

 

[Tagalong]

Thanks for the replies folks.
Crackerjake, sounds like both of us will be in the "student's chair!" Good luck with your Spinniker.
Koa Man, you ain't kiddin!! When I use the word stock in this forum I can hear a collective sigh from the PC!!! #ad

Bill S. excellent reply. Fortunately, most of our driving for the next few years will be along the east coast. By the time we head out West we should have plenty of experience and perhapes Allison will become the transmission of champions #ad

In the mean time I'll have to practice "manually" shifting my AT
Thanks again for all the info guys.

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White 2001, 3500, Auto,3:54,QC,2WD,LB,34' DBL slide Cardinal 5er

 

[JSchooley]

Tagalong,

I've been watching your posts with interest on your concerns and the replys.

I've run my truck stock and bombed and can switch back and forth. My brother has the same basic setup except 3:54 rear end.

My comments to you are

1. You appear to be a very conciencious person and have carefully researched areas that you have a concern. Most of us don't and should, or should have.

2. I think the basic Dodge trucks are very beefy and you will enjoy many miles of trouble free service. Most problems occur from users bombing them and expecting the stock parts to take it.

3. Most important. Any machine will last a lot longer when regarded with respect. Bill's reply was right on the money. Be patient and don't shift under full power. The delay for the transmission to go into lockup is an eternity, but keeping it there greatly reduces transmission temp and the temp is what destroys the transmission.

Good luck and enjoy.

John

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John S. '99 QC 1T 4. 11 A/T Leather Driftwood, 50 Gal aux tank/tool box, gearvendors, BD brake/autolok, BD ISB comp, guages, BD Pressure Lock and Pract. Sol. Boost Elbow.

Just a Little BOMBed and liking it a lot.

 

[B.G. Smith]

I know you don't want to hear from us with the 3. 54s but I tow a 5th wheel with a gcvw of 19,400 and I run in OD except going up the biggies. I have 54,000 on the truck now. With the 4. 10 you should be in good shape. bg

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White 99 3500, QC, 3:55, auto. most options except leather, Line-X bed liner, fiberglass running boards Rancho 9000s, bug shield and window vents, black vented 5th wheel tailgate, 110 gal. aux. fuel tank.

 

[Tagalong]

Great replies folks! Just what I needed to hear.
JSchooley, your comments are most welcome. I've only driven the Ram 3k+ miles and only a handful with the 5er before winter set in. I really needed to make up my mind before the towing season because I made such a fuss at the dealershop during the closing about their failure to complete the "Job Rating Chart" with us. (Anyone reading this and are planning to make a Ram purchase, make sure you get the salesperson to complete that chart with you. If many of you have not seen it, get a copy of it. It consists of a complete workup sheet of truck, its ratings and you supply all the "numbers" of the vehicle you'll be towing. It has places for SIGNATURES for all parties. SOUNDS PRETTY LEGAL TO ME!) Without hesitation they agreed to change the rear gear set at NO CHARGE. I also believe there are MANY other 3500 Ram AT owners who got caught by the 20K GCVWR in the catalog.
B. G. Smith, I apprecieate your input, and I realize the 3:54s will do the job, I really struggled with this decision (my wife thinks I'm crazy) and I hope I don't regret it! Your combined weight is just over mine so I know I'll continue to wonder if I'm doing the right thing.
I'll be installing transmission and EGT gauges and tow between 55 and 65 mph. I also maintain a CDL and have a great deal of respect for the over-the-road truckers, but the everyday driver is the person I count on to do the unexpected. In the past I didn't have the power to pull with any real response to the peddle so I hope the Cummins and 4:10s will be a change for the better. When I first set out to buy this RAM I anticipated it being OVER RATED, at least with the 4:10s I'll be close to it.
Thanks for the terrific suggestions.

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White 2001, 3500, Auto,3:54,QC,2WD,LB,34' DBL slide Cardinal 5er

 

[pwr2tow]

Tagalong, Please tell me more about this job rateing chart, i have never heard of it and i have been talking to customer service about changeing my gear ratio to 4:10, sounds like the ammo i need to get them off their butts and take me serious #ad
. I have a thread going in another forum here in the TDR it is titled; 4:10 RPM and auto. Any information you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Ron

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1999, 3500, 6x6, slt, auto, 3. 54, Qd cab, ISB cummins, towing 2001 26RKSS Tahoe 5th wheel, 1999 120hp 1800 bayliner.

 

[pwr2tow]

Barry, if your friend is going to tow that much weight with the auto then he definately needs 4:10 gears, Thats my opinion and he will not get much better mileage then he got with the V10 2-5 mpg more, weeellll i guess that is alot more. #ad
Regards, Ron

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1999, 3500, 6x6, slt, auto, 3. 54, Qd cab, ISB cummins, towing 2001 26RKSS Tahoe 5th wheel, 1999 120hp 1800 bayliner.

 

[Tagalong]

Ron,
Just before our new Ram came in somebody on the TDR posted a suggestion to another member (before I registered) stating "be sure to read the window sticker GCVWR. " After I read it and saw the 16k combined rating I went nuts #ad

The salesperson had almost NO reaction... "it was exactly what you ordered" I was told. That's right... the brochure I read said 20K but NO indication that the AT dropped the rating. That was listed in ANOTHER Ram catalog. I called the DC 800 number, connected with a tech rep and told him of my delima. He said didn't the sales rep. complete a Job-Rating Chart. When I told him no I sensed he was not going to get in the middle of this and the conversation was basically over. Thinking I was going to EAT this 2k under rated truck, on the day of the closing I asked to speak to the Sales Manager. I asked him if he knew of the Job-Rating Chart. He said he had at one of the 5Star seminars. I simply said, "then why didn't my salesperson go through it with me..... no response! I never realized just how much I had them, I asked for the gear set change. He agreed without hesitation. MY ERROR WAS TAKING DELIVERY OF THE TRUCK, I SHOULD HAVE TOLD THEM TO EAT IT AND REORDER ME THE APPROPRIATE TRUCK.
The form is the "Dodge Job-Rated Truck Selector. " The following sections are identified on this form; Customer information, etc.
Next, "Contain" Includes lines to list weight amounts for passenger(s), cargo, options,
Conventional Trailer and tongue weight (15%)
Fifth-Wheel and king pin weight (25%), Total payload, Is 4 wheel drive necessary, TRUCK MODEL SELECTED.
Next, "Support" Includes what the truck is used for and there are two bold type, framed WARNINGS about when the vehcile is OVERLOADED either by GVWR and GCWR.
Next, "MOVE" Includes available drivetrain combinations... and RECOMMENDED DRIVETRAIN.
And last... . a framed block for the CUSTOMER SIGNATURE AND DATE!!
It's all there isn't it !!! Think that's LEGAL???
I've read many posts stating that it is the customers responsibilty when it comes to ordering the appropriated tow vehcile... now maybe many of you out there will see that I thought I did. Clearly, if the salesperson worked me through this form I wouldn't have the truck in my Sig. I have recommended to the dealership that this form become a requirement to be completed with ANY vehicle purchased for heavy duty requirements.
... . and that's the rest of the story!
I hope this helps Ron and anyone else planning to purchase a HD vehicle.

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White 2001, 3500, Auto,3:54,QC,2WD,LB,34' DBL slide Cardinal 5er