3500 SRW Towing 18K Concerns

[TMRoper1669]

Is towing a 40' Cyclone with a GVWR of 18K too much for my SRW. I checked the owners manual before we bought this and it said I should be fine but after pulling it home today I stopped and weighed it and it weighted 24,700 lbs without cargo or water.

 

[RVTRKN]

Your talking about GCVW? You need to weigh every axle and the trailer axles. I'll assume you have triple axles for your toy hauler. This is asked all the time and you will read answers you don't want to hear, however you need to weigh your truck with a full tank, with the combination connected. Make sure to have enough water in the fresh water tank for toilet use with all of your tanks empty. Then weigh your rig empty and get the Steer and Drive axle weight and your trailer axles weight. Look at your tag on your door for the GAWR (gross allowed weight rating) for each axle, if your over any of the advertised GAWR on that sticker your 5ver is too big. If your just at the ratings but not over, then you have some hard decisions to make. You can add weight to the rear of the 5ver axles, in hope of lowering your pin weight on your drive axle.

 

[RVTRKN]

Your truck can handle that weight if it's within your GAWR's of the axles, but you can become your own warranty station if it is over DODGE'S GCVWR which will be lower then what you can legally tow when at the GAWR plus trailer.

 

[TMRoper1669]

I was looking at the GCVWR of the truck and it's 25K. Guess I won't be putting the RZR in my new toy hauler.

 

[RVTRKN]

You need to know your weight on your axles, that is the key to being DOT legal, the 6.7 CTD is capable of 30k+. DOT can care less about DODGE's GCVWR, but they will enforce the axle weight ratings advertised on your door. A buddy of mine tows his huge triple axle toy hauler with his 2001 CTD 2500 SWB and all his toys and the gas tank & fresh water tanks are full, but he fills the tanks just before Glamis.

 

[TMRoper1669]

I hardly ever got out of state and I have never seen DOT check any RV in this state. I'm not too worried about DOT I'm worried that Dodge will have my head if something breaks.

 

[RVTRKN]

Then you need to stay within Dodges GCVWR which will restrict you severely with what your pulling, as well as still staying within the axle weights of your truck.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Biggest concern is watch your pin weight! Tires can be overloaded.

Personally I think that is too much tail for the dog!

 

[AH64ID]

24.7K was GCW or Trailer weight?? I am going to guess GCW, which means the trailer weighs around 17K lbs.

As others have stated your rear axle will be your limit, mainly tires as the axle is rated the same, by AAM, for SRW or DRW... Don't exceed the tire/wheel ratings, which I think are 7K if you have 18's.

Assuming you have an auto trans you are within the GCWR, if the scaled weight was GCW. You will be slightly over once you load water or cargo.

The pin weight is 3200 dry, and could go up or down depending on loading and weight of your toys...

A scale will tell you for sure, but your close to exceeding tire/wheel ratings.

Go back to the scale and get some better weights, such as rear axle alone, and see where you are at.

 

[Bohemian]

You are overweight on your rear axle and over your payload. The most common missed spec in 5th wheel towing.

Payload includes everything loaded into the truck, all the factory options, all the after market options, all the people, dogs, cats, the 5th wheel hitch, the pin weight of the trailer, You get an allocation for one 150 lb, driver and one full tank of fuel in the factory supplied fuel tank on the max payload spec.

 

[AH64ID]

You are overweight on your rear axle and over your payload.

Only based on a door sticker, which is not legal nor is it the end all of ratings for a 3500 SRW... which is commonly missed or misunderstood by many.

Tires on a SRW HD pickup will be the limiting factor 99% of the time, even my 4500lb/ea 19.5's are the limiting factor for my rear axle.

Payload on a HD truck is a joke.. why give a truck a FAWR+RAWR of 12,700 but a GVWR that is lower?? Especially when the frame has a 14Klb GVWR??? What is unsafe about it? All the components can handle it.

Many people don't understand, and some don't want/care to, but door sticker ratings are based more on brochure and sales than actual ratings... which is fine, but not the legal truth.

 

[RustyJC]

Many people don't understand, and some don't want/care to, but door sticker ratings are based more on brochure and sales than actual ratings... which is fine, but not the legal truth.

Legal truth has more than one aspect - in this case, there's DOT enforcement legal, and then there's tort law. As far as tort law is concerned, the door sticker values represent the manufacturer's legal ratings for the vehicle.

Rusty

 

[Bohemian]

Really, some say the weak point is tires, some wheels, some springs, some axles and diff. Who is right? Obviously not all of the people who upgrade one point or a couple points of weakness are correct. The list can be much longer.

The single greatest expense for commercial trucking is problems associated with overweight operation. Both repair and safety related expenses.

 

[AH64ID]

Really, some say the weak point is tires, some wheels, some springs, some axles and diff. Who is right? Obviously not all of the people who upgrade one point or a couple points of weakness are correct. The list can be much longer.

The single greatest expense for commercial trucking is problems associated with overweight operation. Both repair and safety related expenses.

That's where proper research and understanding comes into play.

Legal truth has more than one aspect - in this case, there's DOT enforcement legal, and then there's tort law. As far as tort law is concerned, the door sticker values represent the manufacturer's legal ratings for the vehicle.

Rusty

What makes the mfgr ratings legal? Tort law doesn't really apply, since there is no legal requirement to follow the mfgr ratings. " First, the plaintiff must establish that the defendant was under a legal duty to act in a particular fashion." If there is no legal duty (at least not that I have found searching the Idaho codes) then tort law cannot be enacted.

If I was violating DOT laws and code then yes, I could be found liable with Tort law.

Tires are what will get a pickup most of the time, the sidewall weight limits are enforceable.

 

[Bohemian]

That's where proper research and understanding comes into play.



What makes the mfgr ratings legal? Tort law doesn't really apply, since there is no legal requirement to follow the mfgr ratings. " First, the plaintiff must establish that the defendant was under a legal duty to act in a particular fashion." If there is no legal duty (at least not that I have found searching the Idaho codes) then tort law cannot be enacted.

If I was violating DOT laws and code then yes, I could be found liable with Tort law.

Tires are what will get a pickup most of the time, the sidewall weight limits are enforceable.

Sorry, I am more concerned about safety, durability, and reliability than tort law. I trust engineers and standards more than lawyers, and guesses.

 

[AH64ID]

Sorry, I am more concerned about safety, durability, and reliability than tort law. I trust engineers and standards more than lawyers, and guesses.

What are the guesses??

Why is 12K on a SRW more wear on the axle, frame, and suspension than a DRW? They are the same components.

How does that effect durability?

What is unsafe about operating withing design specs?

This is the common misunderstanding, the basic 2500 and 3500 DRW have more parts in common than most people realize and especially the 3500 SRW vs DRW in 13+ since the 2500 has a different suspension. There are actually very few differences.

The engineers have stated their ratings, those ratings are then decreased for a SRW door sticker. SRW's do not have door stickers based on engineer ratings, for years SRW's stopped at 9,900 for DOT reasons not for engineering reasons.

 

[RustyJC]

Well, let's look at what the law says. From the Texas Transportation Code, Section 522.003, Definitions (added emphasis mine):

(17) "Gross combination weight rating" means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination or articulated vehicle or, if the manufacturer has not specified a value, the sum of the gross vehicle weight rating of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit or units and any load on a towed unit.

(18) "Gross vehicle weight rating" means the value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a single vehicle.

As is clearly defined above, these manufacturer-established values will govern in a tort action. It has nothing to do with tire sidewall ratings or any other DOT enforcement methodology.

Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

Duplicate post

 

[Bohemian]

What is unsafe about operating withing design specs?

Nothing. What specs do you have that are not published? I will go with the published specs. GVWR, GCWR, GFAWR, GRAWR, Max Payload, etc. for the individual truck as manufactured. The only specs I actually know and don't need to guess.

 

[AH64ID]

Well, let's look at what the law says. From the Texas Transportation Code, Section 522.003, Definitions (added emphasis mine):



As is clearly defined above, these manufacturer-established values will govern in a tort action. It has nothing to do with tire sidewall ratings or any other DOT enforcement methodology.

Rusty

Those are definitions, and yes that is what they mean :-laf

Definitions are not laws, and those definitions pertain to commercial drivers license requirements not vehicle size and weight.

Here is the law on size weight... gross vehicle weight rating is not mentioned once in that entire code, not even under definitions. Manufacturer isn't mentioned either. What is mentioned appears to be the same as Idaho. Don't exceed 20,000lbs for a single axle and don't exceed sidewall ratings on tires.

As clearly stated in the law, and not the definitions for commercial drivers license, tort law does not apply.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.621.htm

Nothing. What specs do you have that are not published? I will go with the published specs. GVWR, GCWR, GFAWR, GRAWR, Max Payload, etc. for the individual truck as manufactured. The only specs I actually know and don't need to guess.

They are all published, you just have to know where to look.

Bounce part numbers on 3500 DRW and 2500's.

I won't personally exceed any published limit I can find. My personal limits are

FAWR: 5,200lbs based on OEM rating, the axle in my 2005 isn't rated higher anywhere. Unkown if the limit is the axle, suspension, BJ's, wheel bearings, etc... this, unfortunately, is very easy to exceed but usually by no more than 10%. Easiest when bed is empty and cab is full.
RAWR: 9,000lns based on wheel/tire combo. Axle is rated for 10,912 by AAM with a max capacity of 9,350lbs by Dodge on my frame/suspension. AAM states SRW and DRW configs have same ratings, but DRW gets a different outer wheel bearing for the added leverage of the wider/heavier tire/wheel combo. The different bearing has the same weight rating. Both inner/outer bearings are stronger in Dodge 11.5's than in GM 11.5's.
GVWR: 12,200lbs max rating my frame/brakes/steering/suspension/etc received. It could be stronger (many, many, many DRW's owners exceed this limit since they have a 9,350lbs RAWR and want to use it for campers and 5ers).

GCWR: This is doesn't get me too hot and bothered. It's mainly based on the ability to accelerate and maintain speed, well almost completely based on that. I know what Cummins published for max coolant temps for my 190° thermostat are, and I am not running that hot. Cummins limits are lower than the idiot light illuminates by 20-25°. I also don't need to exceed my published GCWR often, and have only done it once or twice.

Those are all based on mostly readily available information and knowledge of common components, so it's not a guess.