3rd Gen engine runaway

[Blakers]

I think the exhaust brake would prevent it from doing any damage. Then you could stall it in gear.

 

[bighammer]

I think the brake restricts air in by restricting air out. Not enough air for full combustion = Black smoke.



I would think a shutoff even with the air filter would be easy to make. I've seen the sort of crude but effective cable-operated rain cap setups on some of the competition trucks. Tough to do with a filter though. I have a couple ideas for how to do it and keep the filter line.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

UPDATE?

Any updates Chris??



I think the exhaust brake is a great idea, should keep RPM in check and buy you some time to hit it with the CO2 extinguisher.



Vaughn

 

[MO'Donnell]

Originally posted by EMD Diesel Power

CO2 is the best bet for extinguishing a runaway diesel.....



Halon is NOT recommended for running/runaway diesel situations..... it is good for engine ROOM/dead engine fires though. When Halon gets sucked thru a runaway diesel, it actually forms mustard gas or something like that in the exhaust.



Jeff

If I remember my fire science correctly, Halon produces Phosgene gas when burned/exposed to high temps - one of the reasons it was always stated to evacuate any comp. /electrical room BEFORE the gas discharged, and allow time for the gas to dissipate before re-entering the room.

 

[SMorneau]

I dont know how much CO2 it would take to stop a runaway, but you can get CO2 fire suppression kits from Summit that could easily be adapted to the intake system. The are triggered with a switch and the racers use them.



I like the manually operated valve approach better because I would have a shutoff if my fuel pump solenoid ever quit. But the CO2 bottle under the hood would be a nice conversation piece.

 

[Alaskaskiff]

One of the guys with a 2G 24v truck has that intake air shutoff valve because he works in the oil fields as discussed above. He calls his truck the silver cloud. Jason Hansen or something like that?

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by Alaskaskiff

One of the guys with a 2G 24v truck has that intake air shutoff valve because he works in the oil fields as discussed above. He calls his truck the silver cloud. Jason Hansen or something like that?

Yes, all the oil field engines have intake shut offs because there's a chance of picking up a cloud of gas while drilling. It's a good idea to also put that on his truck.

 

[jManz]

Originally posted by WM-300

The oil fields have requirements that all diesels have air shut off for emergency stop, the only way to shut down a diesel under any condition.



Paul [/B]

These types of emergency shut down systems are very common on most Fire Trucks. We use them in the event the apparatus responds to a hazardous materials release and is enveloped in some sort of ignitable vapor cloud.



They are spring loaded and activated manually inside the cab or by preset over-speed sensor. Once the system activates, a clapper valve inside the air intake system closes and restricts air flow into the engine. Once the valve is closed, it has to be removed from the hazard and reset manually. From what I understand once the system triggers, the engine has to be checked for leaks in the air intake system due to the extreme vacuum the system experiences.



A runaway engine on a fire truck is not only expensive to fix but life threatening to the fire fighters. Most fire pumps are either PTO or transmission output driven. An over-speed of the engine has the potential to produce water pressure exceeding 600PSI on a fire hose! Thats a ride an amusement park could only dream about

 

[RobertBolinger]

Originally posted by jManz

An over-speed of the engine has the potential to produce water pressure exceeding 600PSI on a fire hose! Thats a ride an amusement park could only dream about

That would be like trying to hold onto a rocket! Whoa!



If you could control it it would make a nice pressure washer!



of course when that hose and or pump blew it would be ugly!

 

[MO'Donnell]

Originally posted by jManz

An over-speed of the engine has the potential to produce water pressure exceeding 600PSI on a fire hose! Thats a ride an amusement park could only dream about

As a former fire fighter (volunteer), I don't even want to THINK about that - it would be no amusement park ride!

 

[HALLAS]

I just had it happen on my 1996 12v from and brand new holset 55 my clucth came through bell housing and motor is locked up I am going to tear it down this weekend Did you tear yours down yet ?????

 

[Berrigan]

Didnt the first gens have a spring loaded air shut down on them? I remember my first gen had an under hood shut down, but I dont remember if it shut off fuel or air

 

[krs]

i'm thinking about how to put a butterfly in the intake horn. Shouldn't be difficult just above the heaters, and there's solid material to mount a cable. Just like a manual choke in a carburator. No?

 

[EMD Diesel Power]

Originally posted by MO'Donnell

If I remember my fire science correctly, Halon produces Phosgene gas when burned/exposed to high temps - one of the reasons it was always stated to evacuate any comp. /electrical room BEFORE the gas discharged, and allow time for the gas to dissipate before re-entering the room.

Thats the gas that I remember reading about... . I knew it was something not real good for survival.

 

[Crunch]

What the Owner's Manual sez...

Originally posted by ChrisRyan Has anyone ever heard of a 3rd gen truck running away and refusing to shut off.

On page 231 of the Owner's Manual there is a section on engine runaway. Not much to it, but here's the full text:



Dodge 2003 Ram Truck Diesel P. 231

"ENGINE RUNAWAY

WARNING!



In case of engine runaway due to flammable fumes from gasoline spills or turbocharger oil leaks being sucked into the engine do the following to help avoid personal injury and/or vehicle damage:



1. Shut off engine switch.



2. Using a CO2 or dry chemical type fire extinguisher, direct the spray from the fire extinguisher into the grille on the passenger side so that the spray enters the engine air take.



The inlet for the engine air intake is located behind the passenger side headlamp and receives through the grille. "

 

[DMC]

We have a fire suppresion system in the engine room on the Tugboat. And it employs 8 160lb bottles of Co2. I think I remember something about Halon being banned for use in all new fire suppresion systems. Phosgene Gas is very bad stuff even in small quatities, at least that is what the guy that inspects our system each year has said.



I think a simple approach to this problem would be a damper/flap similar to the ones on the 71 series Detriots. If this overspeed condition isn't stopped in a period that can be measured in seconds, a major overhaul will be in order anyway. I think a manual release of 10lb bottle directly into the intake stream would be sufficient.



Sorry to hear of you guys very costly troubles.



Don

 

[nickleinonen]

...

2. Using a CO2 or dry chemical type fire extinguisher...

the co2 is ok, you could have a useable engine when you fix the problem. the dry chemical requires a full tear down then eh... fills the engine with that blasted powder

 

[Crunch]

Originally posted by nickleinonen

the co2 is ok, you could have a useable engine when you fix the problem. the dry chemical requires a full tear down then eh... fills the engine with that blasted powder

I agree. In reading what was in the Owner's Manual I got the impression that they were far more concerned with preventing personal injury (which could result in an interruption of truck payments) than preventing damage to the engine.



Corporate lawyers. Gotta love `em.

 

[Sled Puller]

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I Maybe get fancy with it and have it kick in automatically at 3800 RPM or something.



Vaughn

Shoot Vaughn, I ain't even got the clutch out yet at 3800!! LOL

 

[ChrisRyan]

Quick update on my truck.



I 've got her all torn down and the only thing I've seen wrong with it is four bent valves. I went ahead and tore it all the way down just to check it out and I think everything else looks good except the pistons but I think their damage is from pieces off of the HX-40.

4 bent valves

new pistons and rings

new bearings since I'm in there anyway



I'd say thats pretty lucky for a stock motor turning at least 4750 rpms(thats the last reading in the computer ):--)



I've been out of town alot so maybe I will get it back together next week and start making some smoke again. Oo. Oo. Oo.



Chris