4-Wheel ABS is Useless!!!

[RKohn]

Went to town today, roads were lightly snow covered, driving 35mph, light changed, held pedal to floor, and rolled clear into the intersection. Unfortunately, that's the way it's supposed to work. The purpose of ABS is to not lock the wheels so you can "maintain control", but what good is control if you can't stop. #ad


Went to a snow covered school parking lot to test a theory. Made 3 runs @ 30mph(woulda gone faster, but it's a small parking lot)using each method. Intent is to stop as fast as possible. The results of my SOP stop test:

1. Using ABS per owner's manual (push and hold pedal down) to establish a baseline. Smooth, but gee it takes a long way to stop(No I didn't measure how many feet, I didn't have a tape and it was still snowing out, so I used the parking lot lines as a reference).

2. Same as #1, but downshift and dump the clutch. Jerky, but stopped a half car length shorter and you have to think about it.

3. Pulled the fuse. Mashed the pedal. Brakes locked up, the heavy beast grabbed pavement. 2 full car lenghts shorter. #ad
Only downside, no speedo with fuse pulled.

It might work good in a little sports car, but it has no place on a truck. IMHO

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Y2K Red Stealth Sport 2500 4X4 QC SLT+, 5-spd, 3. 54 LotsaSpinDiff, 265-75-16 LTX's (Don't Michelins ever wear out?), DC's dead cow/vinyl interior and 4-wheel don't stop anti-lock brakes, Roll-N-Lock bedcover. What silencer ring? (More fun than my 98 SST)

[This message has been edited by RKohn (edited 03-25-2001). ]

 

[John Dimartino]

I think 4wABS varies form vehicle to vehicle,In mY 94 Chrysler town and country-you hardly know its thereIve had it kick in about 5 times in 4 yrs,excellent system,stops quick every time-now my 96 Ram-was adifferent story-it never worked 1/2 as good a s the minivans,I found it oversensitive,and overreacted to a one wheel skid,pedal goes to floor when one whel locks up-My 95 S10 blazer has the aboslute woerst 4 WABS Ive ever used,it comes on on dry roads,no lockup,just starts ratcheting,will not stop worth a darn,when activated. In snow they all lockup first,vehicle gets all sideways,then they kick in 1/2 way thru the slide ,so you dont trust them at all.

 

[Big MAK]

fwiw I agree with you completely rkohn. Maybe some of my lengthy reviews of ABS are in the old posts somewhere so I won't reiterate them here. 4W abs is totally unpredictable and only has value on dry sticky roads -- on which you can stop better with all wheels locked. Yeah, you can't steer with the wheels locked. If you need to steer to avoid the collision you're following too close.

On any kind of slippery surface the 4w abs is a joke. Ever notice that on the 4w abs tests they drive through water, then dry pavement, then "test" it on dry pavement? Very funny. I guess those abs engineers think the world is full of miniature little storm clouds leaving 2 and 3 foot swathes of wet road followed by several miles of dry road.

Your abs works better then mine though. It won't engage at all on slippery surfaces (all six wheels lock) and on dry road all six wheels lock most of the time. I have pictures of a skid about 30 feet long on dry pavement. The only time the abs engages is when the wheels leave the ground going over bumps on a hard stop. Then it's kiss your butt goodbye due to an abs version of brake failure -- brakes releasing again and again over the bumps until no brakes.

My conclusion stating my well tested opinion over the last several years then comparing to other equally well tested opinions praising abs is it's completely unpredictable in some vehicles -- and works great in others.

End result: do what rkhon did and take your rig somewhere safe then test it out so you can determine how best to drive your's safely.


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Big MAK
98. 5 ISB 5spd 4x4 Quad Cab 3500, 275s and Original PowerMax
A "WARRANTY FREE" ZONE
https://www.turbodieseltrucks.com

 

[Randy J]

Because 4 wheel ABS wasn't helping prevent accidents like everyone thought it would, some insurance companies quit giving a discount for it. You need to remember however, ABS is not to help you stop, but to keep from going into an uncontrolable skid. Theory is if the wheels don't lock up, you can stir around the obstacle. You still need to allow for ample stopping distance given the driving conditions.

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Randy Jones, San Antonio, TX, rdj@gvtc.com, 98 1/2 QC, 4X4, American Racing BAJA's, 285/75/16, Amsoil throughout, Superstar 3000 export radio, Firestik antenna with fender mount, Fire-ring cable, Mag-Hytec Deep transmission pan

2000 VW Jetta TDI, auto, 45 mpg average

 

[RKohn]

Did it again tonight. Overly sensative is an understatement.

redram,

Usually I drive about 80, but they frown on that in town. Turning isn't always an option. Trade? I'd rather have it work. Others do, ours don't.


John Dimartino,

You're right. In my wife's T&C it's fantastic.


Mark,

You know the engineers never tested it on washboard roads either. We all know they do "real world" testing. We just can't figure out what world they live on. #ad


Randy,

It all looks good on the drawing boards. When Mercedes first started using ABS, they had to put out a tech bulletin telling mechanics not to brake torque cars equipped with it. Seems when they tried to, the system sensed a skid and released the brakes and sent the cars through the shop wall. I saw one of the walls. #ad


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Y2K Red Stealth Sport 2500 4X4 QC SLT+, 5-spd, 3. 54 LotsaSpinDiff, 265-75-16 LTX's (Don't Michelins ever wear out?), DC's dead cow/vinyl interior and 4-wheel don't stop anti-lock brakes, Roll-N-Lock bedcover. What silencer ring? (More fun than my 98 SST)

 

[redram]

I guess you've right, IF you only drive 30 mph, in light snow with traction under neath (not intermittent ice) and in a straight line. Oh yeah, you also never drive any faster than 30 mph.

ABS has porven to be a better system than most driver's are capable of doing. Maybe you have instinctive 'Mario Andretti' skills that you did not know of.

I'll trade you my rear wheel abs only for your 4 wheel system even up if you're that disatisfied.

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[rmrc]

I also share the opinion that ABS, at least for me, is more of a hinderence than helpfull. I've been driving a long time and have been in many situations where emegency braking came into play. If stopping distance is compromized by the addition of ABS, I would have been in at least two accidents that I can recall where I locked my brakes and was able to avoid a collision. Just my opinion.

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No truck at present. Waiting to see what the 2003 model year has to offer in the Ram 2500.

 

[LandShark]

I also have the 4 wheel ABS and consider it worse than useless. I'm quite sure that it adds about 30% to stopping distance in wet, icy or washboard conditions. Even in dry conditions it adds distance to a 'panic' stop. Sure, it's nice to be able to steer when braking, but the few times I've had to stop quick, I've had to stay in my lane!! Sometimes it just feels like the brakes give up half way into a stop. I had the dealer check the brakes (when new) and the service advisor said it wasn't right but there wasn't anything they could do because everything checked out OK. For years I felt that DC would do a recall on the ABS but after reading about other chronic problems (steering, throttle cables, etc. ) I've given up hope that this truck will ever have a good ABS.

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1995 2500 SLT Club 4x4, auto, 3. 54, 3300 pound Elkhorn slide in camper, AirLift air springs, Ricka dual wheel adapters (used only with the camper on), K&N, DC tow hooks, Rancho RS9000, Hellwig rear sway bar.
110,000 miles and counting.

[This message has been edited by LandShark (edited 03-26-2001). ]

 

[jwgary]

If you remember from high school physics, static friction is stronger than kinetic friction. It is better to have a tire that is stopped on the road instead of sliding. How well the computer can control the braking to ensure that the tires don't slip is another story. I have been satisfied with mine when I almost hit someone in a snow-covered parking lot.

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B I G O R A N G E AMBER-FIRE (BURNT ORANGE) / BRITE SILVER 2001(. 5), 2500, SLT, Q-CAB 4x4, SWB, AUTO, 3. 55, LSD, TOWING PACKAGE
ADD-ON'S: LINE-X, 1/4" STEEL LONGHORN HITCH COVER, WESTIN NERF BARS, YELLOW-TOP OPTIMAS

 

[Ram_Kowboy]

You know I got to thinking about this post last night. And started to wonder if NASCAR has ever done any testing with Anti-lock brakes. You know as soon as those tires start sliding the car heads right for the wall ( or wherever the centrifical force happens to send it ). Or in many other cases a car will go out of control and several cars behind the first will lose control trying to get around that car. If ever there was a good application for Anti-lock brakes seems like NASCAR would be it.

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98 Properly Valved 4x4 SWB QC ISB A/T Metallic Red w/ tan cloth interior, DC nerf bars, DC two piece mud-flaps, 275 h. p. injectors, Monroe Gas Magnums, Armor Tuff spray in bed liner, Goodyear Wrangler ATS 285/75r/16, BD Heavy Duty Valve body. Walker 21468 thru flow muffler,Cobra 29 NWST CB. American Racing Wheels. Power Edge EZ control module,Tuff Country 2" Leveling System, Draw-Tite Front Mount Receiver.

 

[Expat]

Nascar and other racers don't use ABS because ABS is NOT more effective than the best drivers. The fact is, however, almost none of us are Nascar-quality drivers. Also, race car drivers know the tracks they're on and can be pretty sure a little old lady in an olive green '72 Dodge Dart won't pull out in front of them without warning...

On the whole, I think ABS is a good thing for most drivers --who, let's face it, aren't very good at all. IMHO, it probably isn't better than putting the same money into a good high speed driving course, but how many of us do those? I think the real problem is that the manufacturers hyped the system far too much to begin with and refused to admit that there were situations in which the ABS might be a disadvantage.

 

[Texasdeere]

Just my opinion:

I think ABS is a big waste of time and money
that could have been used elsewere on our trucks.

 

[rmrc]

As my signature states, I don't have my truck at present. For future reference, how do you disconnect the ABS? Is it as simple as pulling a fuse? This will probably be one of my first actions with my truck.

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No truck at present. Waiting to see what the 2003 model year has to offer in the Ram 2500.

 

[HDH]

ABS is still an Option Right?. It was when I bought my Ram. I Dont know if its true now, But when I Bought my 98. 5 CTD, I ordered it Without ABS. The Salesman Said "you need ABS, It makes for Safer Driving", I turn around and said to Him, I want to drive the Truck, I dont want the Truck Driving Me, IMO, ABS Is leading people into losing their ability to operate a vehicle. ABS Take away from the the operators Sence's.
Doug.

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1998. 5,2500,ISB,Auto,CC,4x4,4. 10's,Suregrip,White Sport,Isspro Boost & Pyro,275hp Injectors,VA,PS Boost Module,DTT Valve Body,BD Pressure Lock,Mopar Perf Alum transmission Pan,16x8 Eagles,285/75/16 Bridgestone MT's,Xenon Flairs,2. 5" Skyjacker Lift,Stockland Seibring Shell. Uniden HR2510 Ham/CB

[This message has been edited by DieselRam (edited 03-27-2001). ]

 

[Timinator]

As far as I know, RWAL is standard. If you don't order 4 wheel ABS, you get RWAL.

 

[Joe G.]

Before I bought my '95 I asked a friend who has a brake and front end shop about ABS. He said don't waste my money on it. So I just have the standard RWAL which I suspect is not working. No pedal pulse for a couple of years now for a hard stop. That suits me just fine.

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Joe George
Eureka, CA

'95 2500 CC auto 4X4,3. 54,Combo EGT/boost guage,custom switch panel,PacBrake,TST #5,Automatic motorhome steps on both sides,Foldacover hard bed cover,Cummins chrome kit,Black steel grill guard,Front hitch receiver

 

[Pat_in_Utah]

I just ordered a 2001 2500. The 2500 and 3500 now come with standard 4 wheel disk ABS! Kinda mixed feelings on this. Great to have 4 wheel disk breaks, but bad to have ABS.

I agree ABS may be good for the general public, but I don't want to sacrifice stopping distance for drivibility thru skidding. I have skidded in near accidents before with my old standard brakes. In a few near misses, I have acted like the ABS myself - SKID, SWERVE, SKID. I only needed a few feet to swerve, but needed the stopping power more.

Now if I can get used to not pumping the brakes :O


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(on order) 2001. 9 White Sport RAM 2500HD 4X4 QC LB 3. 54 LSD Cummins Auto

 

[rickhans]

I was told that rear wheel anti-lock is required on pickups, that is why you can't get one without it.

I also have a '96 Blazer 4x4 with 4 wheel abs. We have had 2 wrecks which I attribute to the ABS. The first was when a car ran a stop sign and I broad sided him because I could not get it to stop. I complained to my dealer, they test drove it and said it is working normally, only my imagination since it was my first one with ABS.

The 1 1/2 year later in the rain, my wife makes a panic stop because a car pulls out, the Blazer veers to the left, gets rear ended by car in left lane and pushes her into car in front in right lane. She got charged for the accident and we are still paying a higher premium.

After the wreck, I read that GM was recalling the ABS for two problems haveing to do with stopping distance and occasional failure which would cause it to pull to the side in a panic stop. I am still trying to get my insurance company to subrogate the claim and collect from GM, as some others have done, but I am told that because we did not claim failure of the ABS at the time of the accident, that it is too late. The problem is, we had no clue that the ABS caused the accident at that time becuase GM had not issued any warnings at that time.


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98. 5 24V QC 4x4 SB 3:54 5sp

 

[Ram_Kowboy]

When the ABS light is on the system is disabled. I think Steve's ideas for disabling the system would be easy enough. I couple of other ideas though... If any sensor in the system is not operational, it will trigger the ABS light and disable the system. Seems simple to remove a sensor from a wheel or just bend it away from the wheel so it cannot measure wheel speed and you will get a dash light. Then remove the dash light as Steve suggested.

My $. 02 on ABS. There are situations where ABS would be helpful and situations where ABS would be a disadvantage. Just like passenger side air bags. My luck would be, If I needed it, I would have it disabled. If I would be better off without it, it would work perfectly. Comes down to your confidence about your driving skills I guess. Or perhaps just your luck.

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98 Properly Valved 4x4 SWB QC ISB A/T Metallic Red w/ tan cloth interior, DC nerf bars, DC two piece mud-flaps, 275 h. p. injectors, Monroe Gas Magnums, Armor Tuff spray in bed liner, Goodyear Wrangler ATS 285/75r/16, BD Heavy Duty Valve body. Walker 21468 thru flow muffler,Cobra 29 NWST CB. American Racing Wheels. Power Edge EZ control module,Tuff Country 2" Leveling System, Draw-Tite Front Mount Receiver.

 

[HDH]

Originally posted by Tim Barlow:
As far as I know, RWAL is standard. If you don't order 4 wheel ABS, you get RWAL.

Thats True,, But on the 2001's,I think ABS is Standard. I think!.
Doug.