48 RE trans advice needed

[RonD]

My truck is at 65000 miles, still under the 7/70 warrentee. I was going to install a shift kit in it today, so when I removed the pan, the fluid is burnt, there is black stuff, and some metal, a lot of trash in the pan. The trans went out 4 months ago when I was on the road, it was re built then at a Dodge Dealer. This was 7000 miles ago, now the trans is gone again. My question is, if I let my local Dealer rebuild it again, can I add the shift kit, then and expect it to hold up?, I also am going to bump the power up about 60 hp with a Smarty, but as of now the truck is stock. My other options are just but an aftermarket high end built transmission, or maybe see if Dodge will credit me for something. Any ideas are welcome, thanks Ron

 

[fox]

Yes take it too the dealer to show them that it is failing. Let them do the rebuild and find the cause. This should all be free. Then when you get it back do the shift kit. Make sure they clean out the cooler lines, maybe remove the check ball in it. This can contribute to a slow converter charge in the mornings but at least you know the cooler can flow.

 

[RonD]

I don't have a problem with my local Dealer rebuilding it again, it will be at no cost, my concern is if I do that, than add the shift kit, and bump the HP up about 60, where will I be in another 5000 miles, in other words will the trans be able to take it with the weight of the trailer ( I am combined at about 22000 pounds max), and I also am running a Pacbrake, they claim the converter will lock up with the Pacbrake, but this trans was not intended to have one, but I wonder if all this is going to be to much for this trans, and should I just pop for an aftermarket built trans and be done with it?, the Dealer rebuilt is free, new trans is a good guess $5000+, so there is something to look at.

 

[fox]

A fresh trans and the transgo kit will be fine. but I'm not sure about the pacbrake. Call the trans guys. Dtt, Goerends atc.

 

[HBarlow]

There is a reason why the transmission is burned up again. Your trailer is not heavy enough to wipe it out like that.

If you don't have an aftermarket torque converter lock up device installed along with the exhaust brake that is the reason your transmission is destroyed again. Your dealer service department must be clueless if they don't know and understand that and rebuild it again under warranty.

Dodge did not have the lock up capability to use an exhaust brake with the 48RE until model year 2006.

 

[RonD]

That is what I was thinking, but PacBrake says the PRXB exhaust Brake has the electronic controler to lock the torque converter when the brake is on, I think the 2006 transmission was updated for a bushing or somethig like that.

 

[RonD]

UPDATE!, I was on the phone for a few hours today with Jim at Pacific Brake talking with him about the PacBrake, and how this may have effected the transmission, and also Dave Goerend at Goerend Transmissions. In a nut shell between the two they gave me things to check, test and try to find out why the trans is shot, the outcome was the PacBrake is fine, all the testing basicly revieled the Dodge Dealer rebuild 6000 miles ago failed, I have ordered a Goerend trans, tripple disc torque converter, and a billit shaft, I think when this is done my towing and transmission problems are over , Both Jim, and Dave are the kind of people you want to do business with.

 

[cerberusiam]

That is what I was thinking, but PacBrake says the PRXB exhaust Brake has the electronic controler to lock the torque converter when the brake is on, I think the 2006 transmission was updated for a bushing or somethig like that.

Locking the TC is the easy part, ramping TV pressure to hold the gears and the line pressure high is wht most of them fail at. With the APPS at rest this drops the gov pressure which in turn drops line pressure to all the clutches, you can burn up a trans simply on coast with an EB and incorrect application to the trans.



The rebuild should allow the EB to work correctly and not slip things but definitely check and see that the TV pressure is addressed on activation.

 

[RonD]

Dave Goering had me do a couple tests, 1st connect a test gauge to the center test port on the pass side of the trans, check pressure at stop, then at full throttle. The reason is he wanted me to see the the TV pressure was climbing with throttle, it was 30 at idle, and I didn't have much of a test street, I punched it and could only get 75 pounds pressure (without lockup), that concerned him some, I am going to retest Monday. There is appearently some plastic motor with gears that is attached to the trans that advances the TV, I don't know the name of it, the second test was to see what happens with TQ lockup, and EB engaugement, I installed the test gauge into a port on the trans cooler discharge line and drove the truck, the test showed about 30 pounds at very light throttle, and at full throttle would also jump to about 75-80 pounds, back to light cruse it would read about 30 pounds, when the TQ locked it would spike and hold 80 pounds, when the EB came on it would also go to 80 pounds and hold, I think that part is OK, I still am not happy with the first test. Dave told me the TV advance motor, or whatever it's called is plastic, and are known for failure, if it's bad this may be why I have had transmission failurers, and I will replace the part before the new one goes in, I wonder if the valve body could just be bad causing the low pressure, more testing, and phone calls I guess.

 

[cerberusiam]

You tested line pressure with that location, and yes that is a concern at 30 psi. Stock pressures should be 50-55 at idle. The 80 at lockup is not bad but

should be more than that, 90-95 would be better. You are running a stock trans and TC, correct?



If your using the stock TC and GCVW at 22k, the 80 psi is not enough to hold the weight. You did not say at what rpm and speed that 80 psi was but it will need to hold that pressure all the way down to 1600-1700 rpms if you want to use the EB to its fullest. At initial lockup is fine but it is what happens as you slow that causes the problems. This is where the biggest problem with the 05 units are as the TV control is now a motor instead of a cable that you could add something to.



The gov pressure port is the rear most and highest on the passenger side. This one should be 0-5 psi at an idle and max out around 55 psi. By the time you hit 35 mph you should all the gov pressure in then it will drop and climb again on the shift. This will tell you if the TTVC motor is working correctly.



This one is tricky as the ECU monitors the TTVC motor for position and will throw codes if it is too high too long. It needs to be held as high as possible on EB engage to hold the gears and rpm's up.



The reason why most of us that do an EB just ramp the line pressure and make sure the TC stays locked, and, the main reason Dodge won't warranty the EB on the 05 trucks. As a comparison here is what I run for pressures from memory:



Line Pressure Idle - 85-90 psi



Line Pressure WOT: 205-210 psi



Line pressure TC locked cruising: 160-180 psi





This should hold with an EB quite well when I get it installed plus I don't worry about the gov pressure and controlling it. I am towing at around 450 hp/950 TQ and even with a lockup switch I have not yet been able to slip the TC or clutches.



Don't know if you have the test port locations but here they are. Hope you get it figured out.



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[RonD]

The first test I did was in port 3, I am going to redo all the tests tomorrow, or Monday and will post all the infor a little better, including speeds, and RPM. When I did test the EB on the trans cooler discharge line, my speed was about 45mph, and the pressure held all the way down, my bid concern is the TTVC motor, if thats bad so goes the new trans, thanks for the port locations, I didn't have that, and yes the TC and trans I now have is stock.

 

[cerberusiam]

Here are the pressure tests from the FSM. Might help you get a feel for what to look for.



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[RonD]

I am going to do this tomorrow, then will post the results, I am thinking of a good speed, the area I am in I should be able to do 50 mph for a mile, I for sure don't have a dyno, I do have a 2 post lift, and only one 300psi gauge, thanks for the info.

 

[RonD]

I just completed test #1, this would be to see if the TV is advancing, I connected the test gauge to port #2 for governor pressure, at idel it is 0 psi, on a easy light acceleration it bounces between 20 & 30 psi at about 15mph at 35 mph the reading is 50-55. on a downhill coast 25 mph 800 rpm it reads 30-40 psi, getting onto the Freeway I punched it 2000 rpm, 50 mph 110 psi, I think i was in second gear, slight uphill, at a 60 mph cruse, 1700 rpm 4th gear TC locked, still slight uphill climb 100 psi, down hill decent 62mph 1700 in TH mode, with EB engauged 75 psi, with EB engauged 50 mph 1400 rpm 75 psi also, so that is the test for that part, I don't know what the numbers mean, but the dial is moving, I will now go connect the gauge to port #3 the Accumulator port and go do another test drive to see what that shows.

 

[RonD]

I just completed test #2, this was with a test gauge in port #3 the Accumulator port. at idle it is 60 psi in drive. WOT first and second gears, 130-135 psi, cruising TC locked 75 psi at about 45mph, with the EB turned on at 62 mph long down hill decent, 1750 rpm was 80 psi, it holds the 80 psi all the way down to 1200 rpm and 45 mph, when I turned it off. I think the reason the trans is slipping is the EB killed it because the trans lacks pressure. I wonder if the slipping trans is now in itself causing low pressure ?.

 

[cerberusiam]

Those pressures don't sound bad for a stock transmission. If you fluid was bad I suspect the stock TC and stock pressures are simply not enough to handle the weight you are towing.



Once you add a triple disk TC and shift kit I think your problems will be done. Adding the billet input with the triple is good idea also. With the Extra pressure of a VB or shift kit careful with the TH as the shift to OD is rather violent under a load.

 

[RonD]

I am sure the transmission builder has a check list, but I for sure am going to run a full set of numbers on the pressurers, thanks for the help, Ron

 

[RonD]

I thought I would post an update on this post I made last September. First the advise I got from Jim at Pacific Brake, and Cerberusiam were dead on correct. I went ahead and installed a Goering 48RE trans, with the triple disc converter, and the billet input shaft, I already had the deep pan, I also used a Smarty and set the power levels up to #3. Since the install I have now 10000 miles on the setup, about 80% is towing, my rig weighs at 22500 pounds combined, and I have pulled a lot of hills. The trans is fantastic, I did a service at the 10000 mile point just to see what was inside, clean fluid, no metal, very clean inside, the temps on the engine EGT never get over 1350, and that is only for maybe 15 seconds at the most, the trans temps at the pan never get over 125 degrees, most of the time there at 110, all I can say I at last have a real towing vehicle, this is a great package with the Pacbrake, and Goering trans, and the Smarty power.

 

[cerberusiam]

I love it when a plan comes together.



Enjoy.

 

[MChrist]

Ditto. Same transmission mods on my '06 and it was some of the best money spent!! Love my Goerend trans!!