48RE + Exhaust Brake: Current Status

[RMcCulloch]

You're under the false impression that the salescritters work for D/C.



You're under the false impression that an unrecorded verbal statement means something where there's a written contract. [Sales contract and Warranty contract in this case. ]



WTF - the dealership's Service Manager signed off on the installation of a Jacobs Exhaust Brake on MY truck while it was still in transit.



Since those two recalls were 6 months before the discovery of the issue with the thrust washer would you have simply parked the truck until such time as you might possibly wangle a modified $6 washer as a part of a replacement transmission?



FWIW, in 12K miles of towing at a GCW of 23K, I haven't had any problem and, yes, the hoses were checked and found to be quite alright as were the PCM connectors.

 

[LightmanE300]

RM, are you saying you have a 48re with an EB and haven't had problems in 12k miles? Is the trans stock, what kind of ebrake?

 

[RMcCulloch]

RM, are you saying you have a 48re with an EB and haven't had problems in 12k miles? Is the trans stock, what kind of ebrake?

Not exactly: that's 12K miles of towing - 21K total so far. :-laf



If you go back far enough in this thread, you'll find the details on just how I wound up with one.



Yes, the truck is bone stock, just like the dealer delivered it to me [except for the EasyRider Hitch of course] including the Jacobs Exhaust Brake.



If, in the future, I end up having problems with the 48RE AND warranty coverage is denied [in spite of the assurances made by the dealership to the contrary] then I'm prepared to make that "famous" call to DTT, followed by a bit of "hefty" bombing.

 

[LightmanE300]

Has anyone had a problem yet that has said forget the warranty, and installed an EB on a 48RE?



I may follow RM's example of putting one on and if problems arise go to a beefy aftermarket trans setup. Of course then the engine would need some HP as well =]

 

[RFogarty]

You're under the false impression that the salescritters work for D/C. You're under the false impression that an unrecorded verbal statement means something where there's a written contract. [Sales contract and Warranty contract in this case. ]

I'm not working under any kind of an impression. I'm sighting the representation made by an agent of DC as to the suitability of a particular equipment setup sold by DC. I'm not going to get into a long winded debate about verbal vs. written claims. I worked in the real estate industry, and I've seen the gamut of arbitrations and lawsuits based on all manners of mis-representation, errors, and ommissions, both written and verbal with winners and losers on both sides of the suit. My point was that if there has been a consistant pattern of sales claims that the 48RE on the '03 and '04 models would not have the warranty nullified with the installation of an EB, than I still believe that DC should step up to the plate and cover these transmissions. Will they? Probably not. Is something like this cannon fodder for the sue crazy class action boys. You bet. Am I going to sit around and wait for them to get it straightened out before I install an EB? Not a chance. I'll start getting my ducks lined up in a row on a good after market upgrade.

Since those two recalls were 6 months before the discovery of the issue with the thrust washer would you have simply parked the truck until such time as you might possibly wangle a modified $6 washer as a part of a replacement transmission?

If you're referring to the recalls I mentioned in my original post, the recall repairs were performed 3 1/2 weeks ago. I'll go back through the postings to refresh my memory, but I think the washer issue predates this recall repair on my truck by a substantial amount of time. That is the reason I made mention of being frustrated that I didn't find out about the issue of the washer before they tore the trans apart so I could discuss working out a deal concerning a replacement washer.

FWIW, in 12K miles of towing at a GCW of 23K, I haven't had any problem and, yes, the hoses were checked and found to be quite alright as were the PCM connectors.

My problem wasn't just in the hoses, it involved the block mounted trans fluid cooler. Mine was cracked, and that triggered the major repairs to the trans. It's good news to hear that you have had no problems with the trans so far. I am going to install the EB and use up whatever life is left in the trans and get prepared to upgrade with a good aftermarket trans company. Thanks for your input.

 

[JCotte]

OK guys

It has been too quiet in here for too long.

Carlton, any news from the test results yet? Can we 48RE 325/600 2004. 5 owners do an EB yet?

 

[LightmanE300]

Jcotte - too long is a relative phrase - we 03-04 48RE owners were promised compatibility and we are still waiting. I'm losing faith.

 

[Carlton Bale]

OK guys

It has been too quiet in here for too long.

Carlton, any news from the test results yet? Can we 48RE 325/600 2004. 5 owners do an EB yet?

The dyno testing is going on now and we're half way through the first vehicle test. Unfortunately, the test truck had an issue unrelated to the brake and was down all of last week. There are three total vehicle tests and we'll run one right after the other (just swap the trans and then keep going). Each vehicle test is 12,000 miles with the exhaust brake on 100% of the time. . . it's an interesting setup! I'll see if I can post some pictures because it's a strange site to see.

 

[LightmanE300]

Carlton - sounds like you guys are making progress. I'm nervous to even ask - but HONESTLY, are you guys working on any solutions for 03-04 48re owners or is the fix only being developed for the newer models?

 

[Carlton Bale]

Carlton - sounds like you guys are making progress. I'm nervous to even ask - but HONESTLY, are you guys working on any solutions for 03-04 48re owners or is the fix only being developed for the newer models?

This seems to be a delicate subject on the forum so I've tired to avoid it! Since you've asked directly, I'll recap the situation for the various model years:



MY03. 5: These vehicles have the JTEC transmission controller that is designed and programmed by Dodge. This controller is not capable of interfacing with the Cummins engine controller, which controllers the exhaust brake. So the "vehicle control system" as a whole doesn't have the capability to turn the brake on and off when the transmission needs it to be on or off. It is possible to install a brake on these vehicles but Dodge will not provide warranty approval because the brake could turn on when the trans isn't ready and there is no protection in this situation. Also, the trans doesn't have the revised thrust washer.



MY04 - MY04. 5 mid-year: With these vehicles, the Cummins module controls both the engine and the transmission. These vehicles will not be warranty-approved by Dodge because they do not have a revised thrust washer in a location that is loaded only during braking.



MY04. 5 mid-year and later: These vehicles have both the thrust washer in the transmission and the control system capability to protect the transmission. If the new software is released (assuming testing is successful), the brake could become warranty-approved by Dodge on these vehicles.



I know this isn't the answer everyone is looking for. Unfortunately, it is the best we can do given the hardware limitations and the very strict requirements of the Dodge warranty group. We're doing everything possible to support the older models where we can, but this will unfortunately fall short of the warranty group granting approval for all vehicles.



Please keep in mind that this is not an offical statement; I'm just stating my thoughts on the situation. Dodge controlls all aspects of the OEM warranty and until they release an official statement (which they have yet to do), this information should be treated simply as speculation!

 

[LightmanE300]

Thanks Carlton. I have an early 04 model, and it sounds like I may be able to have my software updated but still have the thrust washer problem. I've read it will be a ton of labor to change it out for the correct one - not sure if that's true or not.



My question is with the current not-updated thrust washer I have, will the trans fail quickly with an exhaust brake or what is the possible consequence?

 

[Carlton Bale]

My question is with the current not-updated thrust washer I have, will the trans fail quickly with an exhaust brake or what is the possible consequence?

Because of my affiliation, I can't give any type of official approval or statement. I would suggest searching the forums to find out what others who have installed brakes on 48REs with older thrust washers.

 

[p-Bar]

Carlton,

Do we have exact build date on the 4. 5 which has the thrust washer installed??



P. S. Thanks for the update

 

[Carlton Bale]

Carlton,

Do we have exact build date on the 4. 5 which has the thrust washer installed??

No, I still don't have that. We'll have to find out before releasing the new software. I'll keep pushing.

 

[FJfonda]

Carlton,

Thank you for the information!! As you may well know by now, you are the only one who is keeping us up to date on the progress. Keep it coming!!!



Chip

 

[RMcCulloch]

A simple question, Carlton: would the thrust washer in an '03. 5 tend to fail the same way when the transmission is manually downshifted as it does when the e-brake is activated?



FWIW, in 12K towing miles over "rolling hills" and flat country, I haven't had any difficulty as yet.

 

[MCrossley]

I am curious with the 03 not remaining in 3rd locked in the tow/haul mode has there been a software change to automatically downshift when the e-brake is active? What pin is the e-brake going to live off of on the ECM???

 

[Carlton Bale]

To load the thrust washer enough to cause wear, there needs to be an exhaust branke installed. Without a brake, there is no issue.

 

[LSchlekau]

Carlton-

So my 04. 5 3500 48RE was delivered in March, probably built in Jan, so it probably does not have the new thrust washer. IF one day I decide to get the EB and pay for the thrust washer installation, and get the software update, it would appear likely that my warranty would still be honored. I realize that this is not an area of your control, but does that seem like a reasonable expectation?

 

[Carlton Bale]

My guess is that the warranty will "turned on" for trucks starting with VIN XXXX and later. Explaining to the warranty system that you have an earlier truck but a newer thrust washer would be a difficult task to accomplish.



I would recommend closely comparing the cost you will spend to upgrade the thrust washer against the cost you might pay for any repair and make the decision based on that.